Hello Everyone,

Recently my brother and I were at in Home Depot and approached by a representative from Solar City. She old us a little about their program and wanted to see if a representative could come to our home to talk to us about an installation. I am seriously considering the installation to save on energy cost but I was wondering if anyone has experience with this company or any other solar companies in the South Jersey area? Is it a worth while investment and are their any catches to signing up for their service? We also have an attic which is loaded with years of junk does anyone know if they need to get into the attic to preform the install or can everything be done through the exterior of the home? Also does anyone know if its possible to setup a battery bank to store the collected power and use it in case of a power outage. I would greatly appreciate any advice.

I am in the process now. They are installing my panels starting Tuesday - we are using Direct Energy Solar. After some research and talking to a few different companies I am very pleased with the company as a whole and their process.

 

If you are going to do it, do it soon. The laws regulating incentives (ie: 30% tax refund) are expiring at the end of 2016.

 

They need to get into the attic to run wires if you want them hidden/protected inside.

 

I asked about the battery bank as well. I was told that battery tech just isn't quite there yet to make it feasible or cost effective - The juice ain't worth the squeeze. I was told to look into an natural gas generator as it will be cheaper with less maintenance in the long run. Just make sure it was compatible with the solar setup.

 

Have them come and give you their presentation. All it costs is an hour or so of your time.

If you receive some type of financial benefit then batteries are a non permitted installation. Same thing with building the system to generate more energy then a 12 month prior average.

Also keep in mind solar power to the inverters is disconnected when the grid is down, so a generator my still be a consideration.

 

If you pay for everything yourself the sky is the limit. Plenty of info on "off the grid" websites.

One thing to think about when getting solar.. HOW old is the roof? Roofing companies will not touch a roof until rails and panels are removed. you will have to call the solar company to remove the rails and  panels first, <not cheap >from what ive heard...

 

I wonder what size screws they use to install each rail n panel, hmmm

Make your solar decision not based on any ideas getting "credit" when you are not using the grid. The old "you are giving them your power". In Hawaii for example they are trying to introduce legislation that is excluding that. Homeowners are freaking. "I am generating excess power and I am still getting a bill!?!"

 

It is insane, why would you penalize self sufficient homes, but this is the society we live in.

 

I'm fascinated with Elon Musk power wall battery. If I had my dream house I would have that.

I have had a 10kw solar array on my roof for almost 10 years.  They can be a great investment, but I would urge you to avoid outfits like Solarcity or any of the companies that put these things in for "free".  Read the fine print, better yet have a lawyer read the fine print.  Many of these contracts are designed to screw you big time even though they sound great.  The way many of these work is that you agree to buy electricity from them at a discounted rate for 10, 20 or even 30 years.  The monthly payment is typically fixed, and the contracts say they will do any maintenance or repairs.  The problem is that even if the system is down you pay them.  Further, just like mortgages these contracts can be sold.  So, the company may go out of business and the system may stop working but you are still on the hook to some third party for your monthly payment with no recourse.  Further, it may be difficult or impossible to sell your home in the future as you need to find a buyer that will take over your contract.  Just be very careful.

 

That said, I think you are better off just finding a contractor to put one in for you and finance it yourself.  The problem with all these things is they rely on energy credits to provide most of the return.  A 10kw system on average generates about 1,000 KWH per month on an annual basis.  If you figure about 15 cents per kwh you will save roughly $1,800 on the basis of the electricity produced.  Actual savings will be lower as any excess is purchased by the utility at their wholesale price and any you buy at night is at retail pricing.  The real payback comes from the SRECs, and who knows how long they will last or what their price will be.  They just started when I put mine in 10 years ago and were about $200 a MW, so a 10kw system earned me about $2,400 a year in credits.  At one point they went up to over $600 a credit, then dropped to about $100 and are now around $225 or so.  Systems were much more expensive when I installed mine than they are today, but their was a NJ clean energy credit of 70% of the cost of the system back then.

 

As for the roof, there is no need for anything to be done inside the attic.  You should have a nearly new roof, or install a roof at the same time as you install the system so that you don't have to worry about it wearing out during the life of the system.  Also if you have two layers of shingles you will not be able to install a system without first putting just a single layer of shingles on the roof.  The good news is the panels actually protect the roof from wear from rain hitting it and from UV.  It also keeps your attic a little cooler as the sun hits the panels not directly on the roof.

 

As for batteries, forgetaboutit.  It is more cost effective to just install a natural gas generator in addition to the solar.  But the good news is there are now some inverters (Sunnyboy and perhaps others make them) that will give you an electrical outlet directly off the inverter that will provide some power during an outage to that outlet when the grid is down. 

I am in the process now. They are installing my panels starting Tuesday - we are using Direct Energy Solar. After some research and talking to a few different companies I am very pleased with the company as a whole and their process.

 

If you are going to do it, do it soon. The laws regulating incentives (ie: 30% tax refund) are expiring at the end of 2016.

 

They need to get into the attic to run wires if you want them hidden/protected inside.

 

I asked about the battery bank as well. I was told that battery tech just ust there yet to make it feasible. The juice ain't worth the squeeze. I was told to look into an natural gas generator as it will be cheaper with less maintenance in the long run.

 

Have them come and give you their presentation. All it costs is an hour or so of your time.

Interesting topic. Please keep us posted on your progress High Exposure.

I will make this very short.

 

Be very weary of larger companies like Solar City, Trinity, NRG. They are out to make money off you, not necessarily have you make money yourself. READ the fine print. Those companies take most of the benefits of solar and leave you with no electric bill. Read the fine print.

 

A smaller private company is IMO better because you can take advantage of SRECS, a lower or even no electric bill every month, and some can lock you into the $ per KWH you're paying now. Electricity is never decreasing and will always increase in price per KWH, so to be locked in to what you're roughly paying now and not have to worry about increases is very good.

 

Large companies (the ones i stated before) could care less about making your system look nice. They just want to get your roof array, inverters and electric equipment up and installed as soon as possible to save money. You will have 6 or 8 monkeys on your house and the installation will probably take 1 possibly 2 days. With that said, they most likely will not run any conduit in your attic because it takes a little more time so expect ugly conduit runs coming off the roof, LB's in places you don't want LB's, and the roof junction box outside of the array. The nice thing about a smaller solar company is you can usually work the installers and they will run the conduit from the junction box (located under the array) through the roof, through your attic, punch out through the side of the house and down to the inverters. It's hidden much more and you won't have all of it visible from the front of the house. 

 

Some suggestions :

 

Ask about any squirrel guard or critter guard that they can install around your array to protect the wires and panels from wire-destroying squirrels and such. They can and most likely will get under the array, make nests, and chew the wires. Those are all ingredients for wires arcing on your roof and causing a fire. Even if it's an extra grand, I would highly suggest the guard.

 

If you have a lot of money to work with, battery backups are nice and convenient. But they are a lot of money. Plus it all works based on weather/sunlight and if you have a hurricane knocking power out for 2 weeks and have cloudy days, you're not going to be producing a lot of power to charge the batteries. Like others, I'd suggest a backup generator - much cheaper and IMO more optimal and efficient. But if you want the best solar battery back up system, check out the new backup system that Elon Musk of solar city came out with. I've heard good things.

 

If you have the land for it, look into a ground mount. Solar Foundations is a company that usually installs the residential ground mounts and they are good. The advantage of a ground mount is they construct the mount exactly south and at a 30-35 degree pitch (most optimal conditions for solar production). You don't have to worry about 50 holes being drilled into your roof by a possibly incompetent installer which leads to leaks. Very few roofs are perfect for solar - most are not facing due south, most are not optimal pitches, most don't have the space needed for the right amount of panels to reduce your electric bill to nothing. A ground mount has all that and you can put as many panels as you need on one.

 

Make sure that the company will warranty you for a long time (if not 25 yrs, the life of the panels) for not only service, but also all the equipment although most equipment is warrantied under manufacturers warranty. Just make sure if something goes wrong, breaks, ground fault, anything in the future, that the company will warranty it. Most will.

 

Sunpower and SMA are two of the best solar equipment companies out there IMO. Both make solid equipment that works well. Sunpower panels were the most efficient at around 21.5% I believe but Elon Musk of solar city has come up with a panel that is 22% supposedly. The Sunpower Power One inverters had some issues the past year or so with very sensitive ground fault sensors and a lot of them had to be replaced. The SMA Sunny Boys are awesome and have never seen many problems with them. 

 

Make sure you have no shading issues. Solar panels are sensitive and can pick up light fairly easily BUT if you have some shade on the roof from surrounding trees, your production will suffer…most likely drastically. With regular solar panels, they are installed on the roof in "strings" with usually 5-8 panels on each string. If a few panels are shaded, they can shut down that whole string and you will lose a lot of production. If the solar company says there will be some shade on your array "but it's not a big deal," I would not trust them. With that said, if you do have some minor shading issues with maybe some shading in the morning and then nothing in the middle of day onto afternoon, then another option is looking into Solar Edge Optimizers (basically micro inverters) and another brand is Enphase. Enphase micro inverters are shit and their quality control is absolutely unacceptable…their micro inverters burn out easily and just never work. The Solar Edge optimizers work very well and if a panel or two in a string are shaded, the other panels in that string will continue working well.

 

I think that's all I can think of real quick.

IMO, solar energy does not make sense for NJ. Here in AZ, the newer homes have it with 300 days of sun per year. There are quite a few companies that install. Solar City seems to be the worse. The leasing program seems to be better than buying. I don't have solar. The wife thinks their hideous. My electric bill averages $210/mo on the budget plan, and we run the A/C continually for 8 months keeping the house at 72.

 

Sent from an undisclosed location.

 

 

Two more things - I will disagree with one of the other posters about shingle degradation. Solar panels do not protect the roof. The shingles will still get sunlight, snow, rain, etc. The roof gets VERY hot under panels. If your roof is over 10 years old, I would suggest getting a new roof if you plan on having panels on your roof for 25 years. It's going to cost a lot of money in 15 years to get a crew out to take everything off the roof, have a roof company put on a new one, then have them come back and reinstall everything. It's basically installing a new solar array again. One thing I will suggest is if you don't have the money to replace all the roofs on your house, just replace the roof(s) that the solar will be on. This will allow you to get a new roof for solar but not be a huge cost either. 

 

Be careful with getting solar and then thinking "oh I have solar, I can get a hot tub and a pool and leave lights on all day." Most companies will look at the past year or two of electric bills you have and base the size of your system on that. If you get an 8KW system and then decide to get a hot tub and start a welding hobby a few nights a week, you're going to be using a ton more electricity and you will see your electric bills suffer. In the case you want a pool in the next couple years, it may be wise to wait to get solar until the pool is installed for 6 months so the company can see the rise in electric usage and then see how many additional panels you will need to compensate for that extra usage for the pool heater and all that related equipment. 

Two more things - I will disagree with one of the other posters about shingle degradation. Solar panels do not protect the roof. The shingles will still get sunlight, snow, rain, etc. The roof gets VERY hot under panels. If your roof is over 10 years old, I would suggest getting a new roof if you plan on having panels on your roof for 25 years. It's going to cost a lot of money in 15 years to get a crew out to take everything off the roof, have a roof company put on a new one, then have them come back and reinstall everything. It's basically installing a new solar array again. One thing I will suggest is if you don't have the money to replace all the roofs on your house, just replace the roof(s) that the solar will be on. This will allow you to get a new roof for solar but not be a huge cost either. 

 

Be careful with getting solar and then thinking "oh I have solar, I can get a hot tub and a pool and leave lights on all day." Most companies will look at the past year or two of electric bills you have and base the size of your system on that. If you get an 8KW system and then decide to get a hot tub and start a welding hobby a few nights a week, you're going to be using a ton more electricity and you will see your electric bills suffer. In the case you want a pool in the next couple years, it may be wise to wait to get solar until the pool is installed for 6 months so the company can see the rise in electric usage and then see how many additional panels you will need to compensate for that extra usage for the pool heater and all that related equipment. 

What is your basis for not agreeing that the panels protect the roof?  The area of the roof that is covered with the panels does not receive UV radiation and do not have snow and rain pounding on it and wearing it out.  The area under the panels stays cooler than without them.  I have used my IR thermometer in the attic and measured the temperature of the underside of the roof in the summer both where the panels are and area adjacent where they are not, the covered area is about 15 degrees cooler than the uncovered area.

We put solar in 3 years ago and we love it. I could sit here and debate previous posts but I don't feel like it.

I'll just tell you our experience......my summer Atlantic city electric bill was $500 to $750 and winter being in the $250 range. 3000 sq ft House with 1000sq Ft in-law suite, in ground pool,  hot tub, 2 central a/c units, 2 electric dryers....... We have a 73 panel system. We now pay a set fee of $196.50 a month for the next 15 years. After that I can pay a pro-rated price to make them mine or they take them off, return my house to the way it was prior at no cost to me. My wife does contracts for a living so it was thoroughly scrutinized.

The installer told me that after the 15 years, the home owner is in the drivers seat because due to technology alone, it isn't worth their time to take them off.

I am very, very particular on work being done and know the difference. The installer was outstanding. Super neat clean job. My electric bills now are $3.00 (really zero but for a paperwork fee) a month and in the winter I may get a $50 to $100 if we have a lot of snow. We have saved a TON of money.

If anyone wants the number of our installer give me a pm. Like stated above, estimates and a proposed contract costs you nothing but time.

Howard and RF hit it on the head, and why I told Solar City to FOAD after I looked those details over.

 

I'll be rolling my own solar install next year sometime, after I replace my roof. One of the things my roofer will be doing is ice shielding the entire roof, not just the leading edge. This way any pentrations from the solar install will be self-sealed at the roof deck. Think of it as one more layer of protection of the penetration.

We have a fairly large installation on two of our buildings. During the sunny months our electric bill has been as low as $6. When the sun begins sinking and/or the panels get covered with snow (sometimes for weeks) the panels are useless.

 

The ONLY way installing panels makes economic sense is if you can get someone else to pay 50-60% of the installation cost. I got a huge tax credit from the Feds and some sort of grant from NJ. That was five years ago. I also recall some installers offering "free" programs where they take the green energy credits. 

What is your basis for not agreeing that the panels protect the roof?  The area of the roof that is covered with the panels does not receive UV radiation and do not have snow and rain pounding on it and wearing it out.  The area under the panels stays cooler than without them.  I have used my IR thermometer in the attic and measured the temperature of the underside of the roof in the summer both where the panels are and area adjacent where they are not, the covered area is about 15 degrees cooler than the uncovered area.

 

I understand and that was a good test to try (I've heard of 5-10%) but the shingles underneath the array are still receiving weather changes. Just because there are panels sitting 4-6inches above the shingles doesn't mean they are not still exposed to the elements. Sure, the shingles may not be receiving direct sunlight and according to your test, they were 15 degrees cooler but it's still hot as hell under there during the summer.

 

Some people say that the attic will be cooler with panels on your roof but IMO, the array would have to max out your perfectly oriented southern roof with barely, if any at all, sun on the adjacent roofs with no panels. All roofs have at least two sides so just because you may have an array on one side doesn't mean the sun is hitting the other roof and increasing the attic temperature.

Sorry that makes no sense. Those panels will be absorbing huge quantities of energy that would otherwise go directly into your roof. Additionally they would take the direct impact of weather. Of course the shingles would last longer and the attic would be cooler.  Any energy removed from the roof is a plus.

 

 

When you deal with these "we'll do it for free" place .. what happens when you sell your house? Is there some contractual obligation to the seller before the 20years or whatever is over, and is there any contractual component that might make it less likely or someone else to want to buy the house? A house with a paid off solar should in theory have a higher value, but when it is under a contract, that could be odd.

Sorry that makes no sense. Those panels will be absorbing huge quantities of energy that would otherwise go directly into your roof. Additionally they would take the direct impact of weather. Of course the shingles would last longer and the attic would be cooler.  Any energy removed from the roof is a plus.

 

 

When you deal with these "we'll do it for free" place .. what happens when you sell your house? Is there some contractual obligation to the seller before the 20years or whatever is over, and is there any contractual component that might make it less likely or someone else to want to buy the house? A house with a paid off solar should in theory have a higher value, but when it is under a contract, that could be odd.

Exactly.  As I stated from 10 years of real world experience the attic stays cooler in the summer with the panels.  It does not matter that 100% may not be covered, as any covering reduces direct exposure to the sun and contact by driving rain.  Sure the other side (North side) of the roof is no protected, but if you had to repair or replace that side you would not have to remove panels.

 

There have been several news expose' shows on these contracts and they can be a big headache or financial disaster for the home owner.  As I mentioned you are agreeing to pay them a set amount a month for the power the system is to produce.  The problem is often times these contracts are sold to third parties.  When the system stops producing you have to go back to the original party for repairs, and they could even be out of business, yet you still owe monthly payments to someone else and they could care less if the system actually works.  Just like mortgages being sold.  Further, if you go to sell your home you have to get that party to take over your contract, and they may just decide to buy the house up the block rather than do that. Thus, your house with a rented system is worth less than a house without them while your house with an owned system is worth more.