I have this ammunition that I know nothing about. I find it curious because you don't see its bullet weight or +P+ rating in 38 special rounds but it's popular in 9mm loadings. Does anyone know anything about it? For the record, I only shoot it in 357 magnum revolvers and it has some thump to it.

Law Enforcement .38 Special ammo. What I have heard it was commonly carried in the 70's and 80's by Police Departments that didn't want to use "Magnum" Ammuntion. "Magnum" is a dirty word and implies excessive force and could increase liability in lawsuits. So, extremely hot .38 might be close to "magnum" stopping power without the added liability.

Sounds about right. I know police departments frowned upon the use of 357s, so I figured this was their answer. The only issue is is that this ammo isn't from the 70s or 80s. It's like 15 years old, tops.

I think some big city Police Departments such as NYC didn't fully switch over to semi auto until the early 2000's, so that type of ammo was surely in use until then.

Ray ray, it's 147 gr as it says on the box. You are correct about the +p+ designation being the result of politics, "We dont use magnums we use 38 spl". The original 110 gr +p+ "Treasury Load" came out in the 70s. It was a 110 jhp that went close to a 1000 fps in a 2" and 1100-1150 fps in a 4".

 

That load gave devastating effects on soft targets but seriuosly lacked penetration.

 

I remember the 147 gr load in the 90s (it may have come out earlier). I carried it as a choice in a 2 1/2 M19 and a 2" M640. Regular use of magnums are not healthy for those guns and are difficult to control. The +p+ is an excellent compromise in those guns.

 

Actual chronograph results in those guns are:

 

2" M640.......900 fps

2 1/2" M19....848 fps

2 3/4" Ruger..950 fps

4" Taurus.....1100 fps

6 1/2" Ruger..1150 fps

16" Rossi.....1200 fps

 

Basically its a light magnum load. I am personally aware it has good effect on the target. I've heard stories (unconfirmed) that this ammo was really +p but Federal called it +p+ to keep it out of civilian hands. No laws broken having this ammo.

 

I would shoot these in a 357 rated gun with no worries. I'd use them in a K frame 38 on a limited basis. Never in a J frame. My opinion is based on shooting literally 1000s of these rounds both 110 and 147 +p+.

 

I wouldn't worry about them being 15 years old as long as they were kept under reasonable conditions. I would carry them in a defensive gun.

 

Hope this helped. Anything I didn't mention, ask.

I think some big city Police Departments such as NYC didn't fully switch over to semi auto until the early 2000's, so that type of ammo was surely in use until then.

NYPD started to allow semiautos for all the troops during the Dinkins Administration in the early 90s (90-91). However, initially they were restricted to fmj and 10 rd magazines. NYPD used 158 std velocity swcs in 38s. About the same time they went to Federal +p 158 Nyclad swcs. About 92 or so they went to hollowpoints. They used the same Federal round in 38 but in hollowpoint as late as 2005 to my knowledge. They switched to a jhp after that. The policy was when you switched to a semiauto you couldn't go back to a revolver. Many kept their revolvers.

 

There's maybe still 50 or so NYPD officers still carrying a revolver as their duty weapon. About a year ago, I saw a NYPD patrol officer with a S&W M10 in her holster. That would mean she's been on over 25 years.

GRIZ, thanks for the knowledge sir. They are in excellent condition and I have lots of it. I was wondering about shooting it in my Model 10 and my K38. But I probably would just use it in my 686 only.

As for using it defensively, I would have to find an SP101 or something of that size to use it in.

GRIZ, thanks for the knowledge sir. They are in excellent condition and I have lots of it. I was wondering about shooting it in my Model 10 and my K38. But I probably would just use it in my 686 only.

As for using it defensively, I would have to find an SP101 or something of that size to use it in.

Or a Charter Arms Southpaw?

GRIZ, thanks for the knowledge sir. They are in excellent condition and I have lots of it. I was wondering about shooting it in my Model 10 and my K38. But I probably would just use it in my 686 only.

As for using it defensively, I would have to find an SP101 or something of that size to use it in.

You're welcome Ray.

 

Moderate use in your Model 10 or K38 won't hurt them. I understand your concern thougg. I carried these in magnum rated guns. Suggest you try 6 of these in your 686 then try six magnums. Shoot fast as you would in a SD situation. The +p+ will most likely be a much tighter group.

GRIZ, I'll stick with Hornady Critical Defense for those guns. No need to beat them up.