Maksim

Thanks for those. I do like the EAA guns, but those are the ones that had issues with 10mm pounding. The sig looks damn sexy.... and can't believe I did not remember that smith.

Shane, I have read most of the report and there is nothing new there... and everything we know.... "By transitioning from pad pressure to tip pressure, the trigger finger flexes or bends. Also, the associated increase in grip pressure causes all of the fingers of the strong hand to flex, further increasing the flex or bend of the trigger finger. When the firearm is finally removed from the holster, this bend in the trigger finger positions the trigger fmger for contact with the trigger or hovering near the trigger. This factor, in conjunction with the shooter's perceived need to quickly complete the draw and engage his or her target, creates a situation that can and has included negligent discharges." Further.... the groups they used for the study... new people.. Page 13. Brand new shooters don't have the training in place... and yes, the Serpa with certain guns puts the finger very close to the trigger. With other holsters, they would draw it differently then place finger.... However... look at the many people who shoot any type of matches that DO have NDs... it is from trying to shoot too quickly or to cut down that time. Are there better designs for holsters? Perhaps, and for certain guns, absolutely safer holster exist... but it does not mean we should be screaming for people to ban the holsters for everyone. Training training training. But you would figure with as many Serpa holsters as there are out there... people would be killed every day.

That is a great point to consider. Remember "MySpace"? or the America Online portal and chat rooms? Where FB is different is that they are the first to truly effectively monetize their data.... however people do burn out of platforms. In reality, FaceBook provides nothing of value in terms of search, and focuses on the instant gratification aspect. Unlike say a car forum or whatever, where you can search and find out how to change something with the car, do maintenance, etc... and oh BTW, if you like it enough.... there is also a community there. For instance, right now... about 45% of the forum visits are people searching for something on Google, and ending up on NJGF. This is why media companies are formed, such as Internet Brands, that buy out any forum they can find..... they monetize their investment by plastering 20 banner ads on the site... and collect the money. They don't care about the "community"...., because even if the community fails, they still get 80%+ traffic from people searching for something....

Good point.... and sometimes easy to forget. I think the majority of the folks focus on the ND side of it... which I completely disagree with and can be overcome with training. Yes... SERPA will just show and exploit that bad training.... but the lock itself does not cause the ND. The Lockup of the serpa design... I agree with. Even though I have personally not experienced it.... I have seen it at the range once myself, where a piece of gravel got into the space and caused it to lock up.

Just an FYI, this thread was split into a separate issue AK started regarding firearms training which can be found here. http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/80485-ccw-training-debate/

Just a thought on the free flow of information and free speech. Anyone who opened a facebook account and clicked "I agree" gave up their 1st amendment right there.

Ois vai.... now I know why people call for your head. =) But don't worry there is hope. Why do you saying Florida's requirements are lax? Then what would you say for AZ, AK or Vermont? with constitutional carry? Or what about PA? where you need a piece of paper? Florida is actually fairly strict on CCW and carry laws. the problem with your arguement is that you provide no solutions. Lastly, concealed carry and personal defense is a RIGHT... it is not a privilege like driving. The moment you start restricting carry, you turn into NJ. I don't know about you... but I feel safer in a cowboy state like AZ and Texas than I do in NJ. Even though I agree, that people SHOULD have plenty of CCW training, I am ABSOLUTELY AGAINST REQUIREMENTS.

btw... what did you shoot that with?

Amazing. Howard, are you going to go there again? Would love to come out and shoot with you. (cameras). lol.

I think we talked about this at length before. Really it comes down to the gun and the skills with it. Plenty of morons shoot themselves or have an ND WITHOUT Serpa as they try to quick draw and go for it. YES, with some guns like Glocks, the lock is placed right on the trigger, but take a 1911 for instance... there is no way unless you are explicitly trying to.... the serpa lock places your finger on the frame/slide, not trigger guard. The majority of NDs I have seen at major matches.... that came on the draw.... were not drawn from a Serpa.

and a quick sidenote for new members.... and this is also why... certain sections of the site, such as the 1st Amendment lounge, the premier member forums and the marketplace forums are NOT accessible to search engines and archives. The only way to see the info is if you are a member and login, either with a password to the 1a lounge, or are a premier member for the two premier member lounges. The marketplace is only accessible to logged in members.

AVB, and others, First and foremost thank you for starting this topic again, and for the insights. Honestly I am impressed with how many people do not use facebook. Twitter is understandable as it is a more niche platform. Personally, I am on FB and Twitter, however out of the two I spend more time on Twitter and will get into why. As far as FB, I am there because I once enjoyed it, back 14 years ago when it just came to my university and it was the range to see and find the cute girl next to you in class. Over the years, as more and more people got on FB, it became information overload. What was once a great place to get good info and serious discussions, turned into a place to post pictures of what you ate, how the other political party is evil, etc. What FB does bring though is convenience, much like Tapatalk does for mobile forums. It is one place where you have a whole bunch of stuff. FB has further made it a deal to let folks create and organize groups. Let's be honest, it takes time and energy to set up a forum community from scratch, never the less the money, and quite frankly if I had to do it over again, I don't think I would be able to with a family. Now think about your local mommy group, etc. That is the facebook value proposition. Now it did take what "meetup.com" was trying to do and really made it bigger. The problems... well as you said, FB exists today.... as a data analytics and marketing company, which, as long as FB is still around, may grow revenues above even google. Why? Quality and granularity of those analytics. Say you are a business owner who sells widgets. You can go to google and subscribe to adsense, and you can tell them I want my ad to appear to people coming from this geographic area, searching for this keyword. With Facebook, I can go and say... I want my (ad/poll) to appear to Females between the ages of 28 & 32, who live within 10 miles of 08540 zip code, who are married, with children, whose interests are (x, y, and Z) based on their (groups/pages/events), and I want that add to send them to my (fb page/group/event/poll/website). I want to pay based on (per click/per impressions)... etc. How does FB get that level of data? You gave it to them of course through your profiles, the groups you join, etc. So as a business owner, you almost need to be on facebook because you can target who you want... and well folks expect you to be on there with a least a company page.... which is why I am on FB. The 5 mins a day I am on there are merely to update to my biz page and if anything on the NJGF page. Twitter is a different beast, and was never really designed to be like FB. while FB is about interaction.... Twitter is more like Screaming in the middle of the mall, hoping to get attention. The bigger the audience, the more folks will listen, and even still, they have short attention spans. What Twitter really is about is two things now. 1. Real Time search engine. 2. Video live streaming. If you want to know what is going on.... just search on twitter. You can see in real time what people are saying and sharing about almost any topic. Very popular now during elections and other events, say a big match, etc. Unlike FB, you can see everyone's updates... not just your "friends". The second part is Periscope and live streaming, which is the next evolution of youtube. We will see if there will be wide adoption of this... but I am hopeful. I am a fan of Twitter and use it myself for both personal and business purposes. Twitter Profile and recently started posting a link to Twitter for our new topics here with search tags. NJGF Twitter Profile As far as here... well, None of your information on the forum is ever sold or shared with anyone (except when you sign up and use the forum through tapatalk where info passes through their servers). The only advertising here is the two banner ads for guests and regular members. Premier members see ZERO banner ads, and will not as long as I am around. This is actually the big difference in overall mantra... we do not require anything more than your email address and a username to participate. How much information you provide is up to you. Most members here will at least share their first name, and use that basis to grow their relationships. Your anti gun friends and family members would not be able to see where you participate, etc... ie the choice is on you how much you want to share. This is why I never really understood posting pictures of your own guns on FB with your own name on it... for everyone to see, and FB to archive. lol. I guess if ALL of your friends are gun owners, it is one thing.... but I do know that many of my contacts on FB or more importantly friends of my wife are more liberal, and just not worth it to me. Ie.... I can post a picture of my child here with a gun, or my cat staring at the muzzle of a mosin... and you guys and gals would find it funny or cute. If I post it on FB, I would have DYFS and animal rights groups on my doorstep the next day. Heck... we know it happens, just look at our forum member here that got national attention on a similar circumstance... or a member here who got in trouble with his school for posting pictures of himself shooting guns. So thank you all again for the discussion and supporting the forum going into our 8th year!

See, the real elite people know how to Curve bullets. Alec showed me how he did it once, but he was never able to replicate it.... poser... I think he was just trying to show off. =P

Not sure about military... but NRA, Hunters Ed, USPSA and IDPA all worked. Plenty of folks took NRA classes, but many did not however have shot USPSA or IDPA matches. So they all help.

I don't want a white Ferrari, but I do want a 10mm. Concerned with the frame strength for the CZ clones... then someone pointed out the Sig P220-10.... new?

Now that I think about it... the first time I took my wife to shoot, out of all the guns, she liked my first gen, Springfield XD 45 Gap compact. Go figure. I don't like glocks, I shoot them well, but I still have 2 of them. lol. Guns really are like shoes... you don't pick just on pair. There will be a few that just absolutely do nothing for your.... (Ruger & Taurus Semi Autos for me,), but you will have plenty that you don't really love, but you don't mind having.... (Sigs, Glocks, S&W, Walthers), and a few you just have to have... (HK, CZ, 1911s).

That is the beauty of shooting sports... you can always learn something new from different things, again, depends on your goals. Its like going to the gym... your goal may be to bulk up muscles, but you may learn a thing or two taking a yoga or pilates class.

Here is a video for it.

Ditto. I have used Rainer select barrels in my budget ars and they are quite nice. On my latest AR I went with a White Oak again.

But overall, it is a really solid gun, just a tad light and plasticky for my tastes. My wife actually likes a heavier gun too. The grip angle and grip overall is very nice on here.

Btw, Nick and I talked about this before, if you search for PX4 tags, the back of the gun, looks a lot like the gun from this very popular early 3d shooter.

Great club and plenty of members are here. One way you can check out the club is to go experience it by shooting a match hosted there. USPSA matches are open to the public.

Hehe, will skip those little buggers, thanks.... but would be open to trade for other ammo, or reloading components.... or greenbacks. =P

If anyone desperately needs 22lr ammo, shoot me a PM. I can part with a few..... thousand.

LOL. Thanks? But the more controversial topics are in the 1st amendment section, no visible in search engines or in basic search. =)