So I just received a questionnaire for a friend of mine that listed me as a reference from a south jersey PD. They are asking the following..and I can only answer yes or no...not yes to the best of my knowledge.

Has the applicant ever been convicted of a crime or disorderly persons offense? How would I know for sure, and wouldn't that be some thing that the police would know? Does the applicant suffer from any physical defect or illness? suffer? Seriously? Illness? Like a cold or flu? Has the applicant ever been confined to a mental institution? If they were they never told me...and are t you guys supposed to,be doing the mental health background check? Has the applicant ever belong to an organization that promotes the overthrow of the us government or the state of NJ. Overthrow NJ???? Are there such organizations? Like who would want the state? And wouldn't those meetings be secretive? How would I know? This is the state of our system...this is what they want to know from a reference in order to decide if the applicant is worthy of owning a gun.

That practice is from an era when overzealous head caveman (with pea brain) would decide if  other cavemen in the neighborhood were allowed to get their own rock to throw at the dinosaurs.  Hopefully, NJ gets out of that practice a million years from now. 

  

Does the questionnaire has language implying "you will be held responsible" or "under penalty of perjury" ?  

That practice is from an era when overzealous head caveman (with pea brain) would decide if  other cavemen in the neighborhood were allowed to get their own rock to throw at the dinosaurs.  Hopefully, NJ gets out of that practice a million years from now. 

  

Does the questionnaire has language implying "you will be held responsible" or "under penalty of perjury" ?

 

Ha, no but they ask for my drivers license number...did not know you needed to have one of those to know the answers to all those other questions? Now I feel bad for all my friends that had to answer this stuff for my permits...

I wouldnt worry about anything..

Does it give you space to answer or does it just have check boxes?

For the criminal question, I have put "I don't know, you are the police so you should know this."

Once put the time I had known the applicant in Seconds (I am a bit of an ass, but I hate ridiculous questions), actually got a call from Manahawkin detective to clarify.  She was really nice and agreed that the questions were a bit ridiculous.  And all my referencees have gotten their permits. 

 

I have never seen the illness Q,  kind of bizarre. If you answer yes, do they have a followup for  details?  I would likely say yes and then say I observed him with a cold one time, don't know if he is over it yet.

 

I would not answer anything if you do not know for sure.

Something else to delay the process...

 

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Answer the questions in a way that will not prevent the applicant from exercising their right. There is no law broken or has there ever been any action taken against a reference for stating their opinion or lack of knowledge about someone, AFAIK.

 

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On second thought, I would not say anything about physical defect or illness.  One of my wife's refs mentioned asthma, and the PD (because they were unable to render a medical opinion) demanded a doctors note with an opinion that it would not adversely affect ability to use a firearm.  Luckily she had a visit scheduled to her OB/GYN.  He just laughed and said "do you think it affects your ability to use a firearm?" "No." And he wrote the note. 

However, I can see a Doctor with an agenda,  or just one that fears the liability, refusing to provide this.

Send it to me. I'll slap my dick on an ink pad, slap it on the form on the signature line, and write that he is US Army Special Forces.

The entire references thing ( as well as P2P and FPID) is ridiculous from the start. That's what NICS is for at the time of sale.

I also love the form questions at the time of sale. Are you a drunk? Do you beat women? Like to snort coke on the weekends? Ever get tossed in the looney bin? Like anybody is going to say, "Sure, I'm a huge asshole."

 

Again, that's what NICS is for. If we could trust everybody's answers on those stupid forms, why do we background check anyway?

On second thought, I would not say anything about physical defect or illness.  One of my wife's refs mentioned asthma, and the PD (because they were unable to render a medical opinion) demanded a doctors note with an opinion that it would not adversely affect ability to use a firearm.  Luckily she had a visit scheduled to her OB/GYN.  He just laughed and said "do you think it affects your ability to use a firearm?" "No." And he wrote the note. 

However, I can see a Doctor with an agenda,  or just one that fears the liability, refusing to provide this.

 

I don't know which PD but I remember someone having the same issue after a reference mentioned allergies as an illness. They needed a note from a doctor indicating that the allergies wouldn't be an issue.

Answer the questions in a way that will not prevent the applicant from exercising their right. There is no law broken or has there ever been any action taken against a reference for stating their opinion or lack of knowledge about someone, AFAIK.Sent from an undisclosed location via Tapatalk.

 

I agree with PK90.

 

The only thing that strikes me as an overreach is asking for your DL #.

Starting to think that the PD does this for multiple reasons.

1. To paint a picture of your social circle. I'm starting to think this especially after hearing numerous stories of PD's "losing" the reference letters giving you the two options of them having to resend it or picking another reference.

2. Use the reference against you. They may also investigate these reference and see what kind of a person they are which can tell a lot about you as well. People generally hang out with people who are similar to them.

 

Regardless of the real reason, its a burden, unnecessary, and just prolongs the process for no reason.

its just that the questions are check off, yes or no on issues that even a close friend might have no knowledge of, when i fill out reference letters for doctors hospital applications...it is always qualified with " to the best of your knowledge"  and no one want to know if I have a drivers license.  This person that is appying is being finger printed, and background checked....at least send  me an intelligent reference letter.  The request shows just shows how broke the system is.   Look, this is a friend who certainly is entilitled to the guarentees of the 2nd amendment, and I will answer the questionaire as all would here...I dont know if the questionaire is a standard form written by the state or each police department comes up with their own ideas. 

I also love the form questions at the time of sale. Are you a drunk? Do you beat women? Like to snort coke on the weekends? Ever get tossed in the looney bin? Like anybody is going to say, "Sure, I'm a huge asshole."

Convicted? No, never convicted. But we are willing to learn.

 

https://www.youtube.com/embed/xR9HuRUUTbs

Now that I think of it, Clifton asks references to provide their employer and employer phone #. In my case no employers (mine nor references) were contacted.

I don't know which PD but I remember someone having the same issue after a reference mentioned allergies as an illness. They needed a note from a doctor indicating that the allergies wouldn't be an issue.

Yes that was me, and actually it was allergies--she has both asthma and allergies to almost every dog and cat breed.  I know the reference meant no harm--just trying to be as honest as possible.  But I don't think the police should ask a question if they do not feel qualified to evaluate the answer.  And this is just common sense.

I was asked once, 'are you crazy?' I said no, he said 'here is your permit'.... took 20 minutes....those were the days

Those questions are dumb as hell....just like when you buy ammo at Dicks tbe screen asks if you are illegal or something to that effect..... first of all if you have an FID that would mean you are NOT here illegally and secondly if someone was who the hell would say yes after all they did to sneak into the country ?????

Grrr....

I may have photocopied a copy of this if anyone is interested. I'll try to dig it up.