Maksim

When I first got into shooting in the mid 2000s, I quickly became interested in long range shooting. At that time, the standard recommendation for most shooters was to pick up a Remington 700 Police or a 700 VS and if your budget does not allow that, a Savage model 10FP, both in 308 Winchester. Generally, both of these guns would allow you to shoot around 1 MOA or better with match grade ammunition. In either case however, you were recommended to get into reloading if you wanted to get as consistent results as possible. Once you get above these hunting turned target guns, you were looking at very high end offerings such as the Accuracy International chassis systems or essentially custom guns by well known rifle builders such as GA Precision. Unfortunately, as great as these high end platforms are, they are out of reach for most gun owners. Fast forward a decade and today we find a massive rise in popularity of both long range and extended long range shooting. Most impressive is that you can find plenty of videos of gun owners shooting milk jugs from 1,000 yards to over a mile away with stock guns! So what's changed? I believe there are a number of key drivers which gun owners have to thank for the plethora of options available to them at price points of $2,000 and less. These drivers are both growing demand AND the availability/supply of firearms. From the demand perspective, I think we can thank two drivers for this, YouTube and gun games such as 3 Gun and the practical shooting inspired PRS, which is if you can imagine, an IDPA or USPSA match however you are moving and shooting with a precision rifle, shooting at targets at out at 1,000 yards or more! Fortunately, with all of this demand, manufacturers decided to pour in resources and we now have numerous products at the very competitive price point of $2,000 or less. Best of all, these guns are generally created to be accurate first, rather than being a firearm designed for hunting remarketed as a precision gun. Today, gun owners have such firearms as the Ruger Precision Rifle, the Thompson Center LRR, the Howa Oryx, Mossberg MVP and Savage 110 which use the latest manufacturing processes to produce factory rifles capable of sub MOA shooting (1" at 100 yards, 2" at 200 yards, etc.) The overriding theme here however is that I don't believe this would not have happened if it was not for the "Trump Slump." During the Obama years, manufacturers were able to sell basic $500 AR-15s for $1,000 or more. It was only after President Trump was elected and the fear of imminent gun control no longer drove sales, did manufacturers truly innovate and create such firearms at these very affordable prices. This is of course not just anecdotal evidence but can be seen in the sales data. For anyone who has been reading my "NICS Data" research on Seeking Alpha knows that long gun sales are at decade lows. At the same time, PRS and extended long range shooting is quickly growing. The main benefactor here being "chassis guns." The other major change enabling the success in long range shooting is the mass market appeal of new cartridges such as 6.5 Creedmoor. Why? In the simplest terms, the newer calibers such as 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 PRC, 300 PRC, 6mm Creedmoor, and 224 Valkyrie were designed with different SAAMI specs, predominantly around a bullet with a higher BC (ballistic coefficient) in a larger cartridge with more powder. In short, better bullet, bigger cartridge, more powder giving you faster velocity and a bullet that is far more tolerant of wind. Yes, it is time to settle the debate... 6.5 Creedmoor is an all around better cartridge than 308 Winchester and is quickly becoming the go to norm for gun owners entering this category. After more than 10 years we can start admitting, it is likely not going away, especially as with stock factory ammunition, a shooter can effectively increase their range from around 1,000 yards out to 1,400. Bottom line, are these guns somehow going to put custom rifle builders out of business? No... because there is always that crowd of people who will be looking at a gun that can shoot 1/4 MOA and is willing to pay $4,000 or more on the rifle. If you are happy with .5 to 1 MOA with a gun that you can purchase for around $1,000 and don't need to reload for, then this is certainly an exciting time to be a gun owner. If you have not done so yet, do subscribe and follow my Precision Rifle series on YouTube where we take a look at the latest and most popular precision guns at $2,000 or less!

Is it all steel out there or can you set up paper or reactive targets and go down-range during a seize fire?

It's a Glock. It runs. Glocks generally start falling apart when you start messing with them and start changing out crap that alters the balance.

Cheap but good! The howa 1500 is a fantastic barreled action. Not a fan of the flimsy safety but it sure shoots. And they guarantee sub moa with match ammo.

You can always just book a class or a trip out there. whats unique is that the place has more and more new ranges on it, right now the longest I believe is close to 6,000 yards. Yep, let that sink in... The ranges are named after the first special forces unit who trains there.

Awesome, how far did you push it and what were you shooting?

Hornady makes good stuff... Save some money... don't need that much for a single stage? Although Hornady makes good stuff. I have the progressive. Generally with progressive presses things will break... with single stage, not so much.

Those mags are not out yet and likely won't? Apparently Sig is going after that company for taking cues out of the design used for the 365 mags.

That's because they are desperately auditioning for the CZ Cult. Every CZ is Godly, Every Glock needs $1,000 in modifications, and then another $500 in modifications to make that Gucci Glock as reliable as a stock Glock.

I recently separated all of my 308 brass by headstamp and sorted by weight. Illness.

This is what 6.5 CM was meant for, to be coming out of a box fed mag. It is definitely not boutique anymore but that would be because of its adoption in bolt guns... NOT semi autos. =P It's simply better ballistics with a good amount of people behind it. Should certainly be safe for the next decade or so.

Oh duh, totally forgot. If you want a good solid single stage press with a fairly nice priming system already on it, I have been testing the Lyman Brass Smith Victory press. Has been reliable and works well with all calibers I have tried so far up to 308. On Amazon for $155.99 or as a kit complete with scale, powder measure and all the little crap you need for $283. The other press I am testing is the new Franklin Armory coax, and there are a lot of nice features there... but a stuck case did some damage.... This Lyman has been great with no issues. Solid O frame that will easily handle large magnums. Resized some 6.5 PRC and 300 PRC with no issues.

If you want to learn, as @carl_g suggested, start with pistol... you are likely going to get into less trouble and generally far more straight forward. You are generally not trimming brass, cleaning primer pockets and very seldom if ever dealing with stuck cases in dies. At the same time, you are also not forced to lube every one of them. The problem is, reloading common ammo like 9mm today, really is not going to save you much when you factor in time, unless it is for oddball calibers that you are going to have issues finding in store, say 9mm Makarov, 38 Super Comp, 8mm Nambu, 45 GAP. With Rifle you will absolutely save for match grade ammo. For instance, two calibers I am working with now, 6.5 PRC and 300 PRC... Factory Ammo - $40 per box (IF you can find in stock). Brass - From previously fired ammo. Bullets - 147 Grain Hornady ELD - $.30 Powder - 60 grains of powder, H1000 $.23 Primers $30/1,000, so $.03 All in materials you are $.56 vs $2 per round. You do have to factor in your time, hazmat fees if getting stuff delivered, etc. You also have to factor in whether you are going to be shooting more or the same. For instance, went out to the range to merely do some load development for the guns, 308... that was 100 rounds, 5 boxes of ammo... versus would ordinarily shoot half of that? Hopefully that answers the why it's cheaper per round but more expensive in general. Then you have the issue of chasing performance. When you start going into the brand new brass, $1 per piece, solid copper bullets with a high bc $1 per round, then powder and primers... you are paying more than regular match grade ammo. This does not include more expensive goodies such as electronic powder dispenser $300, case prep stations, match grade dies, precision scales, etc.... and oh yes, lots and lots of lube... (For the brass, not the other place). So when you get to shooting and you feel like your ammo is holding you back, then reload. It is well worth it and educational and will make you a much more knowledgeable gun owner... BUT don't kid yourself, you will be spending more money net net as you will be shooting more and most stuff just won't be good enough for you anymore. Cause after the precision ammo, you will want precision guns, $3,000 optics, $300 bipods, etc. And oh yeah, you need a chrono... for real. I use the Competition Electronics Pro Chrono Pal, just dropped to $86 on Amazon and well worth it. https://amzn.to/2JTkd9p

Welcome. This honestly does not matter as I far as I aware of have seen, unless you have some issues. In reality, the two references are there just to make sure you are not a dipshit, i.e. drug problems, mental problems, cannot be otherwise trusted with a gun. Just wondering why your friend did not want to be your referral?

Reliability should not be an issue. P10C will be cheaper. Keep in mind, there will generally be less after market support for the CZ. Magazines will generally be more expensive too. 45 uses 17/19 mags. CZ will have better trigger out of the box. In generally it really boils down to do you want to be on Team Glock or Team CZ. I will say, the punch on Team CZ is quite strong BUT... even if you buy a P10C, you are not a "true" member of the club until you get a CZ75 variant... those are the only "true" CZs. =P Also, if you plan on reselling the gun in the future, you are going to get quite a bit more money for the Glock than the CZ, particular this plastic fantastic CZ.

Yep. You do have experts on both sides who say yes it makes a difference and no it does not. Here are two videos, one with John Krieger, aka Krieger barrels.. and another barrel/gunsmith.

Life saving equipment at 200 yards? I understand if we are talking about being in a warzone BUT if we are talking about defensive use of a rifle for most people, 3 inch difference in POI is not going to make a difference if you are aiming center mass at 10 yards. Or am I missing something?

As others have mentioned, depends on goals. Based on my ballistics calc, if you had a zero at 25 yards that was accurate, a 55 grain 2600 fps velocity bullet is going to be .74 mils high at 100 and .12 mils high at 200. So that is 2.664" at 100 and .432" at 200. a 25/200 Zero is going to be good enough as a "point blank zero" for anywhere between 0 and 200 yards or so. With that zero, you are .73 mils or about 7.5" low at 300 so in a hunting situation (under that distance) or gun games where you are shooting IPSC sized targets or larger steel targets, just hold center and shoot, as long as your gun can hold 1 moa should be no need to dope the scope. Or realistically just hold over the reticle versus clicking. This is also why the "wundercalibers" like 6.5 CM and others are popular... they are flatter so your effective hold zero distance can be expanded. Have to get my range cards out but this is why shooting the 6.5 PRC, Was not even doping the scope out to 350 or 400 yards. Flat and fast with high BC bullets. Best recommendation for any gun owner getting into gun games or reloading is get a chrono, a decent one is $100, and get any of the free ballistics apps like those by Hornady, Lapua and others. I LOVE the Hornady app, it is free and lets you save guns, loads, etc. And as @High Exposure mentioned, there are lots of other variables such as elevation, humidity, temperature and of course the types of ammo/powders. Many of the powders are temperature sensitive and that will affect velocity which will impact point of impact and your dope. Realistically, you REALLY need a chrono because everything else is theoretical. The velocities written on the box are NOT for your gun but are generally for 24" barrels. Best example of this was shooting same loads out of 1 26" 308 barrel and another gun with a 20" barrel with a brake. Difference in velocity was almost 100 fps from the same load. (42 grains of 8208 XBR, 168 Hornady BTHP). Once you have your gun's velocity for that ammo, you can use the free ballistics apps and get the guns dopes... then you go and true that. (but by all means I am not an expert at this... coming from reloading for many years for pistol loads and then a 4 day intensive long range shooting class in Texas shooting out to 2500 yards. Part of what we were doing there is truing the guns and seeing how accurate the ballistics apps and cards were for the gun). And quite frankly for most shooters at 300 yards or less it won't make a difference anyway.