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You are looking at this all wrong, I think. The politicians (and their puppet masters) are not as concerned about handguns as they are rifles. The 2A is all about the citizen soldier (NOT hunting, NOT competition, NOT recreation). 2A empowering us NOT to overthrow our government but to have the ability to forcefully remove corrupt and dangerous power mongers in government and get the ship back on a correct constitutional course. 2A is meant for average citizens to protect the constitution and make sure the government is by the people and for the people, which is theoretically run by you, me and joe schmo. The government has been aggregating too much power, under the guise of protecting the people, and chipping away at the constitution one or two thin slices of freedom at a time. Taking military style rifles away from the legitimate "irregular militia" greatly weakens the ability of citizens to defend their freedoms. That is what is going on here. While we are looking at what they are doing today, and planning for tomorrow, we are not seeing their long game. While we are loosing ground fighting these unconstitutional laws that seem to be two steps back and one step forward, we are not seeing the ultimate goal of disarmament. Simply put, the person who wins a fight is usually the one with the longest arms (no pun intended). They want to be able to hit us before we can hit them and if they can achieve that then they will be in a position to totally dominate us.

NEGATIVE IMO - The weakness of the state organizations to effectively task the legislative branches of government in this state in the past, has brought us to this point. Their feckless attempt at pressuring, negotiating, 'banking on' one or two people, engaging and wasting funds and time in other nonsensical ventures that have no bearing IN STATE- (NH Lawsuit) - has brought us to this point. Their ineptitude of leadership - their disdain for anything black or tactical (my opinion of them) - their back door meetings - their lack of a long term strategic plan to engage and attempt to push back on the encroachment over the years - has brought us to this point Their lack of having the fortitude to duke it out in court against a wildly out of control legislature - has brought us to this point See where I am going - NOT ONE STATE ORGANIZATION WILL GET ANOTHER DIME OF MY MONEY *IN* NJ, *IF* they do not bring any suits - Donations should dry up to the ANJRPC, NRA etc. and/or any other organization, not willing to take a valid legal fight (not this sappa game) to the courts to attempt to break the backs of the legislature. And these are my thoughts......w shall see.

Their going to have to build more jails.

Even going to 10 would be a kick in the nads

There is an exemption if you have a FID: You’re allowed to grab someone else’s ankles , but you have to go through an FFL

Maybe there's a lesson in there... for every single one of these ridiculous cases in NJ (or NY, CA, etc.)... immediate coordination with the NRA should take place and they should begin the PR machine rolling. I'm pleased to see the results in this case - as a dues paying member, I'd be really happy to see it happen even more. Yeah, yeah, I know... it would be nice if we didn't have these crazy laws at all. But in the meantime, there needs to be firm pushback against these overzealous, frothing at the mouth, anti-2A prosecutors. Enough is enough!

Okay, if NJ is a lost cause, then what? Move to PA? Believe it or not, PA is roughly #10 with the strictest gun laws. They are not far behind NJ, maybe a decade or two until their laws are just as bad. If you look at a US political map, PA is the next organ to become infected with the liberal cancer. Sure, there's a lot of deer hunters in PA that could not give a rat's ass that your AR-15 becomes banned as long as they can continue hunting with their bolt action rifles. Until the government decides that bolt action rifles are too dangerous for people to have. In fact, the Texas State massacre was carried out with a bolt action rifle. Kennedy was assassinated with a bolt action rifle, so clearly they are a threat to public safety. That will be the next argument after they have taken your AR15. There is not one single state that is a lost cause because the cause is not limited to one state. Moving to PA, or some other 2A friendlier state (for now) and putting all the worry behind you, all that accomplishes is delaying the inevitable. Even though you put it behind you does not mean it will not eventually catch up to you again. The NRA should be fighting the hardest in NJ, CA, NY and CT because that's where the battle has the highest stakes. If they cannot prevent an AR ban in NJ, they can't prevent an AR ban anywhere.

Alec, I consider you a friend. I've known you since we both began shooting steel matches. BUT, Just because all you own is revolvers doesn't mean you can throw the rest of us under the bus. Please, don't be apart of the "we eat our own" crowd.

They aren't.

LEO's wont be going door to door to make sure you turn in your newly illegal items. If something happens in your residence and your weapons come under scrutiny, the prosecutor WILL seek to prosecute the charges against you. This is how they continue to pass these laws and let them blow over without anyone really raising a defense. They have time on their side, disarmament wont be instant but over generations.

already here. since 2000. which is why we should be looking to commifornia and what their groups/attorneys did to stop nearly every half assed law last year.

If the A-Team used it, must be too dangerous to be in the hands of "common" folks. I think that is their logic.....because nothing else makes any sense. "I pity da' fool who tries to take my Mini 14!"

She wasn't waiting for a LTC she was waiting for a permit to purchase.

They added the Ruger Mini 14 to the prohibited list too I just noticed. Geez... not leaving us anything are they...

Yes. First they were going for 5 then realized most revolvers were 6, then they changed to 7 until they realized there were no 7 round mags. They settled on 10 round mags only loaded to 7. Court struck it down and 10 is now the limit in NY. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

you know why they did just like i know why they did. they're not as fucked up as you think. they want to make shooting as miserable as they can.

After a quick scan... I predict the one that they WON'T pass is the "10-20-Life" law. That seems to add substantial years onto other serious criminal sentences (murder, kidnapping, etc.) if you also used a gun to hurt or threaten someone during that crime. Soooo... more likely than not, what that law would do is lock up an awful lot of bad guys (gangbangers, etc). for a VERY long time. That sounds... dare I say, sort of logical. So, yeah, they probably won't pass that one. Someone will squawk about how it further oppresses disadvantaged men of color... or some other crap.

#MeToo I feel I have been assaulted by the state. Can Oprah come defend me?

Lawsuits and Non-Compliance is the only way we win. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Tagged. Waiting for the anti-NRA assholes to post here.

Aka deny everyone that' not a retired cop or judge.

https://www.franklinarmory.com/collections/complete-firearms/products/franklin-armory-xo-26-s matbe NJ legal like the shockwave? Comes with NFA letter that says no stamp required

It seems many of you are fans of the John Wick movies. They're turning it into a TV series. They don't know yet if Keanu Reeves will make any appearances, but he's a co-producer of the new series... and it keeps the same director too... so it promises to have very much the same style in terms of elaborately staged, action-packed shootouts, etc. Here's the link: https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/john-wick-tv-series-in-the-works-at-starz/ar-AAuBWRH?li=AA2qN5v&ocid=spartanntp&ffid=gz

You are talking about people that don't know a clip from a magazine nor an adjustable stock from a telescoping stock. Not to mention the foldy thing that goes up

If hottie Keanu isn't in it, I'm out.

When @PK90 chimes in, we'll find out more.

Again, they are posturing, so when they don't ban Garand rifles, they will be claiming how "reasonable" and compromising they are being and they did us a big huge favor for which they want us to suck their dicks. Two steps back, one step forward is still going backwards, until there is no more room to move back. Eventually we will be so far back, our backs will be against a wall.

Says 1:7 in the description

Get ready..my understanding is that these are only the beginning. Get ready for a semi auto shotgun ban, HD length shotgun ban and many more. Hopefully I will have an address out of state by the end of the year so I don't have to deal with this anymore. This state is a lost cause.

What gave you the impression that I was throwing anybody under the bus? Asking a specific question that I found confusing to the way the new proposed law is written that would pertain to me personally , doesnt mean that I want this law to pass. I was honestly confused about if 8 shot revolvers would become illegal. Ray, dont forget who was standing next to you at the protests in Trenton while it was freezing rain in the middle of winter.

well, unregistered ones such as his are illegal federally. I believe feds did pick up some charges after he was done with his state charges.

We join these organizations because we expect leadership from them. I have not seen a whole lot of leadership from the NRA. I have no idea what the NRA does outside of NJ, don't know, don't care. All I know is what they do inside of NJ, which is practically nothing. Why should I join an organization that does nothing for me. AFAIC the NRA is not much better than a mafia protection racket. You cannot join most ranges in NJ without being a member so you are forced to pay to play. But when you look to them for leadership, they are nowhere to be found. And don't give me the NJ is a lost cause bullshit. Normandy beach was considered impregnable. Many brave men assaulted the beach and opened a doorway to europe for allied forces to kick Nazi ass. The cost was high, many thousands were killed, but we did it anyway because it HAD TO BE DONE. Nobody wants to become a casualty of the 2A fight in NJ, nobody wants to stick out their necks. Why is that? I'll tell you why. Because the NRA is not a good leader, we have no faith in the NRA and people will not follow a leader they have no faith in. People are not copping out, they are opting out.

Honestly .. Yes. My whole collection is 8 shot revolvers, It's pretty much all I own. If the law gets shot down to 5 rounds for everything, I need would need to " sell " nearly ALL of my firearms, everybody else ( talking semi auto people here ) would just need to pin their magazines. So yes, there is a big difference here. Regardless though, I do not wish for any more gun laws here.

It doesn't But it makes the legislators (our beloved leaders) feel like they're doing something to level the playing field, making the former law abiding public (us) as criminal as those who currently buy from the Juan, Jose and Deshawn Gun Shop (the 66 Impala on this corner tonight and the 72 Caddy on that corner tomorrow night) where the only paperwork involved is green. Juan, Jose and Deshawn's customers carry all the time without regard for the requirements of 2C:39 and 58, so to keep parity, it's just about time for us to do the same. The law of unintended consequences is going to come back and bite our beloved leaders in the ass. I only hope I'm still around to see it.

The important thing is how it self identifies...

How does making me helpless make criminals harmless?

I do not disagree with you in spririt that gun owners are like that - HOWEVER the state organizations - and OR NRA affiliate - is the body the is all encompassing and makes no difference what the individuals say they supposedly represent all. So ask yourself this - why is ok for USPSA to run at Shongum and other places - why is it ok for knockdown steel at CJRPC - BUT at the state affiliate range CR - no real plates, no IDPA/USPSA - no 3 gun - nothing that is forward thinking - BUT legacy shooting sports....makes you wonder - but that is for another thread.

The exact statute was already posted by another Patriot (ty MaintainenceGuy). But Siccardi isn't where it started. It started with Sills & quickly went downhill from there. Although I consider myself to be a bit of an Expert in this area, Mark Cheeseman, a former member of The Party of Six, is a regular pit bull when it comes to "Justifiable Need". A self-made Expert (by applying TWICE & being DENIED twice for a NJ carry permit after witnessing a felony across the street from his residence & being threatened by the Perps!), Cheeseman is currently a co-founder (along with CNJFO's Treasurer Jack Pyle, CPA) of a Foundation (New Jersey Gun Owner Rights Foundation) that's looking to sue NJ & blow this scheme all to hell! Mark is a friend of mine & we speak and exchange ideas & tactics regularly. Mark runs a Facebook Group Page called "New Jersey Firearm Owners Syndicate". This page has EVERYTHING anyone would desire on Justifiable Need. There is NONE better! Step-by-step, from the beginnings almost a century ago, Mark has outlined the mindset, decisions, codes, laws, and the current state of affairs on the NJ CCW battlefield. When the Coalition was formed, "Justifiable Need" was set firmly in our gun sights! It's in our wheelhouse. We pay to maintain a sister web site to aid gun owners and the public at-large with a better understanding of the scourge of "Justifiable Need": http://www.JustifiableNeed.com . It's not as comprehensive OR confusing as trying to interpret actual NJ gun law statutes, but it gets the point across how bad Justifiable Need is and why common NJ folks are dying because of it! At the end, we have a way to communicate directly with NJ Legislators in an effort to END the SCHEME. I know you & I have had our differences of opinion on how best to promote the Coalition, but in the spirit or cooperation, let's put all of that behind us & work together for the benefit of everyone! I hope you find the above useful in some way. Thanks for being an Instructor, Mentor & 2A Patriot! Rosey

Hopefully the quarter million dollar man at ANJRPC doesn't sell us out and say it could have been worse. Additionally, it's not a compromise when you get nothing in return. What say you, @gunforhire? P.S. I have cold weather gear and a shitton of sick days. I'm ready to march.

Unfortunately Murphy will have a blank check with the democratic state senate. I feel it will be as bad to the degree we're hoping it would ever become. It seems NJ is a knee jerk reactionary state to every trending issue. Do they expect thousand of firearms owners to start plugging magazines or turning in ARs. Although Murphy is a buffoon not only on gun issues but, his stance on immigration and legalizing marijuana seem to be his big goal. The shooting community comprises a small population of NJ. The mindset of the average NJ resident seems to be in some kind of static state. I put a lot of this on the ignorant populace of NJ residents for voting for this left leaning poor example of a governor. Have you ever gotten into a discussion with someone who's not a gun owner? They can't relate to us. Tell someone who's a smoker that's anti gun how would you like it if you can only buy a carton every 30 days. Ask an avid TV couch potato how would you like a limit on TV viewing time you're wasting too much energy. Here's one for the chronic gambler you know, your gambling will be monitored especially if you're on Social Security. The maximum speed limit is 65mph, there should be a ban on cars whose speedometer goes up to 140 or 160mph. I think you might start to see an eventual closing of some firearm stores and stores like Dicks etc. will stop selling firearms and related products.The small FFL who dabbles for extra income and enjoys it just for the comradery what's left in it for them when things get tighter. Scrutinizing firearm owners is easy and to the common average NJ citizen who are oblivious to the world around them will clap like trained seals for this Jerry Brown wanna be and, Murphy said it more than once, he wants to make NJ just like CA, so take it from there. I can see it now on the internet relating to firearms ,ammo etc. NO SALES TO NJ. If you can't make a major life change to move out of NJ like a lot of us can't presently, there's not much to look forward to for firearm owners in NJ.

Not for long.

And I hope all those 2A orgs seeking membership/donations have their lawyers lined up and lawsuits ready

If you’re referring to the Party of Six/Almeida case, I understand it feels like it, but that’s not what happened. Party of Six had several of the plaintiffs drop out of the case (without getting permits). Almeida was granted his, so without other plaintiffs with standing the case couldn’t go further.

Heres the easy guide to getting your CCW in NJ. Shhh, don't tell anyone though, don't want just anyone to get one! Are you rich? Are you powerful? Are you politically connected? Are you currently dead? Are you, by name, currently and publicly on ISIS' "most wanted dead" list? Have you (or are you currently) been kidnapped by angry bikers because you acidentally scuffed the bike belonging to Skullbasher (the biker gang's leader)? If you answered no to any of those questions, then you will not be getting a NJ CCW. If you answered yes to *all* of the above questions, you might qualify. However, there IS another way in NJ. You can carry concealed in NJ all the time - without a permit - as long as you are committing other crimes and/or have a criminal record, then it is apparently just fine!* *Jail time may still occur, YMMV, not responsible for loss of life/family/friends/freedom/time/job/legal fees/money/guns/etc, i am not a lawyer, etc. Does not qualify for legal NJ gun owners.

Here's the Catch-22: If you survived previous attacks, it's obvious you don't need carry. You've already proven that! In reality, you need to have been killed in an attack. Then they'll grant it posthumously

I dunno...I don't like the look of a rail on a lever gun. That gun also looks like it should be chambered in something a lot bigger than .357.

Beretta 1301 for $640 http://tsswarehouse.com/shop/beretta-1301-tactical-12ga-3-18-5-ic-ghost-ring-blk-syn-beretta-j131t18/

Reality! We have had several significant setbacks over the past 5 years, but we have finally started the block walls 2 days ago. It has been a long journey but will be worth the wait for everyone.

No Jersey Lens here. If Lesniak wants to make possession of firearm legal make it legal. Not a no minimum time crime. I know more so than most on this forum if a criminal pleas guilty the firearms charge is usually dropped. The criminal still goes away for the robbery, assault, or whatever else they did. There are many more career criminals that get caught with possession of a firearm as the only charge. If that's the only charge there is nothing left to plea with. Lesniak is one of the go to guys in the Democratic Party in NJ if you want to run for office and need money. When he was the victim of an armed robbery about 10 years ago he used the occasion to comment how having a gun does you no good if you are victimized. If you think he's proposing this as something good for legal gun owners you've already sipped his Kool Aid. Yes a firearm is a tool. A hammer is designed to drive nails. A firearm is designed as a weapon. Firearms were not invented for 3 gun, USPSA, or other games (not that there's anything wrong with games). Firearms are weapons that belong in the hands of law abiding citizens. Lesniak's bs proposal does nothing for gun rights. It's designed to let the criminals walk not save gun owners from jail.