Maksim

ok, back to the point.

Key issues... money and zoning. Depending on how your area is, and if your town will let you do it. Money... a good indoor range now, will cost you a good 1.5 mil. Will let others chime in. Figure in a startup cost of 1.5 mil, salaries for employees, liability insurance. then work backwards. btw, this does not include the property. So add in property, if you are building, or leasing.

they wouldnt impersonate anyone you know. But if you think anything on facebook is private, sadly mistaken. When you sign up for a facebook profile, you click the checkbox acknowledging that anything you post becomes property of facebook. When I did hiring for Ameriprise and UBS, at the office level, we would routinely check facebook, myspace, and do an overall google to see what kind of "winnner" we had on hand. You would be surprised what stupid shit people do and post in public. Btw, remember the nutjob from arf.com that posted pics of him with high cap mags, pointing a gun at his friends face, pictures of him stabbing him.... yeah, the "winner" that was arrested for selling full auto converted ar15's to an undercover fbi agent. I am sure they got plenty of ammo, pun intended, on facebook. maybe we will have less spam on facebook. =P

cheyenne does have alot of firearms... last time I was there, all the counters were packed... and their guns are all on pegs, so they can fit like 20 across.

FID for handgun ammo, drivers for rifle to verify age. Most stores have just adopted policy that you need FID for any ammo. Alot simpler. Same for powder i believe... or on one of the components.

I disagree. The difference is that you could actually put the combined square footage of half the gun stores in NJ into Rays rear gun room, and if you considered the entire store, probably all the gun stores in NJ. Rays had 5 or 6 rows of double sided cases, 20' long, in the middle of the room. They had a 3-tier handgun display case that went around the entire room, probably 75' or more total length. Then all the long guns behind. Rays also had enormously high prices most of the time, but they had a selection that few guns stores in all of the US have... Oh I agree. i remember that case quite well.

Barack Obama meets with the Queen of England . He asks her, "Your Majesty, how do you run such an efficient government? Are there any tips you can give to me?" "Well," says the Queen, "the most important thing is to surround yourself with intelligent people." Obama frowns "But how do I know the people around me are really intelligent?" The Queen takes a sip of tea. "Oh, that's easy. You just ask them to answer an intelligent riddle." The Queen pushes a button on her intercom. "Please send former Prime Minister Tony Blair in here, would you?" Tony Blair walks into the room. "Yes, my Queen?" The Queen smiles. "Answer me this, please, Tony. Your mother and father have a child. It is not your brother and it is not your sister. Who is it?" Without pausing for a moment, Tony Blair answers, "That would be me." "Yes! Very good," says the Queen. Obama goes back home to ask Joe Biden, his vice president, the same question. "Joe. Answer this for me. Your mother and your father have a child. It's not your brother and it's not your sister. Who is it?" "I'm not sure," says Biden.. "Let me get back to you on that one." He goes to his advisors and asks every one, but none can give him an answer. Finally, he ends up in the men's room and recognizes Colin Powell's shoes in the next stall.. Biden asks Powell, "Colin! Can you answer this for me? Your mother and father have a child and it's not your brother or your sister. Who is it?" Colin Powell yells back, "That's easy. It's me!" Biden smiles, and says, "Thanks!" Then, he goes back to speak with Obama. "Say, I did some research and I have the answer to that riddle. It's Colin Powell." Obama gets up, stomps over to Biden, and angrily yells into his face, "No, you idiot! It's Tony Blair!"

And that's exactly what I did. Awful service at Bullet Hole made sure I will never purchase there again. And I am doing something about it - I'm telling as many people I can not to go there. The only way to get people like that to change their tune is hit them where it hurts - the wallet. You know, if you simply brought it up to their attention, you would of probably get an apology and would of make a bigger deference. by you running and ranting and having a pitty party with others, doesnt change one damn thing. I am just wondering, did you ever write, call or speak with the owners of the bullet hole? Not trying to call you out on it, but to me, it makes sense if you want something changed, you should bring it up. But you dont have to answer the last question... anyway, case closed, welcome to the forum.

there it is.... only took 5 pages. =P

No one said you have to put up with being treated like garbage.... in fact, if you got treated like garbage, do something about it. help others out. I would never defend a shot that treats people like crap. Just wanted to bring your attention that not every shop is like that, and not everyone has the same bad experiences as you had.

go visit any nj gun shop, they will have them on display. also, look in the picture thread in the rifle section, plenty of awesome looking ar's there. main key is... has to be a fixed stock, and no muzzle flash hiders.

now that I think about it.... everyone needs to visit Effingers. The shark tank is fuggin awesome!

Absolutely. Even for a brick and mortar... the prices are nuts. surprisingly though.... ammo is fairly well priced. Bricks of 22 for $20 to $22 bucks. for good federal.

You are comparing apples and oranges. the times were different. any shop 3 years ago would be able to have that many firearms. most stores now, sell them within the month. I am assuming you are a new shooter? http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&m ... 968b8509d2 Melg, a member here has put this map together. It has the ranges etc. Be a part of the community, get together with folks for the group shoots, you will shoot all the firearms you want, and know what you want to buy. Only for a few months after getting FID I would go browse stores.... whats the point. lol. You have a great source for firearms here. The closest to rays, btw... is Effingers.

mine was You would be highly mistaken. I dont care if someone is vendor or not, if you have a bad experience with someone, bring it up in a constructive matter. If you had a bad experience with any shop, and if they are on the forum, send me a message, and most of the stuff can be taken care of. to date... I have not had 1. And like I said earlier, we do not delete topics because they talk negatively about a vendor. We delete posts for language, and psyco talk... surprisingly, today has been a busy day. lol. sonman, everyone has the right to their opinion, and I personally dont care what anyone does in the privacy of their own home, however, the OP stated numerous times there are no other shops in his area, or ranges, and how any other range in NJ for what he is looking for is expensive. I personally find that to be a bullshit excuse, and just point out the obvious. And for someone who thinks the only shops in the area are Rays and the Bullethole, are missing the big picture and obviously are not that in touch. Just being captain obvious. Anyone can go shop anywhere, however giving people the impression that there are no competitive shops in NJ is just ludacrious. Btw, anyone that complains about the high price of Cherry Ridge, or Central Jersey.... has anyone even shot at those places? They are top notch facilities, and worth the money, even if they are 5x as expensive. My butt was unemployed, however I would still pay for a membership. As far as places like the bullet hole, brick armory, shore shot.... yes, they are typically more expensive. hell, any brick and mortar gun shop is going to be more expensive than an at home ffl, esp if this is the first time you are visiting them. they have to pay the lights, and salaries. And none of those people have to serve anyone. not everyone is a good fit. If you like cheap guns, and only want to shop on price, because the dealer deserves less profit than what you are paying to nics..... then go shop online. Their feelings are not going to be hurt. What I am sure you will learn with time, especially with firearms, after you patronize those local shops, and become a name, and not just a face.... and if you actually bother to talk to them besides gun specs, and become an advocate, you will get better deals than any other places. In the begining, I paid the same prices anyone else would at a brick and mortar. I paid the daily walk on fees, the rentals, the ammo costs. And then I realized getting a membership, and paying $150 is perhaps the best thing I could of done. I spent about $250 on walk ons, before realizing a membership would be cheaper. I spent thousands before realizing reloading will save me per round. And then... a magical thing happened, you get to know the owners, you get to know them as a person and a friend... and at that point... imagine how nice it is when you walk in, and the staff welcomes you by name. You are no longer some kid that came to shoot a glock. 95% of the people on here, myself included, are typically cheap bastards and shop price. the vast majority though, especially if they are not dedicated shooters, couldnt give a rat's ass if an AK is $500 or $1500. they just want to go, rent a gun, get a class, and pop off some rounds. At that point, you make the decision if it is worth it to you or not. Like the suggested logo is.... You buy, you learn, then you find NJGF. =P

mine was I can guarantee, the only reason we delete posts is the language. If you cant say it politely, dont say it. I get a log of all deleted posts, and so far... outside of the marketplace, we have deleted 8 posts in the last year. If you think anyone here is mod crazy, sadly mistaken. If we do have to moderate a topic, we send a polite note.

I have been getting stuff from cabelas with no issues... never once had to fax anything in.

now time for the gatorade diet. Now did you knock out any teeth? I am glad you are ok. Got really worried, lol. stayed up till 5am

Yes they do. They support the forum, and in turn they get some advertising and a presence on the forum. Marketing 101. However any vendor is invited to the board. Same as individuals. Some folks value the resource that is put together here, and the insane amount of time it takes to keep a forum running, and in turn donate and support to the forum, hence hence the orange tags... Others on the other hand, just come on, register, start abusing the resources and people's good will... though we really don't have many, if any at all of the later. Unlike playing Internet pirate on a national forum, most people on here know each other, know the vendors, and we all know we own guns. =) Hence why there is a certain civility around here. I will gladly stand up for any vendor on the forum or any member on here when it comes to a joker who is in it for himself first, fuck everyone else mentality. Believe me, if a vendor acts out, people DO KNOW about it, and the people who do care about the shooting sports in NJ, will make a note to bring it up, because we all realize that there are bad fries in the box, the happy meal is better when we stick together. If all of the 307 FFL's in NJ are terrible, and all the ranges are too expensive, wtf does it say about you as a person? If all the things are soo terrible, just move. You are obviously proven wrong on CR, and I do not believe Old Bridge is $600, may be close... but lets take a club like Central Jersey. $400 up front, plus $200 a year. They let you break up the $200 into installments. Now, I am assuming you were born in 86, from your username,... so you are 24. I can damn near guarantee you, if you drink or smoke, you blow more money at a bar in New Brunswick.... a shitty bar in NB, not even going to say $12 a drink in Hoboken bar. And if you smoke.... I am sure you know the price for a pack of cigs. Heck, when I was 24 I blew $1000 + in Atlantic city on some nights. It was stupid... and voila... could of pay for Central Jersey memberships for myself and a guest every time I would go. And what made me really angry with myself, I went and pissed the money away, granted it was discretionary income at that point, however it could of been better used for more guns, and to support the shooting community. Obviously this is only my opinion, and I don't know everything, and I can easily count on the guys here to quickly put me in check when I mess up. This forum, now 1 year old. wooohooo, has quickly turned into a band of friends. We are very open to, and want to introduce new people to the community and the sport, and while your post does have a bit of truth and validity to it, your holier than god attitude should be checked at the door. Respect & Trust are things that are earned, they are not to be expected day one. btw, I do pay for 2 memberships, both at an indoor range, and at Ft. Dix. and quite honestly.... paying those "high" memberships costs... absolutely, positively, without a doubt, fucking priceless. Ask any one with a membership.

I am not a member but had visited there. I am sure the members will agree. If you shoot a few times a month, it is worth it. the outdoor ranges already have the holders in the ground, you just need the target. indoor range is 24 hours, however no rifles in there, even if it is a pistol caliber. the indoor range is 50 ft though, not a standard 25 yards.

plus one on the p22/g22 they are not bad firearms either, and fairly cheap. Get the g22, and you get 2 mags. =P

welcome to the forum. It really is a question to run by the attorney, however I would not think it is a big deal. Reason why.... over the past few years, anti depressants have been readily avail, and get easily prescribed. At the current moment, up to 25% of the population is on some sort of anti depressant. Even for an insurance point of view... being treated for depression is not a big deal anymore... however you will have to get documentation.

correct.

btw... take a look at this map. http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&m ... 968b8509d2