GRIZ

@Ray Ray deer are still hunted in many places with buckshot. Deer hunting is where it got its name "buck" shot.

Recoil is basically a function of the total ejected mass (projectile and powder) with a factor for velocity vs the weight of the gun. An ounce of #4 buck at 1100 fps will give you the same recoil as an ounce of OO at 1100 fps. The #4 will give you significantly less penetration. As I related earlier, in the 70s and early 80s LE was all over full power #4 buck as the answer. They found it lacked enough penetration compared to std OO buck. A low recoil #4 buck would give even less penetration. I think Federal made low recoil #4 buck but don't know if they still do.

I've fired a lot of different rounds through 14" PGO and birds head grip shotguns over the past 30 years. I agree they all are controllable for many but brutal to some. Peneration in ballistics gel is about as follows from a quick search: #2 birdshot.......10" #4 buck........14" #1 buck.......17" OO buck......21" All make a rat hole entry but you need #4 buck or better to get significant penetration. A "light" 2 3/4" OO load could give you this without going to mini shells or need of an adapter. Ammo like this in a Shockwave or similar gun would make recoil go from "controllable" to "not that bad".

I wonder if any ammo manufacturers have thought of making light #1 or OO loads. A light OO load (with 6-8 pellets) at 900 fps would still give decent penetration. Low recoil 00 buck penetrates about 21" in ballistic get. I would think a light load would get to 16" or so. Just a thought. Would make a Shockwave or TAC 14 much more controllable with decent penetration.

If you're creative and take the time you can correlate just about anything to anything.

Seems to me it's about the size of a Walther PP. I don't have any need for it (doesn't mean I wouldn't buy one). The larger grip would mitigate recoil for some. The grip safety might be to get it on "the list" for states that have such things.

I don't know. Using the answers given what can anyone be charged with? Conspiring to obey the law?

Hey there's no gun laws!!! Even so a 4" 357 is not too big to conceal.

I'm referring to off the shelf ammo there. I've been reloading for about 45 years. Try reloading a 125 gr 9mm bullet down to 600 fps that will reliably work the action. I can load a 125 gr 357 from 600 to 1500 fps in the 357. I've never been a fan of "screaming hot" loads. I've seen too many guns come apart in such quests. No desire to turn a 5.56 into a 22-250 or a 9mm into a 357 magnum. I've always felt if you need more power just get more gun.

If you're limited to two guns and there are no gun laws I'd still pick a M4A1 and a 4" 357 (686 or GP100). The M4A1 takes care of a lot of needs. Easily engages SD targets out to 200 meters. If they are at 200 meters I stand a good chance of just getting away rather than engaging them. The 5.56 will easily take game up to deer size. Eskimos, Native Aklaskans, or whatever they want to be called use 5.56 for polar bear and walrus so it'll work for that. 357? Low capacity yes! But that is a backup to the M4 with 30 or 40 Rd capacity. Remember the criteria "no gun laws". I'll just open carry my M4. Inconvenient? I don't think so I did it with a M16 almost every day for a year. African carry is very quick with a long gun. I was doing it 50 years ago but didn't know there was a name for it. If I'm going into a fight I want a long gun. I agree with @High Exposure uses for full auto are very limited. I have the option if I need it though. The 357. Really a backup to the M4. I can shoot small game with 38 wad cutters without blowing them to pieces. I can use 357s with no issue for SD. I can use std 38s, +p, +p+, as intermediate power levels. You don't have that option with semiautos. Although there are no gun laws, the 4" 357 is not too big to conceal but big enough to hit well. 9s, 40s, 45s, don't have the flexibility of the 357. Peter Capstick Hathaway (I'm showing my age!) used a 357 to kill a cape buffalo. Reloads with a 357? Using speed loaders they're very quick. Most would be surprised at what a skilled revolver shooter will do from loops or a 2x2 pouch.

Yes you do! Any honorably discharged vet!

An inch a yard is about what full power 9 pellet OO does with an open choke. Full power also tends to donut as range increases. You can consider yourself lucky if you hit a full size silhouette target at 25 yds with 1 or 2 pellets with that combination. Shooting Remington Reduced Recoil 8 pellet in a Shockwave I pretty much got the same results as you relate. Maybe a little bigger pattern at 25, like 10-12".

Yes Ray but of the 3 options (slug, 00, and #4) why not just load OO and then you're good from close to intermediate range. Slugs have range but penetrate too much. #4 makes a lot more holes but doesn't penetrate well.

If you're talking about a soft target at close range it probably doesn't make a difference. I prefer OO. Ray, last I heard all the Federal agencies usually use OO. Some additionally have #4 buck as authorized ammo.

Back in the 70s LE thought #4 buck was the ultimate. They found out it wasn't and penetration was not very good. Most went back to OO.

M4A1, flat top, BUIS, red dot w/magnifier in 5.56 would meet all needs. Been using the AR platform for just short of 50 years. Always worked for me.

Also eating, picking up people, etc etc 8 or 9 pellet? A bit less recoil. I use Remington 8 and 9 pellet reduced recoil. Same velocity. Really can't tell the difference.

Having hollow points outside the limitations is by itself a crime. Please enlighten us to all the arrests made for possession of hollow points alone without some other crime being involved.

Magnum was one of the best series ever. I've watched it over and over. It would be impossible to get a crew together like Magnum, Higgins, Rick, TC, Agatha, Icepick and the other regulars. After seeing the original characters for 8 years you kind of get the people playing them locked in. There's one thing Magnum did which no one else did before on TV or in the movies. It made the Vietnam Vets the heroes. Prior to Magnum, Vietnam Vets were usually depicted as crazy, alcoholics, drug addicts, or mass killers. Most remakes stink IMO. There have been a few good ones.

You just need to have magazines around. I never found that an issue. You can shoot the bird, perp, and deer with the 357 or M4.

@Ray Ray, @High Exposure is correct. 686 or GP100 4" and M4A1, only need 5.56, full auto for the Mongol hordes. The ones I've had in the past I had to give back. Ray, no shotgun for me if there's only 2. Shotgun has limited range and ammo is too bulky.

Precisely why we really can't make conclusions from the information available.

If he was manufacturing ammo with a penetrator it appears he would be in violation. If he was selling ammo with a penetrator manufactured by a licensed firm he would not be in violation. We're still unsure what type of AP ammo he was making.

We really don't know what AP ammo he majufactured. If he was producing a SS109 equivalent it would require him to have a license. If he was selling factory new SS109 he wouldn't require a license.

Many other sources reporting this including ABC and Fox. 27 CFR 478.37 prohibits the manufacture, sale, or import of armor piercing ammo without a license to do so. There are certain exceptions.