So i managed to get out of going to the in-laws today, wife has some family in town. We had them all over for the holiday on Thursday so i dont feel too bad.

This was my day to chill out, and do some reload'n.... Welp, aint nothing that easy. 

So i've been getting the process down for reloading .223, which thus far has been a pain in the ass. I spent a few hours prepping cases just to find out I swaged the pockets way too much, actually crushed a few pockets. High primers on a few, and loose ones in the rest. I tossed about 60 cases at that point. So i got everything set and figure i might as well deprime the 2000+ cases i have, clean and swage them all correctly. About 10 cases in hit a primer that refuses to budge, a couple taps with my brass hammer had popped them out before, NOPE. Bent the damn pin, couldnt get the case out, finally popped it with enough down force  on the press just to sear off the index pawl for the rotation of the LNL... nice! Need to order a few parts.. luckily midway has everything i need.

On the plus side, the LNL swager tool seems to work nicely, i will say... less is more, rather a tight primer than a loose. just some lessons on the importance of checking your work at each step.

8 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

So i've been getting the process down for reloading .223, which thus far has been a pain in the ass.

 

9 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

just to find out I swaged the pockets way too much,

Brah, unless you are reloading NATO brass with crimped primers, you don't need to swage it.  Maybe a lil pocket and flash hole cleaning, but swaging ain't necessary.

Its 90% federal brass, which are all crimped. Seems that every 1 in 30 pieces I get a primer that is super crimped, so far only Lake City brass is really giving me issues. for the 10% that may not be crimped, they run through the swager with little to no force...

the LC brass is NATO spec, and is crimped and sealed.  Can't say fer sure what the Federal is.  If you are not running into the same resistance with the Federal brass as you are with the LC, then I'm willing to bet it's not crimped.

Just for shits n' giggles.  Try using just a pocket cleaning brush on the brass with 223 marked on the head stamp.

Some of the LC brass is staked, those seem to be the hardest to remove, or require more swaging. Others have a noticeable crimp, I have some wolf gold thats even crimped. Honestly, it looks like most of all are crimped. There is some Remington mixed in with, those dont have a crimp, when i see them i just skip the swage.

Only NATO brass, with a real actual crimp, requires swaging. Ain't never heard of staking primers.   .223 brass is typically not swaged.  I shoot only two kinds of ammo in my AR pattern rifles.  62gr M855 and 75gr PPU OTM.  The 5.56 M855 is crimped, the .223 PPU is not.  In all honesty, I can't say this is true for all .223 ammo.

While NATO brass should have a crimp, i don't believe it is exclusive. There is plenty of .223  mixed in with crimps.

Aftr a lil google-fu, It looks like Federal crimps .223 out of some OCD issue.  I'm curious though, why is the NATO crimp harder than the crimp on commercial .223.

I also googled as I too thought only NATO ammo was crimped, but they do crimp .223 ammo intended for semi auto use to reduce the chance of catastrophic failure.

This is why I separate my .223/5.56 brass by headstamp prior to doing any press work on them.

When you load single stage (on a Rock Chucker, for example, like me) you batch process

The same steps get done to EVERYTHING in that particular batch.

For the record, I have an RCBS Small Primer Pocket brush chucked in my dremel (running at about 70% of it's lowest speed thanks to a variable transformer left over from an old job) and the metal wires in the brush do a super job cleaning primer pockets after they're sized and decapped.

If swaging is necessary (once-fired new-to-me brass only) I use the RCBS Primer Pocket Swaging combo on the Rock Chucker. I use the swaging stud (that replaces the shell holder in the top of the ram) as a tester to see what needs to be swaged and what doesn't.

Then I hand prime with an RCBS squeeze-type primer. Loose primer pockets discovered here are due to worn-out brass, not over-swaging.

With bottleneck brass (.223, .308, etc.) most of the prep work is best done on a single stage press rather than a progressive. Dumping powder and pushing bullets is by personal preference.

 

I do need a single stage, but more or less so i can do a few more steps at once to check my work With out killing time.

I end up doing single actions on the progressive anyway. 

I de-prime, and then clean in SS media. 

1-stage Swage the pockets(once fired brass)

 1-stage Resize

Trim

Progressive:

Seat Primer, although i have the K&M hand primer I may be switching to.

Drop powder

Seat Bullet 

Factory Crimp

Loading for an AR or bolt guns?

For bolt guns I don't even full resize, just neck size for the bullet.  Brass stays with that particular gun. You end up working the brass far less.

For AR, So I do the full length resize. 

I have all Milspec ammo that is just not accurate enough for my pleasure when going to the range. I'd like to see how close I can get to 1MOA out of my DMR White Oak Upper. 

I have a bunch of 68grain hornady Im curious to see how well it performs.. I have a couple super match boxes in 68gr to compare results.

My m193 and m855 can sit in the closet for a rainy day. 

 

25 minutes ago, Maksim said:

Loading for an AR or bolt guns?

For bolt guns I don't even full resize, just neck size for the bullet.  Brass stays with that particular gun. You end up working the brass far less.

Neck sizing works great as long as the brass was fired in the gun you are loading for.  I keep my rifle brass separated for this exact reason. The brass is fire formed to the particular gun when fired.

12 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

I'd like to see how close I can get to 1MOA out of my DMR White Oak Upper. 

Do yourself a favor and buy a few boxes of PPU 69gr and 75gr OTM.

 

15 minutes ago, JC_68Westy said:

Neck sizing works great as long as the brass was fired in the gun you are loading for.

Neck sizing is good for bolt action, but I don't think it's a good idea for semi-auto. you will get failure to chamber because the action does not have enough force to push the round into the chamber.  That will be a pain in the ass, but it could get worse.it   could cause an out of battery ignition.

The below is from Sierra

Quote

Neck Sizing

Neck sizing is a popular technique among accuracy-minded reloaders and frequently an effective way to improve accuracy. In essence, it amounts to sizing only the neck portion of the case while leaving the remainder of the shoulder and body untouched. This provides that “custom-fit” of the brass to chamber that so many shooters are working toward. Chambering a cartridge that has been neck-sized will normally give some slight resistance to closing the bolt. This is perfectly normal and to be expected when using this technique. While it’s a minor detail with the powerful camming forces of a bolt-action, this can be a serious problem with a service rifle. It can cause a failure to fully seat and chamber, effectively jamming the rifle. If the lugs have partially engaged, this can be a very difficult stoppage to clear. Under extreme circumstances, it can even lead to a slam-fire. The solution to these aggravating and potentially dangerous problems is simple: Don’t neck size for semi-auto rifles. For any reason. Ever. Whatever minor accuracy improvements are gained —and there is not always an improvement — are more than offset by the problems that are going to occur. Neck sizing is perhaps the best single illustration of a technique that is beneficial for a bolt-action, but is dangerously out of place in a Service Rifle. Stick to full length sizing—ALWAYS—when reloading for autoloaders.

 

 

I should have clarified that I do this with my hunting rifles (bolt, lever and pump) not semi-autos.


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What brand swager are you using ?  Is it mounted to sturdy bench ?  once set all pockets should be same size one thing you can run into different brands can have different rim which can change the length so separating brass would be wise.  Also cci primers tend to be harder which can make them harder to seat. if pockets are tight federal primer which is softer will tend to seat easier. Wolf primers also seat well in tight pockets. Remington primers are also on the hard side. 

Edit that also works in opposite if pocket is large the federal and wolf will be loose.  

On 11/25/2018 at 10:56 AM, JackDaWack said:

I do need a single stage, but more or less so i can do a few more steps at once to check my work With out killing time.

I end up doing single actions on the progressive anyway. 

I de-prime, and then clean in SS media. 

1-stage Swage the pockets(once fired brass)

 1-stage Resize

Trim

Progressive:

Seat Primer, although i have the K&M hand primer I may be switching to.

Drop powder

Seat Bullet 

Factory Crimp

Just curious as to why you wet tumble before swage pp, resize and trim?

I wet tumble after all the prep is done prior to reloading. Not saying my process is better just wanting to know why you do it in this order.

thanks.

 

I deprime and then wet tumble. My reasoning is that I have clean brass to work with through the entire process. I use Hornady one shot case lube, so I don't need to clean them after. 

When I was reading up, some people either cleaned the brass twice, or would put dirty brass through the dies and clean prior to case assembly.

Since I'm new to bottle neck reloading, I decided this might be a good place to start. 

I've gotten everything dialed in now and running smoothly.

2 hours ago, tony357 said:

What brand swager are you using ?  Is it mounted to sturdy bench ?  once set all pockets should be same size one thing you can run into different brands can have different rim which can change the length so separating brass would be wise.  Also cci primers tend to be harder which can make them harder to seat. if pockets are tight federal primer which is softer will tend to seat easier. Wolf primers also seat well in tight pockets. Remington primers are also on the hard side. 

Edit that also works in opposite if pocket is large the federal and wolf will be loose.  

I'm using the Hornady swager assembly for the LNL, and it definitely has a taper on. Too much will make the pocket loose, and you can also crush the pocket itself with the case seat. I'm using a hand primer now, and taking out just enough crimp to get them to seat. 

I am also separating the process by brass now, definitely more consistent as the LC brass has a harder to remove crimp. Other cases seem to require much less.

I also load the cci 5.56 primers. So they are very hard.

4 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

I'm using the Hornady swager assembly for the LNL, and it definitely has a taper on. Too much will make the pocket loose, and you can also crush the pocket itself with the case seat. I'm using a hand primer now, and taking out just enough crimp to get them to seat. 

I am also separating the process by brass now, definitely more consistent as the LC brass has a harder to remove crimp. Other cases seem to require much less.

I also load the cci 5.56 primers. So they are very hard.

separating the brass should yield you better results.  over time you will get a feel for how they should be by pressure used to swag. if it is tight you know you have a tight primer pocket, loose not much pressure that pocket will be loose I throw them into different boxes according to swag pressure real loose one I throw in the trash can.

On 11/24/2018 at 8:46 PM, Scorpio64 said:

Only NATO brass, with a real actual crimp, requires swaging. Ain't never heard of staking primers.   .223 brass is typically not swaged.  I shoot only two kinds of ammo in my AR pattern rifles.  62gr M855 and 75gr PPU OTM.  The 5.56 M855 is crimped, the .223 PPU is not.  In all honesty, I can't say this is true for all .223 ammo.

Some military ammo has staked primers.  Usually 3 points around the primer.  The Greek HXP is staked IIRC.  Many find they don't even need to clean that up when reloading.