Maksim

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. That is the LOL of the year so far I think. It is not forum members, it is rather people who hear from others who do not believe things on the internet and start calling in and ask. The sheer volume of calls captured attention and M1 Carbines were overturned.... er the letters that said M1 Carbine was kosher... no longer were. In case of M1, some dealers called to take them back, quite a few of the guns are still out there in the hiding. In short, for those whom may not know.... M1 Carbines are illegal as per the NJ AWB. They are on the list. There was a model that came out that that was effectively an M1 but was not labeled as M1. Rifle was submitted to NJSP, they said it was okay. Word got out and people started buying. Many people did not believe it and started calling NJSP. AG got word and then nixed it. (fairly positive was AG).

I am not familiar with CA laws... how and when was this?

Interesting question. Because it is very strict in terms of this works within the law... I think NJ AG will need to push some new laws to be passed to redefine what "pistols" are. Keep in mind they already have a number of bills in committees so it would be easy for them to sneak it in there. So... Longer than the M1 Carbine was "legal" as per NJSP about 8 years ago... but less than 1 year? Maybe even 6 months if these things start taking off and are the top topic on NJGF, Reddit Guns, FB and other sites... and the largest dealers start pushing these.

And just an FYI and a reminder from the M1 Carbine fiasco... If you want this to be okay... DO NOT contact the NJSP with questions... "Is this NFA/Pistol Brace thing legal?" That is exactly how the M1 Carbine got canned about 8 years ago.

HAHAHA. I was just thinking that. @Modern Materiel I hope you sell a crap ton of these and get them into people's hands. Also amazed at the blue eye being given to NJ. I agree with @PK90, I wonder how long until this gets brought up the food chain and nixed. A weapon designed to be fired with two hands... comes with a "pistol" brace... but cannot be used as a "pistol" I think effectively this means manufacturers can start sticking a VFG on any "pistol" over the weight limit. This definitely is a bad black eye for NJ... but I think they will be fixing this in upcoming legislation and fix the definition of pistol.

They type in the DL number. =P And yes, PA systems at Weiss do read and verify NJ DL. =P

Welcome to the community. So the muzzle flash and noise is not going to depend as much on the gun as on the ammo. The original capacity should be a non issue. BUT because you mentioned 10 rounds as designed... a 1911 in 9mm, something like a Smith and Wesson or a Ruger. Keep in mind, they are metal, so while recoil will be less vs polymer grip/frame guns, they also weight more.... and of course generally more expensive. So I would say as we do for others... figure out what is really the most important to you.... price, shootability, etc... then work from there. You can also go to a gun store, try a bunch of guns and see what fits you best. Keep in mind, just because a gun fits your hand comfortably, does not mean you will shoot it well or won't be "blah" to shoot. If you are focusing on low recoil... other guns I would suggest would be Sig P226, CZ 75, Beretta 92FS... Humn, actually, a Beretta 92FS or an M9 may just be the ticket for you.... fairly low recoil, plenty of 10 round mags, dirt cheap accessories. If you want "cool", beretta M9A3. And when you move to America or visit friends there, you can put on a suppressor...

Thanks all. Got to say, it is "Harbor Freight"... dirt cheap for good enough for most people.... BUT it is made in China, does not have the automatic pressure valve. I suppose for the small cases, $14 vs $35 may not be a huge deal for a case that will last a long time (Pelican, SKB, Nanuk).... BUT tougher decision for the larger sized cases where the price difference is more.

Just found this video... I suppose as long as I don't plan on driving over the case with a 3/4 ton I should be fine. I just don't like that grid pattern on the apache cases.

Nothing crazy. Was resizing and thought I had the case lubed enough. Got stuck in the die... Tried to pull it out and the first thing to give way was the metal plate cover holding the universal shell holder. The problem there is it is held in by 5 fairly short/small bolts. They gave way and the piece of metal bent. Will post pictures/videos later. Waiting for replacement parts from Frankford Arsenal. Of course, this would be completely avoidable if I did not try to force it out that way or lubed the case more.

Thanks... any opinions on how sturdy it is? And are they returnable/replaceable at Harbor Freight like the tool warranty? Foam would not be an issue as I would not be using it....

Most of them are going to do the job. I am currently playing with a Lyman Victory press if you want to come check it out. I like the fact that it has on press priming. I also have for testing the Frankford Arsenal M-Press and I LOVE a lot of the features on it, but it does not have a primer seating system which is a tad of a downside. I am also not too sure on the universal shellholder system yet. YES, there are tons of benefits as in you don't need to spend hundreds to get them for multiple calibers, BUT... it is the first thing to give way when you have a stuck case... don't ask how I know. Currently waiting for a replacement.

Anyone try them or have any experience? https://www.harborfreight.com/1800-weatherproof-protective-case-9-316-in-64550.html?_br_psugg_q=apache+1800 A little ugly but way cheaper....

How was it? Who showed up? Guys missed the rain that went through?

Hehe... oh believe me, you are preaching to the choir. I do agree. Just wanted to make a hi-point joke. Generally out to most distances the gun will be more accurate than the shooter and in many cases it is the garbage ammo that will account for most of the shift. As long as they are $300+ firearms, generally accuracy will not be an issue and I agree 100%... it should not be a driving factor for most people.

If they are suing... why wouldn't their name be known? Unfortunately, this is the state of affairs with many gun clubs, especially in liberal states, and ESPECIALLY for newer clubs. It's one thing to say... "Hey, the gun club has been here for 100 years, go pound sand." Vs... a recently established gun club. Will try to schedule a day to go shoot there... was hoping for a good place without going to shooter's gauntlet.

Interesting... most likely, they are just using the same system as the Weiss here in PA. In Pa, for their licenses, there IS a limit as to how much they can sell you and they have to log it. Giving and scanning a drivers license for booze anywhere here, is standard protocol... (as far as I have seen over the past year.)

Ok... so just looked it up... That classifier... CM 06-03... Hit Factor of 15 gets you... Production - 100% Limited = No Optic - 90.1501% Open - 90.1501% Single Stack = 100% So essentially, an optic race gun would get the same result as a limited gun with no optic. Production and Single stack, i.e. no race holsters, less gun mods... would be top results. I am sure if we look up classifiers where targets are much further away, there would be a difference.

Here is a "practical" one... and have not pulled scores for it yet.. but a classifier... Targets at 10 to 14 feet. https://uspsa.org/viewer//06-03.pdf Tell me how much more effective an RDS is going to be somewhere here? And YES.... I agree... when people miss, it is generally due to rushing, poor trigger control, etc. An RDS is not going to solve any of them. You can still make those mistakes. So... Are most gun owners going to need to shoot a 2" circle at 3 yards? Or are they more likely going to need an IPSC sized target at 10 to 14 feet?

I think you are taking my point out of context. In a home defense situation when you are shooting an IPSC sized target at distances at 5 yards or so, are you really using your sights? Do you think any competitive shooter say B level or higher is taking the same sight picture at a target at 5 yards as they do shooting a target at 25 yards or 50? Of course they are not! That's the point that I am trying to make... in MOST situation, under 10 yards, hunting for the dot takes far longer than just having a modest sight picture... If you are shooting for say the "A Zone" on an IPSC target. Of course if you are aiming and need to hit a 2" circle.... no crap you got to aim... BUT... when would someone need to do that in gun games OR home defense situations? Also, It is completely ridiculous to compare an OPEN gun versus a gun used by most people... a stock Glock with a milled optic. Open guns, the optics are generally mounted to the frame, the guns are running really effective comps and the dots they are using... are not your tiny window RMRs.... they are much bigger optic windows. That dot effectively stays there. There is FAR less hunting for it. I would venture to say, if I look at some classifier top scores for both Open and production or limited... where targets are at 7 yards or so... the scores are going to be virtually identical. and as I said MULTIPLE TIMES... 1. slide mounted optics are helpful when your vision is deteriorating... 2. You are shooting longer distances..... so no crap... in most major matches where the average target is 15 yards plus and a good amount of targets are 25 yards plus.... or say Florida Open where targets are 35 yards+.... OF COURSE I want a dot. Most gun owners ARE NOT shooting longer distances... For rifles... of course a scope or a dot is going to be more helpful.... we are talking about a completely different firearm that at no point can be made to be felt as an extension of your body. My daughter's bday party starting but will pull the classifiers later today.

Let's not get carried away there. =) There were also some M&P's that could not shoot minute of barn at 25 yards. =)

I do wonder if any studies were done on the fact that using a dot sight on a pistol, requires A LOT more training to shoot as effectively as iron sights... My issue with firearms mounted optics is that they are like a crutch that holds you back, in most cases... Just like lasers, you are wasting more time actively searching for the dot rather than just relying on training and point shooting at anything under 10 yards or so. Of course, the one big caveat is guys who have vision issues... here I have ZERO issues with slide mounted optics and encourage it. For everyone else, its a crutch that slows you down until you start shooting pistols beyond 40 yards or so and especially if you shitty stock sights with 3 dots, etc rather than a clean thin front blade that you can see, preferably a fiber optic, and clear rear sights. There is a reason why very few competitive shooters who change their sights, change it to 3 dot or similar. Of couse, I am not an optometrist so take it for what it is. Best training tool I found for me is the SIRT pistols by NLT/Mike Hughes. It replicates a glock down to the weight and loaded mag. Shoots red laser to show you take up and green laser for trigger break. I dry fire it daily even sitting at the desk. What I found, and I would not if I did not have it... I can point shoot accurately, without actively aiming or aligning the sights, at things as small as 4 inches at distances out to 20 yards. (I go around the house "shooting" things.) The one peace of kit I have zero issues with is a good light. I suppose an extreme version of this would be like people who "aim" their gun at IDPA/USPSA targets that are at distances of 3 yards or so instead of just extending out the gun and putting the required rounds on paper. Yes yes, gun game, but when you have mere seconds in a self defense situation, there is no sense getting a 50 yard sight picture for a target 5 feet away. Sorry to get preachy guys and gals.

Correct but as we know, those ATF letters don't really mean squat anymore considering how many times did ATF flip flop on braces? How many times did ATF flip flop on bump stocks? And of course... there is Trump who is not really pro-gun and will at any time say.... "No, I am not a fan of (insert popular gun theme)." The thing is... just like the bump stocks, the pistol braces and these "non-nfa" type guns are flaunting it in the face of ATF. The more manufacturers and the industry flaunt it as an "FU" and a way of getting around existing laws... which look, we are all adults here, it is, the more likely this will get flaunted. And of course manufacturers and dealers who are about the here and now will publicly push them... For manufacturers it is the same parts just in a different configuration so they are not losing anything and can make it a different gun. Just like Slidefire and others... it was about making as much as possible before the eventual slapdown. This is very much different than when 10 years ago or so now, a few dealers were pushing the M1 Carbine clone. In any case, I am wondering why even as a Non-NFA... it is only good for CT and NJ... and not CA, NY, and other states.... how are their laws worded? Quite frankly, these guns are cool... BUT I don't see too many people having the balls to go out and publicly shooting these as civillians with lots of stuff to lose. Of course, if you are LEO or an FFL with a pink card your limits for questionable are going to be much higher. With a pretty easily identifyable flash suppressor, pistol brace and SBR configuration, this gun is too much "Look at me, Arrest me Red" sports car. I think I would rather take a risk with standard capacity pistol mags instead. lol.

You mean the .356 TSW is not going to make a comeback? 38 Super? 41 AE? 50 Bae?