STUPID, IDIOTIC, ASININE

ATF Changes Form 4473

PROPOSED FORM

Someone gets paid a lot of money to rearrange the boxes on this stupid form........

I can tell you this - IF a person checks off "Non-Binary" in the Sex section - I'm not giving them a gun - period!

 

Hold on the Federal Government is recognizing “Non-Binary” as a sex ?

It would appear that way, but this is only a draft. I will possibly be edited or even (hopefully) scrapped.......

 

1 hour ago, JT Custom Guns said:

I can tell you this - IF a person checks off "Non-Binary" in the Sex section - I'm not giving them a gun - period!

 

While I agree these changes are ridiculous it's not cool to deny someone their right to exercise 2A because they identify as "non binary" probably illegal too. 

1 hour ago, fishnut said:

While I agree these changes are ridiculous it's not cool to deny someone their right to exercise 2A because they identify as "non binary" probably illegal too. 

No - it's not illegal, a Federally lic dealer has the discretion for any reason to deny someone a gun.

As for you feeling that it's not "cool" to deny someone their 2A rights; I would not deny any upstanding citizen (male, female, straight, gay,ect.) of their 2A rights, but if a person is not able to tell if they are male or female, then in my opinion they are not mentally capable of having a firearm. That may be my opinion, but it is mine, and I am entitled to use my discretion............

1 hour ago, JT Custom Guns said:

I can tell you this - IF a person checks off "Non-Binary" in the Sex section - I'm not giving them a gun - period!

 

I hope you are joking.

4 minutes ago, WP22 said:

I hope you are joking.

I am not.............

Just now, JT Custom Guns said:

I am not.............

Ok then, it' your business and your business.

Just now, WP22 said:

Ok then, it' your business and your business.

Exactly!

4 hours ago, PK90 said:

STUPID, IDIOTIC, ASININE

 

  must have taken their cue from jersey..

wasn't this fight already fought to SCOTUS,  something about a wedding cake in Colorado?

I saw it on ARFCOM they’re going nuts over there. 

I'll have put up a new sign on the shop bathroom.

 

Please don't............

 

FYI - I saw and had to photograph this sign on the public restroom door, when we visited the Wooden Nickel Pub in Hillsborough, NC for the first time a couple of years ago for lunch.  It is now one of our regular stops on our drive down from NJ to visit relatives in Chapel Hill, NC.
This whole conundrum was created and became a national issue, when the North Carolina state legislature brought up their controversial public restroom bill banning transgender folks from using a public restroom that is different from their gender at their birth. 
I think that this pub responded in an elegant and humorous manner.  Personally, I could not care less what gender someone thinks they are as long as they do not bother me.  As far as I am concerned, there are many more issues that are far more important for all of us to be worried about and motivated to do something to address.....

AVB-AMG

1 hour ago, AVB-AMG said:

This whole conundrum was created and became a national issue, when the North Carolina state legislature brought up their controversial public restroom bill banning transgender folks from using a public restroom that is different from their gender at their birth. 

Actually, no. The issue was "created" by a male-to-female high-school aged transgender in the Chicago suburbs (who was still anatomically male, but insisted on using not just the female bathrooms, but the female locker rooms as well). Female students and parents filed a law suit because they didn't want a guy in the locker room. Some states like North Carolina believed that the LGBTQ social movement would NEVER stop there... so they passed these laws as a firewall of sorts. 

I personally don't find it "amusing" in the least as you seem to. I used to consider myself, yes, believe it or not - one of those LGBTQ "allies" - I had (and still have) many gay friends and have a "live and let live" attitude about things. But, the more I'm watching the transgender issue in particular, the more ticked off I'm getting... I see young girls and women getting absolutely STEAMROLLED by these (I'm sorry) - GUYS who "feel" like girls. Girls/women are losing their bodily privacy, losing sports competitions, losing sports records, losing college scholarships, losing the very definition of "woman"... and if they "dare" to raise any objections, they're shut down with claims of bigotry by the trans activists.  In other countries who have moved even further than the US on this issue - the results have been truly horrific - cases of women attacked/raped by MTF trans in shelters and in prisons. Can you imagine?... a woman so vulnerable, she escapes to a domestic violence shelter - and she is then RAPED by some guy in a dress placed in the next bed? What a freaking horror show! AVB, you're a big guy - you look at life VERY differently than a small framed female. The risk factor is entirely different. You should be more sensitive to that. It's not a laughing issue.

 

7 hours ago, AVB-AMG said:

As far as I am concerned, there are many more issues that are far more important for all of us to be worried about and motivated to do something to address.....

Yea, like how screwed up NJ is getting under the Murphy administration but since you took the time to respond to this post how about this...

Here’s one problem with gender issue as I see it. The image below is from our township’s website. A NJ Firearms applicant is compelled answer the name question with “Joe” instead of “Joseph” or “Jen” instead of “Jenifer” and will likely be rejected for not answering correctly. Now compare that with the same authority now saying it perfectly OK not to check the M or F box.  I see that as a inconsistency.

 

 

 

 

On 12/30/2019 at 6:04 PM, JT Custom Guns said:

No - it's not illegal, a Federally lic dealer has the discretion for any reason to deny someone a gun.

As for you feeling that it's not "cool" to deny someone their 2A rights; I would not deny any upstanding citizen (male, female, straight, gay,ect.) of their 2A rights, but if a person is not able to tell if they are male or female, then in my opinion they are not mentally capable of having a firearm. That may be my opinion, but it is mine, and I am entitled to use my discretion............

If, as a licensed dealer, you feel the applicant’s mental stability is in question, it is reasonable to refuse to sell the person a firearm.

Prepared to be sued if the prospective buyer is told they were refused because of that answer.  But your decision would be justifiable.

But more importantly, as FXDX pointed out, if the buyer answers that question differently than is shown on a DL, he/she absolutely should be denied the sale.  In fact, if a licensed dealer ignores that discrepancy, wouldn’t they put their license at risk?

3 hours ago, Kevin125 said:

But more importantly, as FXDX pointed out, if the buyer answers that question differently than is shown of a DL, he/she absolutely should be denied the sale. 

So, your saying that if a DL states that a customer is 190 pounds and they put 230 pounds down on the form, the sale should be denied? 

It doesn't matter what they put on the form in those identifying fields. They can be obvious Black and claim they are White, etc. Who am I to question Race, Gender, Weight, POB, etc.

I wasn’t referring to a DL but if the state, local gov or feds are going to be hard-ons with Joe vs Joseph thing then they should use the same standard for the gender ID. The only way “Non-Binary” should be accepted is if the applicant is packing the gear of both the male & female sex, AKA hermaphrodite. Maybe they could create a Civil Service title and pay them 150K a year to do gear check on this one, that would be a fun job

19 hours ago, Mrs. Peel said:

I see young girls and women getting absolutely STEAMROLLED by these (I'm sorry) - GUYS who "feel" like girls. Girls/women are losing their bodily privacy, losing sports competitions, losing sports records, losing college scholarships, losing the very definition of "woman"... and if they "dare" to raise any objections, they're shut down with claims of bigotry by the trans activists.  In other countries who have moved even further than the US on this issue - the results have been truly horrific - cases of women attacked/raped by MTF trans in shelters and in prisons. Can you imagine?... a woman so vulnerable, she escapes to a domestic violence shelter - and she is then RAPED by some guy in a dress placed in the next bed? 

 

The number of transsexual people is witheringly small as a portion of the population. They also tend to be the victims of violence rather than the perpetrator of same. 

The real problem is that a lot of the policies and laws being made about them leaves the entire process to be self determined and that you are obligated to take the person's word for it. 

They don't let someone pursue gender reassignment surgery without significant psychological review, yet everything but that is "take their word for it".  Unfortunately every scumbag who thinks unsolicited dick pics are an appropriate hello on the internet and the kiddy diddlers out there aren't of particularly high moral or ethical standards and will happily ignore or exploit the laws that exist. They also likely outnumber the gender dysphoria population. 

Unfortunately none of the legislation is really about helping anyone. It's about leveraging identity politics for power and control. If it breaks the existing system and allows those who changed the rules to be able to point at anyone they feel like and other them or actual make them criminals then they achieved their goal. 

 

How bout when at the purchase point you drop your pants and:

If it`s there your male

If it`s missing your female

If it`s been removed completely your a "what" a "binary"?????????

11 minutes ago, Bt Doctur said:

How bout when at the purchase point you drop your pants and:

If it`s there your male

If it`s missing your female

If it`s been removed completely your a "what" a "binary"?????????

Actually, I believe you can still have your basic equipment, but if you choose to not be male or female; as in you tell everyone you are neither even though you are - you are binary. In other words, you choose to lie about your sex..........

And the obsession over what's in between someone's legs instead of mind their own damn business continues.

Agreed. Freaks will be freaks. Take their money and move on.

45 minutes ago, Greenday said:

And the obsession over what's in between someone's legs instead of mind their own damn business continues.

Sometimes you amaze me.

2 hours ago, Greenday said:

And the obsession over what's in between someone's legs instead of mind their own damn business continues.

So. If ffls are supposed to help with the number of fun deaths by suicide, and non gender confirming individuals have significantly higher rates of suicide, should they or should they not exercise discretion in selling them a gun? especially with the antis trying to bring their efforts to ban firearms by bankrupting manufacturers and retailers with lawsuits?

 

 

male = male, female = female!  u can identify whatever the f*ck you want, but your DNA never changes, even on hormones.  So again, your either MALE or FEMALE!  (if neither, ur confused)