I did a search. I'm not talking plate carrier but basic Kevlar undershirt vests. Any of you have a good manufacturer?

Bulletproofme

 

this signature exceeds the 15 character capacity count

http://www.bulletsafe.com/bullet-proof-vest.html

US Palm Defender

 

http://www.opticsplanet.com/us-palm-molle-defender-soft-armor-plate-carrier-with-two-level-iiia-soft-armor-p.html

that not a bad deal at all.  theres also one on optics planet geared toward carrying a pistol w/ pouches for not much more

I have the handgun model from US Palm - it was really cheap on their website directly a few months back.

 

I also have a Second Chance carrier I can switch the soft plates into for concealability.

True.  black friday deals will be right around the corner too.  Hope we see some good deals this year

I want a vest as well but not sure which type to get.

 

I'm less concerned with mobility and weight, more concerned with safety/protection. 

These vests are legal?

If you're worried about Cost, Mobility and Weight, go with IIIA soft armor (least protection - handgun caliber bullets only).

 

If you're worried about safety/protection + cost, and not about weight, go with AR500 Steel.

 

If you're worried about Protection and weight, and damn the cost, go with ceramic/composite plates...

These vests are legal?

 

100%, unless used while committing a crime, then it's an additional tack-on charge...

If you decide to go with AR500, go with the "build-up coating" option for spall protection.

 

They are pretty damn heavy though...  banshee plate carrier is also a winner

If you're worried about Cost, Mobility and Weight, go with IIIA soft armor (least protection - handgun caliber bullets only).

 

If you're worried about safety/protection + cost, and not about weight, go with AR500 Steel.

 

If you're worried about Protection and weight, and damn the cost, go with ceramic/composite plates...

 

I dont mind paying more, dont care about the weight but want maximum protection.

 

So I go with the ceramic?

I dont mind paying more, dont care about the weight but want maximum protection.

 

So I go with the ceramic?

 

Definitely.

http://www.bulletsafe.com/bullet-proof-vest.html

Thankyou. You have personal experience with this?

Definitely.

 

What about steel plates?

 

Isnt steel > ceramic? 

What about steel plates?

 

Isnt steel > ceramic? 

 

It's not exactly ceramic per se - it's a composite mix.  With steel plates, you've got 2 disadvantages.  Weight and Spalling.  When a round strikes a hard face plate, it usually will come apart. spraying lead and jacket fragments parallel to the surface of the plate, including up and into your face and throat.  Coatings are a stopgap at best.  Steel plates, however, can take more hits...  That being said, a M193 round through an AR500 Level III plate will penetrate if fired through a long rifle barrel (22 in) and hit a certain FPS..... and it will punch straight through.

 

Composite plates will take less hits (sometimes only 1, depending on the bullet/caliber) but have minimal chances of spalling.  Composite plates will take a higher level hit than Steel.  30-06 AP round will be stopped (just 1)...

 

Do we need all that?  Most likely not.

 

I would, however, one-up the standard AR500 steel plate and go with AR680 - https://armour-wear.com/shop/all/ar680-steel-plate/

On 10/21/2016 at 3:03 PM, Krdshrk said:

If you're worried about Cost, Mobility and Weight, go with IIIA soft armor (least protection - handgun caliber bullets only).

 

If you're worried about safety/protection + cost, and not about weight, go with AR500 Steel.

 

If you're worried about Protection and weight, and damn the cost, go with ceramic/composite plates...

And then there's this option:   http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4692566/How-FAKE-BOOBS-save-life.html

"Having them fitted could be the difference between life or death, experts say"

 

Dear lord! What 'hoods are you folks living in? Or are you expecting the great zombie apocalypse to unleash itself any minute now? 

Seriously, unless you're regularly at risk - cop, security guard - and your employer doesn't fund a vest, why would you need or want one? I'm not being snarky, I just truly don't understand. They're heavy, hot, uncomfortable, etc. Enlighten me to your thinking.

2 minutes ago, Mrs. Peel said:

Dear lord! What 'hoods are you folks living in? Or are you expecting the great zombie apocalypse to unleash itself any minute now? 

Seriously, unless you're regularly at risk - cop, security guard - and your employer doesn't fund a vest, why would you need or want one? I'm not being snarky, I just truly don't understand. They're heavy, hot, uncomfortable, etc. Enlighten me to your thinking.

You've geared up Peel?

heavy hot a sweaty, good description.

ill ask, is it better to need and not have, or better to have and not need?

SHTF situation.  I have a US Palm Defender vest for a Just in Case type situation.  Only has IIIA soft plates so I'm only protected from pistol calibers, but honestly - isn't that what you're most likely to go up against anyway (unless you're a Republican Baseball Player.... too soon?)...

1 minute ago, Zeke said:

You've geared up Peel?

heavy hot a sweaty, good description.

ill ask, is it better to need and not have, or better to have and not need?

For all you know, Zeke... I'm sitting here in my vest! LOL. Tell me, it's just us... do you have a closet full of MRE's too? 

1 minute ago, Krdshrk said:

SHTF situation.  I have a US Palm Defender vest for a Just in Case type situation.  Only has IIIA soft plates so I'm only protected from pistol calibers, but honestly - isn't that what you're most likely to go up against anyway (unless you're a Republican Baseball Player.... too soon?)...

Wow, I'm outnumbered!

And yes, that line was "too soon" - come'on man, the guy's apparently still fighting for his life. Sheesh. At least let him get discharged before the jokes fly. 

1 minute ago, Mrs. Peel said:

For all you know, Zeke... I'm sitting here in my vest! LOL. Tell me, it's just us... do you have a closet full of MRE's too? 

Nope, but I have a generator. And glow sticks.

working on the food thing

If you decide to go with AR500, go with the "build-up coating" option for spall protection.

Not for nothing, but I really don't trust that coating. I've seen a few tests on YouTube where the spall went between the plate and coating, and still exited as shrapnel. Best case, it doesn't hit or hits an extremity. Worst... hits you in the neck or nads.

I got DKX Level III in my carrier... front, back, and sides. I've seen some good performance with those plates, they weren't that expensive compared to Level IV that was around at that time (they have released Level IV, but doubt I'll be needing to stop AP), and they are buoyant. Their Level IIIA plates are very comfortable and thin, for a hard plate.

Steel plates are heavy. Ceramic is nice (expensive), but if you drop them, you need to X-ray them to see if you cracked them. Definitely do a crap ton of research on them prior to biting the bullet... and do see if you can spare the coin for them. Very expensive investment that you might be able to put into other things.

I forgot i even had plates till i saw this notification lol.

Youre probably right about the spall, but from what i recall "extra build up" only split up like how you described from being hit by something along the lines of 308 AP or 30-06 AP rounds multiple times but i could be wrong (ar500armor brand).  I dont remember seeing the coating breaking up by more "common" rifle calibers (556 or 762x39) but its been a while...  my wife bought me those ar500 lvl 3+ plates during a black friday sale several years ago

Would your DKX level III plates stop 556 rounds out of a 20" barrel?  

If i could do it all over again id get ceramic lvl4 and be done with it....  im stuck with these smelly heavy ass ar500 lvl3+ plates

Youre probably right about the spall, but from what i recall "extra build up" only split up like how you described from being hit by something along the lines of 308 AP or 30-06 AP rounds multiple times but i could be wrong (ar500armor brand).  I dont remember seeing the coating breaking up by more "common" rifle calibers (556 or 762x39) but its been a while...  my wife bought me those ar500 lvl 3+ plates during a black friday sale several years ago
Would your DKX level III plates stop 556 rounds out of a 20" barrel?  
If i could do it all over again id get ceramic lvl4 and be done with it....  im stuck with these smelly heavy ass ar500 lvl3+ plates

I remember seeing one video, kind of want to say MAC... but not 100% on that, where it was the first round out of an AK (7.62x39mm). With all the testing I've seen on DKX, never saw spall.

DKX I believe exceed Level III... but marketed as such. The issue with 5.56mm is when you start going into M855. I do know the Level III will stop M2 ball out of a Garand... so don't think it will have issue with a 20" shooting M193. I've never seen a test of M855 with DKX, but wouldn't expect it to stop it, as that is more of a Level IV capability.

If I was not in the position I'm in, and was buying new... I'd probably opt for the Level IV DKX. More of a just because type of reason.

I dunno...  there are too many youtube vids ive seen that i care to remember but ive never seen 762x39 do that on ar500armor branded plates.  It was always a much larger cartridge.

 

You sure you didnt mean m193?  Speed is what defeats armor and 55gr m193 is faster than 62gr m855.  Lvl 3 steel plates wont stop m193 but lvl 3+ will due to a higher speed rating.

 

Jesus these things are so damn heavy.  Need to exercise lol

 

 

You sure you didnt mean m193?  Speed is what defeats armor and 55gr m193 is faster than 62gr m855.  Lvl 3 steel plates wont stop m193 but lvl 3+ will due to a higher speed rating.

Speed does defeat armor, however... bullet makeup also does. I have a few of those Liberty Civil Defense 50 grain 9mm +P loads, which I've seen pierce Level IIIA (forget if it got through Level III, just because of how long it was since I looked into the load).

M855 is a steel penetrator round. That's why it is not allowed at certain ranges, and is why there was a lot of issue when there was talks of banning it because of the higher commonality of AR pistols. Level IV will stop it, but most Level III does not.

Level III+ is not a NIJ Standard. You may get it to stop M193... you may not. With certain ones, you may get it to stop M855... you may not. I just checked my plates' rating, and they will stop M193.

NIJ states that each level must stop X and Y threats (not just two, but giving an example that there are specific constraints), plus the threats for the levels below it. A + rating is standardized by the company putting out the armor, and may add a Z threat that is greater than X/Y. Z may even be a threat that a Level IV plate can stop... but the plate might not be able to stop other threats for that standard.

1 hour ago, Screwball said:

 

Speed does defeat armor, however... bullet makeup also does. I have a few of those Liberty Civil Defense 50 grain 9mm +P loads, which I've seen pierce Level IIIA (forget if it got through Level III, just because of how long it was since I looked into the load).

M855 is a steel penetrator round. That's why it is not allowed at certain ranges, and is why there was a lot of issue when there was talks of banning it because of the higher commonality of AR pistols. Level IV will stop it, but most Level III does not.

Level III+ is not a NIJ Standard. You may get it to stop M193... you may not. With certain ones, you may get it to stop M855... you may not. I just checked my plates' rating, and they will stop M193.

NIJ states that each level must stop X and Y threats (not just two, but giving an example that there are specific constraints), plus the threats for the levels below it. A + rating is standardized by the company putting out the armor, and may add a Z threat that is greater than X/Y. Z may even be a threat that a Level IV plate can stop... but the plate might not be able to stop other threats for that standard.

 

And now I have a headache 

The entire armor industry is black magic. The salesmen make used car dealers seem downright pious.

It is important to know that not all armor can stop every threat. You need to do a realistic assessment of why you are most likely to come across threat wise - even in the same calibers. For example, ceramic armor will stop some things while others will whistle right through. Even in the same caliber.

Rule of thumb - You armor has to stop the rounds that you and yours carry. After that its a caliber assessment of likely threats. Make friends with a cop. Find out what they are seeing in your area. 

Heavy (Rifle) armor has many options - ceramic, HDPE, Boron Carbide, Steel, Hybrid (HDPE and Ceramic). When buying you have 3 options, lightweight, affordable, effective. You get to pick two of the three. Avoid AR500 armor. I like the Hybrid. Stops a larger range of threats, both the fast lightweight rounds and the slow heavy stuff. The HDPE protects the ceramic and stops spall. It's lighter than pure ceramic and in the low end of the middle price wise.

Soft armor is another story.

I have been in charge of purchasing the concealable vests for my department for 10 years. In my opinion Point Blank currently has the best ballistics package out there in their IIIa vests since they bought Paraclete from MSA.

That US Palm defender rig is nice too. Decent armor in a great "bump in the night" setup.