Maksim

The first "other firearm" as made by Franklin Armory had straight barrels and how it worked with the current rules. These "other firearms" do so by using a pistol brace AND the vertical grip... so they do contain a regular rifled barrel. 1 in 7 is pretty much the standard twist rate nowadays and should be good for any 55 through 77 grain bullets you throw at it. Will do some 300 yard accuracy testing in the next few weeks, as soon as I get some match grade ammo from friends at Hornady.

PM me... Am going to keep a limit as well, this is not a public range. lol. And we are not getting crazy here.

... And forgot to add, you are going to get a sneak peak into an upcoming model!

So lets do something cool. Like the video, comment, chat and share the video on FB, IG, Twitter or Reddit and 3 people will get either a 10 round or 30 round Troy mag.

Do you have a lower nearby? If not the upper is just a bunch of parts.

If you are going into slide lock you are doing it wrong. This is for USPSA. IDPA I dont know much.

Video premier tonight at 9PM. Join on youtube and chat.

No no. No fun switch. It will have however a muzzle...(Suppressor) just to keep it hearing safe and not piss off too many neighbors. Have to think through if will be for all 1k or half kr what. Send me a pm. Saturday time will be early afternoon.

@TechOpsInternational believes in their product enough to let me and a few friends run 1,000 rounds through the gun this weekend. Wanna help out? Let me know. Private private range in PA this weekend... May live stream this...

Thanks. Hopefully. Have not heard otherwise but will keep on checking. I hope so.

Spoke with a mfr yesterday and this may all be trivial in the near future as ATF is really looking at braces and reclassifying to SBR, as mentioned earlier in the thread. Trying to get confirmation from a major mfr who has much closer ear to the ATF. So if you are on the fence, go buy one, shoot it, enjoy it, then STFU. =P

We are not really arguing over whether the guns are legal but having discussion on home builds. =)

I picked up some CFE223 so will try some loads and chrono them.

Had a great time at the auction, came with a few friends and saw a few forum members. Some really interesting pieces, great deals on reloading supplies. Will have a video about the auction soon. Also got a preview of some of the October items and oh my... AK and M1 Carbine collectors have A LOT to look forward to. A ton of handguns too. Thanks @Alderfer Auction for making it easy to gather footage!

By all means! There more out there, the better!

Um, I am fairly positive right before leaving NJ they had some issues again with missing guns/parts. I think it was discussed here. Or was it they had guns that were not on the books. lol. Will get the full story from someone who really knows tomorrow.

Here is the thing, Our laws are very different than California. In California there are things that are banned... in NJ, everything is banned EXCEPT, ala Mass. etc. There is plenty of illegal stuff already in NJ and we won't go there. These non-nfa guns are merely an out of the blue situation that arose out of the the NJSP saying okay to the Mossberg Shockwave as an "other firearm" which opened the door. There are plenty of guns that fly under the radar but what's different here is the pure amount of in your face FU that these guns are, both an FU to NJ law and the ATF. You live in NJ... you know where NJ and the majority of the population stands on guns... being the nail that sticks out... generally is not the wisest thing. That is why so many gun owners have left NJ in the last decade. These guns are seriously fun, they really are... but unless you are a 20 something year old that does not have dependents and really wants attention, building one is not the wisest idea... but I suspect that most people here and most gun owners are going to buy one anyway instead of building, and the vast majority of the guns that are built will rarely see the range. And yes.. Range 14 does have noisey ROs, besides you are shooting in military grounds, expect your stuff to get inspected. I do not know of anything with "other firearms" and Range 14 and have not shot there in years... When the 15/30 mags were first coming out from Midwest PX, on at least 2 or 3 occasions Range 14 ROs came by to check them out. And when you are shooting at a public indoor range... don't worry, you're on camera.

#1... welcome to NJ . In NJ... GUNS ARE ILLEGAL EXCEPT.... we operate within those exceptions. #2. Not at all. I have shot with many LEO... A LOT of whom are right here on the forum. ... and at public ranges... expect people to be looking at what you are shooting. Go ahead and shoot it at Ft. Dix. =)

HEH? Holy batman... Let's take it one by one. No one here, including myself said that ONLY the two guns on the letter are legal. BUT, they are the two guns that were explicitely reviewed and okayed by NJSP. So I call those two guns the ultimate in the safe category. The clarification letter gives you plenty of intent... i.e. NJSP DOES NOT WANT YOU to build your own... BUT they can't tell you not to build it. And you even have a Lawyer here telling you you should not stir the pot. And of course I feel safer with "other" marked on the receiver... who wouldn't? Do you honestly feel more comfortable going to the range or being pulled over or having your assembled gun put together OR.... a gun that is explicitly marked "Other" and has a letter from the NJSP explicitly saying this gun is okay? Again, in both cases, we agree that an assembled gun is just as legal as a purchased firearm... BUT... that will be proven in court... And... well, I don't want it to go there in the first place. Hence the difference between being right and being effective. Yes... it may be 100% legal to do it... but so is pulling up to a cop and telling them to go screw themselves after they finish their donut... I just don't think it is a smart thing to do for anyone who has a family, assets or simply does not want undue attention. Yes, I feel 100% comfortable explaining how it may be legal... but there is no way in hell do I want that attention. And if I had any of those guns, I would make sure in the case, readily available I would have copies of the letter, a receipt from the dealer, the marketing material and everything else that says "other firearm." Just in case. And that is assuming someone actually wants to hear out your case on the spot instead of "taking you in for having an assault weapon, we'll sort this out later. Of course, if you are in law enforcement, or your family is and you have a badge, a card or connections, OR you are an FFL.... then your risk tolerance is going to be significantly higher and yes... go ahead build your own. Before wife and kids and a mortgage payment, I would be the first to go out and build one... now? No thanks. Not worth the risk when there is a basically risk free alternative for just $200 more (if that) and that comes with a warranty. And with the whole pistol brace thing... speaking with dealers here, there is a good amount of people that are going ahead and doing it right and paying the tax stamp and making them legal SBRs.... the whole pistol brace thing is likely to get shut down soon anyway by your "Gun Friendly, the 2nd Amendment will not be attacked" president.

Huge understatement. lol. Missing guns, parts.

Oh absolutely. That is a given. The neck healed up just fine but the knee still bugs depending on the activity. The higher impact Tae Kwon Do with the way their kicks are hyper extended was just too much pressure on the patella. Boxing I can usually do a few hours and it is fine and I enjoy that quite a bit more... But to answer your question, absolute felt more comfortable and safer being able to know how to defend self in worst case... heck, knowing the easier ways to subdue someone or that it only takes a few lbs of pressure to break some knees... you feel quite a bit better. lol. Comfortable against a gun? No. A Knife... yep. And all of that just builds up and is ingrained in you. The big thing for me was that it taught situational awareness. And no, much like with guns, I never had the urge to just go beat someone down. Did help me twice in a self defense situation. In both cases was over in a few seconds.

As long as you pick it up from a NJ dealer as a complete rifle and the dealer correctly sells it as a "Other Firearm" then there is no problem with the above gun. The difference is, they want you to BUY IT from the dealer as ONE COMPLETE GUN... Rather than having you buy your own lower and then build it into that. Btw, all of the lowers are exactly the same... the main difference is how it is sold and transferred on a 4473.

Here is the $200 tax... I like having THAT "Other Firearm" right there on the receiver and have a copy of the letter in the bag. Try that with an AR LOWEr built gun? Eh... Again, in PA... I would... but honestly I would just build a pistol... or add an AFG... but this is the only one going to our NJ range days with me.

LOL... there are a few of those around too... but open bolts can easily slam home too... then you are really screwed.

LOL. Oh Paul, you know you would not get one. Again, difference in being right or effective. As per ATF... yes can build it. As per NJSP, they do not want you to build it. Why take the risk? Of course it is easy for us to talk... because well you are an FFL in Arizona and I am in PA. If you were a civilian in NJ who can't talk their way out of paper bag... would you recommend someone really to build their own from an existing receiver? AFTER NJSP tells you they don't want you to? SOLGW? I do know that Dark Rain Ordinance is apparently making as well... The larger manufacturers I spoke with have no plans on doing these... both PSA, and other BIG manufacturers. Most everyone on that side puts this being closed within a year. ... and cut this down even further if Trump goes after Pistol Braces.