Any of you like a laser? I find it confusing. My wife has one on one of her guns. We’ve ranged Day with it once.. I see the benefits of have vs need.. but how often is it needed? Or purposely practical?

 

 

I stuck a Crimson Trace CMR-201 on the P2000SK that'smy bump-in-the-night gun.
I have a 2nd CMR-201 coming from the BOGOF program CT had recently.

I have a pair of cheap (literally, $5) lasers on the P30L and SR22 that I use for trigger control practice and training.
I have to re-zero the one on the P30 after every range session... it's THAT crappy

5 minutes ago, sota said:

I stuck a Crimson Trace CMR-201 on the P2000SK that'smy bump-in-the-night gun.
I have a 2nd CMR-201 coming from the BOGOF program CT had recently.

I have a pair of cheap (literally, $5) lasers on the P30L and SR22 that I use for trigger control practice and training.
I have to re-zero the one on the P30 after every range session... it's THAT crappy

I see the merit in a training aid. Haven’t used it yet for that purpose. Will do in future!

It's a lot less easier to "lie" about how stable you are when pulling the trigger with a bright red dot doing the hula across your wall.

I deliberately have mine set to shine above my front sight, so I'm basically dotting the i on the front blade.

I like a laser on my rifle, not my handgun.

15 minutes ago, Zeke said:

I see the merit in a training aid. Haven’t used it yet for that purpose. Will do in future!

I have a SIRT pistol for the training aid.

22 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

I like a laser on my rifle, not my handgun.

I have a SIRT pistol for the training aid.

Why on rifles? Not asking IR. But visible wavelength 

11 minutes ago, Zeke said:

Why on rifles? Not asking IR. But visible wavelength 

Yet another backup sighting system and it’s great for shooting with a promask. In a team environment, you can also point to stuff, ID your position, and it’s a decent deescalation tool. 

1 hour ago, High Exposure said:

Yet another backup sighting system and it’s great for shooting with a promask. In a team environment, you can also point to stuff, ID your position, and it’s a decent deescalation tool. 

Red or green?

Green DBAL A3.

3 hours ago, High Exposure said:

Yet another backup sighting system and it’s great for shooting with a promask. In a team environment, you can also point to stuff, ID your position, and it’s a decent deescalation tool. 

All agreed

BUT

I don't see a real use for one on a defensive firearm.   A quality light will do the exact same thing.

All agreed

BUT

I don't see a real use for one on a defensive firearm.   A quality light will do the exact same thing.

I can see a loved one that might not be efficient enough to perform the way we may be. My main handgun for hd is set up perfect for the house. If I’m not around, she is instructed to put the dot, (green also), on target and fire if necessary.

 

 

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Green DBAL A3.

Too expensive for my blood. Work supplied?

 

 

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1 hour ago, Ray Ray said:

All agreed

BUT

I don't see a real use for one on a defensive firearm.   A quality light will do the exact same thing.

Ray, I love you. You know I love you. But why? Why do you talk about shit that, judging by the ignorance of your absolute statements, you clearly know absolutely nothing about. 

All of my weapons are set up for defensive use (I guess you could even argue offensive use) and I find a vis laser very useful and an IR laser essential. But hey what do I know? You don’t see a need, so I guess no one needs one.

You say a white light covers all the roles I use a laser for. Really?

Riddle me this....

How does a white light act as a backup sight?

How does a white light help me aim in a promask when I can’t get a good enough cheekweld and use my red dot?

How does a white light point to a specific window/door/bush/car/structure/person that I am trying to describe to someone?

A white light does nothing that a laser does, and vice versa.

No, not everyone needs a laser. I, however, sometimes do.

Just because you don’t need one, or find it useful, doesn’t mean it is superfluous. 

1 hour ago, bhunted said:

I can see a loved one that might not be efficient enough to perform the way we may be. My main handgun for hd is set up perfect for the house. If I’m not around, she is instructed to put the dot, (green also), on target and fire if necessary.

 

 

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Too expensive for my blood. Work supplied?

 

 

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Nope, mine. Work supplies one for the work gun. I got one for the training gun.

All agreed
BUT
I don't see a real use for one on a defensive firearm.   A quality light will do the exact same thing.

I have to disagree as well. How does a flashlight aim?


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11 hours ago, bhunted said:

I can see a loved one that might not be efficient enough to perform the way we may be. My main handgun for hd is set up perfect for the house. If I’m not around, she is instructed to put the dot, (green also), on target and fire if necessary.

You just described my wife. Hell my kid is a better shot than she is.

Sorry, I don't think lasers are useful other than fun and assault teams.  

That is how I feel.  

I like my Streamlight TLR-2G on my VP9. I always laugh when I use it at the range. It's like using cheat codes. My VP9 happens to be my main HD gun. I'll take a laser at 3 AM, thank you very much. 

Sorry, I don't think lasers are useful other than fun and assault teams.  
That is how I feel.  

Why is that? If you have a good laser and properly sighted in it is point and shoot.

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Just now, capt14k said:

Why is that? If you have a good laser and properly sighted in it is point and shoot.

You don't need a third sighting system, that's why.   It's like putting 2 lights on a rifle, or two optics.  Makes zero sense, TO ME.  

But, it's your money. 

Then you don’t need iron sight either. If you do, remove your scope.

All I can say is, wait till you get older. Anything extra is always an advantage. Besides, it hurts nothing being there.

[emoji6]

 

 

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Ray, go take a quality no light, low light class that covers lasers lights and red dots and then speak from a position other than your feelings.

I personally wouldn't use a laser strictly because of shot placement.

Lets say someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night and you shoot them in the forehead using a laser as a sight. The prosecutor could potentially bring charges against you because it could be argued that your intention was to kill that person being that a reasonable person would agree that if you shoot someone in the forehead they will most likely be killed. Any halfway decent defense attorney will tell you that you never shoot to kill, you only shoot to stop that person from committing a crime or offence against you.

 

12 minutes ago, gfl216 said:

I personally wouldn't use a laser strictly because of shot placement.

Lets say someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night and you shoot them in the forehead using a laser as a sight. The prosecutor could potentially bring charges against you because it could be argued that your intention was to kill that person being that a reasonable person would agree that if you shoot someone in the forehead they will most likely be killed. Any halfway decent defense attorney will tell you that you never shoot to kill, you only shoot to stop that person from committing a crime or offence against you.

 

this is a ridiculous argument... 
a laser is the same as any other sighting system.. they could hypothetically make the same argument about sights... red dots.. scopes.. etc.. 

as HE stated..a laser has a place... I don't personally use one... but could see the value.. sometimes when shooting from an awkward position where its impossible to get behind the sights is another potential use.. 

3 hours ago, vladtepes said:

this is a ridiculous argument... 
a laser is the same as any other sighting system.. they could hypothetically make the same argument about sights... red dots.. scopes.. etc.. 

as HE stated..a laser has a place... I don't personally use one... but could see the value.. sometimes when shooting from an awkward position where its impossible to get behind the sights is another potential use.. 

Just my opinion. I'm not willing to take the chance, maybe in Texas but not in NJ.

Why do you think that you never see a cop with a laser (with the exception of special ops units)

3 minutes ago, gfl216 said:

Just my opinion. I'm not will to take the chance, maybe in Texas but not in NJ.

Why do you think that you never see a cop with a laser (with the exception of special ops units)

the same reason you don't see every cop with select fire M4s with Elcans on them.. because it is not a necessity.. and really only provides a benefit in very isolated circumstances.. and departments barely budget the things they absolutely need.. 

again.. a laser.. is a sighting system.. just like a red dot.. or iron sights.. its absurd to think it opens you up to any additional scrutiny.. 

26 minutes ago, gfl216 said:

I personally wouldn't use a laser strictly because of shot placement.

Lets say someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night and you shoot them in the forehead using a laser as a sight. The prosecutor could potentially bring charges against you because it could be argued that your intention was to kill that person being that a reasonable person would agree that if you shoot someone in the forehead they will most likely be killed. Any halfway decent defense attorney will tell you that you never shoot to kill, you only shoot to stop that person from committing a crime or offence against you.

 

Point of order here my friend. Be sure you understand what “ deadly force use” means.  There is no “ sorta deadly, could have been less deadly “ argument. 

 

2 hours ago, vladtepes said:

the same reason you don't see every cop with select fire M4s with Elcans on them.. because it is not a necessity.. and really only provides a benefit in very isolated circumstances.. and departments barely budget the things they absolutely need.. 

again.. a laser.. is a sighting system.. just like a red dot.. or iron sights.. its absurd to think it opens you up to any additional scrutiny.. 

Do you, and if it ever comes to it I hope I'm wrong.

2 hours ago, Zeke said:

Point of order here my friend. Be sure you understand what “ deadly force use” means.  There is no “ sorta deadly, could have been less deadly “ argument. 

 

"Deadly force" is not the issue. The issue is "intent"  

Just now, gfl216 said:

"Deadly force" is not the issue. The issue is "intent"  

Then don’t shoot? The “ intent” is self preservation. Hell! I’d use a light saber if I had to!

31 minutes ago, gfl216 said:

I personally wouldn't use a laser strictly because of shot placement.

Lets say someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night and you shoot them in the forehead using a laser as a sight. The prosecutor could potentially bring charges against you because it could be argued that your intention was to kill that person being that a reasonable person would agree that if you shoot someone in the forehead they will most likely be killed. Any halfway decent defense attorney will tell you that you never shoot to kill, you only shoot to stop that person from committing a crime or offence against you.

 

 You can just as easily kill someone with a shot to the leg...Just need to hit an artery. Lethal force is lethal force. Besides, if I’m in a situation that requires me to shoot, I’m aiming for whatever part of them gets me a hit and incapacitates them, whether that’s center mass or their forehead.