I am going to make some bit coins on the 3D printer this week. Pleas contact me by PM if you would like to buy one for a bargain price of $13,000 US or 10 oz. 99.999 gold.

 The problem with the comparison to "mining gold" or any metal (precious or otherwise) is that gold / metals have intrinsic value.  They are used to produced and manufacture "stuff".  They are necessary components in almost every aspect of our lives.  Just look at electronics.  Metals are in everything we use.  Your automobile, your computers, your cell phones, power tools, electric wiring to tramsmit electricity etc, etc.  Metals are necessary and required.

What can you "make" with bitcoin or any cryptocurrency.  Nothing.  Zero.  Zilch.

Equating it with "missing" the internet craze is also nonsense.   Especially when you say you are going to hold it for a decade.  If you purchased in the middle of the internet craze or even in the beginning and held long term guess what you were left with?  Most likely very little.  Especially if you poured all your savings in Yahoo or Pets.com.

If you want to speculate and gamble.  Fine.  Call it that.  Just don't fool yourself into thinking you are investing.  Because you're not.  You are speculating.  Hoping for a bigger fool to come along.

I'm not saying don't roll the dice if you have some money that you can afford to lose.  But I wouldn't commit more than you can afford to lose.  This too will pass.  Just like internet stocks, $200 barrels of oil (now valued around $60 which is up substantially from where it bottomed out at), the real estate bubble, gold, pork bellues, tulip bulbs, etc, etc.

Biggest clue is when EVERYONE is talking about it, you are probably too late.

 

 

Bitcoin - the preferred currency of drug dealers and black marketeers 

I wonder if any left wing environmentalists are “investing” it Bitcoins, which consume around $1,500 in electricity each to “mine”?

3 minutes ago, Howard said:

I wonder if any left wing environmentalists are “investing” it Bitcoins, which consume around $1,500 in electricity each to “mine”?

$1500 in electricity?   I'd do that every day.  It's more like $15000 in electricity, in the US anyway.  Most of the miners in Asia either get electricity for free or very cheap.

That said, if you have an apartment where the utilities are paid, having a miner chugging away could pay for itself.  I'd love to get my hands on an Antminer S9.  I'd use it to warm my office at work and turn off the electric heater.  It'd probably be a wash as far as the company goes.

I was surprised to see Gold holding where it is given the market gains. I thought the Gold would head south following conventional wisdom. So anything undervalued as of now at all ?  

 

 Platinum. No way palladium or gold should be worth more than platinum.  

 

 

I made a nice profit buying palladium in the low 200s and selling in the 800s.

 

 

Last I looked platinum was in the low 900s, palladium was about $100 more and gold was near $1,300. Platinum should be 4x Palladium and 1.5x Gold. Another play would be to go short on palladium which is past its peak.

 

 

I almost bought $1000 in bitcoin at $5 a coin. I would have sold way before it broke $10,000, but still kick myself. Now it is a bubble waiting to burst. Regulation or hacking or both will be its ultimate demise, but the bubble will pop before then.

 

 

Just like the dot coms when the cabbie is talking about buying it's time to get out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I’m too afraid to chime in how much BTC and LTC are up since my last post.  I’m afraid it will taint all the good tax advice I give.

cheers.

Remember. BTC was not made for the people of the USA.   It was made for the people who live in places like Turkey and Zimbabwe.   It’s global people.  Wake up.

(oh and drug dealers too.  I Guess those are the wallets doing $14b a day in peer to peer transactions.  EVERY DAY.   That’s a lot of drugs and ammo i guess).

50 million wallets open today.  What happens when it goes to 2 billion?   Still drugs and guns?

 

So another $78M in Bitcoin was just stolen from Nicehash who now claims they have investors to repay the customers who now have nothing. Yet customers can't get any funds til the end of January. What are the odds anyone gets a dime or a bitcoin back from Nicehash?


No one has gotten their bitcoin back from Mt Gox or the other dozen or so exchanges that were hacked and individuals bitcoin were gone forever.


https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/bitcoin-gox/


Due to the theft of bitcoin government regulation is expanding. Once full regulation is in place bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies lose their allure. There maybe a short window left to make a couple dollars, but the risk is big. My advice is only invest money you are willing to lose.

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USD volume transacted on the #bitcoin network:
2016: $58 billion
2017: $357 billion
Avg. Fee 0,14%
 
Western Union USD volume:
2016: $80 billion
Avg. Fee 4,74%
 
In dec. alone > $97 billion transacted on BTC network

”it’s all drug dealers and guns”

hiw has the Western Union bubble lasted so long?

I think we may be seeing a churn from BTC into other coins like ETH and XRP.

BTC is defending its market cap.  

USD volume transacted on the #bitcoin network:

2016: $58 billion

2017: $357 billion

Avg. Fee 0,14%

 

Western Union USD volume:

2016: $80 billion

Avg. Fee 4,74%

 

In dec. alone > $97 billion transacted on BTC network

”it’s all drug dealers and guns”

hiw has the Western Union bubble lasted so long?

"Western Union Bubble" makes little sense.

 

 

If you are talking about Western Unions stock price it has been in a small trading range for a decade and is half the value it once was. However you are comparing apples and oranges when talking about the bursting of a bubble.

 

 

Bubbles burst when there is zero support for a large run-up in price. Dot.com bubble burst because companies that lost money were trading multiple times higher than Exxon Mobile and other established companies with positive and low P/E Ratios. Housing Bubble Burst because people were overpaying on speculative buying using interest only loans to invest. They couldn't afford to payback these loans when things went South and the principal payments were added in.

 

 

Bitcoin price is currently being manipulated by a few major players and inexperienced investors who are now being sucked in thinking that the price will continue to rise. Even before Bitcoin is killed by regulation and hackers those major players will short Bitcoin and make a boatload more money. This will cause a lot of amateur investors to go broke.

 

 

 

How is that bitcoin investing going for those who bought at $17,000 where it was being promoted just recently on here? Down to $13,000 now. We are getting into margin call terrority. Then you will really start seeing some accelerated drops. It's all by design. People like the Rothchilds pump the price up, they loan the money for those "professional" traders, they crash the price while selling short and then call in the margin loans. People scramble to cover the margin calls with real money. The rich get richer.


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8 hours ago, capt14k said:

People like the Rothchilds pump the price up, they loan the money for those "professional" traders, they crash the price while selling short and then call in the margin loans.
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Anybody is free to make money shorting bitcoin; if traders are borrowing money and can’t cover subsequent margin calls, replace “professionals” above with “idiots”

Anybody is free to make money shorting bitcoin; if traders are borrowing money and can’t cover subsequent margin calls, replace “professionals” above with “idiots”

Absolutely they are free to make money. That professionals was in quotes as a nice way of saying idiots.

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How's bitcoin doing? Just lost 50% of its value from the high. Where is the support level at? Who knows; technicals mean nothing when there is no real value. The big boys know where it is at because they have been manipulating it all along.

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How's bitcoin doing? Just lost 50% of its value from the high. Where is the support level at? Who knows; technicals mean nothing when there is no real value. The big boys know where it is at because they have been manipulating it all along.

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I had heard the floor is supposedly around $5,600 based on electricity and computer costs to “mine” a bitcoin. Mining seems like a very strange term for it though.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-1-OZ-COPPER-COINS-BITCOIN-GUARDIAN-SILK-ROAD-ANONYMOUS-MAN-1-EACH/222800270692?hash=item33dfee5564:g:iUcAAOSwZ11aX5j8

I had heard the floor is supposedly around $5,600 based on electricity and computer costs to “mine” a bitcoin. Mining seems like a very strange term for it though.

Remember that is current cost. Years ago it was a lot cheaper and faster.

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With the increasing difficulty and the lowering of the reward rate, it's definitely effecting the floor for cost effectiveness.  It makes one wonder: what happens if the big "mines" decide to suddenly shut down because their profit margins just went to zero or negative.  Bitcoin and any of the other alt-coins could crash in a way that would make the 1929 stock market crash look like a hiccup.  I'm already wondering how many people are considering a long walk off a short roof top, given the reports of people recently taking out massive loans and high interest debt to buy into 'coin.  Another reason it sure feels like 1929 all over again.

The technicals/chart patterns/tea leaves mean just as much in this market as any other.  Signals mean nothing, it's how one plays their cards.  It's still a market.  Trade accordingly. 

What is going on right now is healthy, at least in the short term.    We only have to go back a couple of months to see prices 40% lower than where they are today.  Parabolic moves do not continue uninterrupted.  We will very likely see new highs.  Anyone's guess how much lower it goes and for how long before that happens.  

I still believe majority of cryptos in current form are going to 0, but I don't think this is the move where it happens.  New highs to come.  BTC may no longer be the dominant market player that it once was. 

Drastic swings are not the sign of a healthy market. They are the sign of a manipulated market. Only the big players or manipulators know where it is going to next.

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12 hours ago, capt14k said:

Drastic swings are not the sign of a healthy market. They are the sign of a manipulated market. Only the big players or manipulators know where it is going to next.

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This. The market cap of all the blockchains are small enough that there are a relatively large number of entities that have the cash to manipulate the market without doing anything that would be remotely illegal. This may come to an end soon, but all the less than legal manipulation will still be there. 

As a point of reference, the gold metal market is possible to manipulate by brute force. Barely. 

As for bending the rules, look at how gold was manipulated by the "market owners". 

Look at how goldman sachs set up warehousing for various commodities for trading, mostly metals. Then front ran any orders by customers using the service? 

Look at how the forex market was manipulated in 2013.  

Those last two hold some extreme parallels for how most people participate in bitcoin and other blockchain "currencies". 

Blockchain is for crooks. Used to be drug dealers and such, now it's bankers. Watch your cornhole, cause they gonna bend you over. 

Silver Market too.


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You guys mentioning mining are so clueless words cannot describe.   Did you guys get your bitcoin knowledge from yahoo news?  Your ignorance wants to make me vomit.   Have you even read the Satisho white paper?  It’s only 9 pages.  Do yourself a favor and read it.   I’m okay debating the “value” of it.  But please.  It’s insulting you have no clue what mining is.   There is no fucking floor to the price based on electricity.  You make me laugh. Do you know what the miners do?  Do you know what solving for the nonce is?  Do you know the 600 second rule?  If you don’t know then be ashamed trying discuss the operational aspects of it.  Again, fine to discuss the global adoption network value in the future of it and bubble nature of any asset but please don’t bring up up bullshit about energy cost and unsustainably until you have smallest iota of knowledge about how the nonces are maintained and what “miners” do.   I’ll give you a little hint.  The lower the bitcoin price goes it means MORE not less LESS people will want to try to mine it and that means less energy used to solve the block.   High priced coins means people can throw more ASIC power at it. (If yiu don’t know what ASIC means then again just STFU about operational side of bitcoin) if the coin goes down in value then the ASIC guys unplug and the GPU or CPU guys can maintain the ledger.   I’ll say it again. Lower coin price means more miners not less becaise the Ferrari computers leave and the Toyota computers can mantain the system.).  

I can keep my mouth shut about valuations (still in the green since my OP across Ether and Litecoin) But i just can’t be silent and let you guys spout nonsense about how the network works. 

Ya know when gold was first discovered a lot of the environment was torn up looking for it.  Why did they do it?  Because it was profitable to the first guys to exploit it.  The ASIC miners are throwing big bucks at it because it’s early and they will say “because we can,  come and stop us”. But at some point they will pack up and the regular “pan handlers” will mine (maintain the ledger) for gold (bitcoin).

i just want you guys to know the truth about how things work.   If you don’t think $50k because a non fiat currency won’t get popular that I can respect.  But at least really learn how the distributed ledger system operationally works before you talk about mining costs as an excuse.

the entire point of a decentralized monetary system based on peer to peer census is that freedom means if guys want to have an edge and use ASIC maintain the lesger then good for them. Have at it.  It doesn’t mean it lasts that way forever just like the guys who used water cannons to flush out the gold eventually move on. 

Again I respect if you feel that all currency needs a government backing for “trust” in that currency but i gotta set the record straught about the role of what the miners are doing.  They don’t just dig for coins.  They are the referees of the ledger.  They don’t do it for free.  The referees get paid. That payment is the coin.  And they race to be the best referee.  When the all star team decides they aren’t getting paid enough the JV team can move in.  And the JV team can mainitian the ledger from their house, not from a hydro electric plant.

Peace Out.

And lastly regarding “how’s it doing now it went down 50%”

let ye who doesn’t think gold ever went 50% down cast the first stone.

ya know the Nasdaq when down 80%.   Every asset has risks.  Pick your poison 

And now to make us all laugh fellas.  (It’s all good by the way).  The US government just shut down.   Bitcoin never shuts down.

Cheers.   :-)

Honestly I really don't care about mining and ledgers and exactly what is going on. The Bottom line is early on you could accumulate bitcoins relatively fast and now it takes a lot longer and there are higher costs involved. The ones who managed to get multiple bitcoins for next to nothing that haven't sold may soon look like fools. The ones who are spending too much money and time trying to get free bitcoins now are fools unless they are able to convert them to real money for less than they cost to acquire and before they become worthless.


Based on the Silk Road Arrests, stolen bitcoins, and claims that they know who stole them bitcoin doesn't seem very anonymous. If there isn't true anonymity what good are they? Because they aren't regulated and manipulated like "Fiat" currency? That obviously isn't true either since just a few players are manipulating the entire market.

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And now to make us all laugh fellas.  (It’s all good by the way).  The US government just shut down.   Bitcoin never shuts down.
Cheers.   :-)

The federal government never truly shuts down, and this one will likely last the weekend and not even be noticed like so many before it. Unless of course the Dems learned nothing from the prolonged shutdown of 1995-96 which cost the GOP dearly in the midterms. A prolonged shutdown this time will dash any hope the Dems had of winning back the House.

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On 1/20/2018 at 0:23 AM, capt14k said:

The federal government never truly shuts down, and this one will likely last the weekend and not even be noticed like so many before it. Unless of course the Dems learned nothing from the prolonged shutdown of 1995-96 which cost the GOP dearly in the midterms. A prolonged shutdown this time will dash any hope the Dems had of winning back the House.

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even with the shutdown having been short.......it's all out there that the dems caved and gave the repubs what they wanted.......they've got no chance of house.....and hopefully hurt themselves really bad for any chances of the senate......

Hope nobody here has been too hammered on the drop.

Market manipulation, market regulation, recent cyber thefts and harsh prediction from the Oracle of Omaha have decimated the price which has plunged 50% from It's highs.

I was telling people to sell at 18k if they owned it and to short it if they didn't and wanted to speculate on a downturn.  If you bought near highs I would sell now and then sell short to try to regain some losses.  It will drop further.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/02/bitcoin-ethereum-ripple-price-falls-over-100-billion-wiped-off-global-cryptocurrency-market.html