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I would recommend a type of martial arts myself. Being able to pull a trigger is great and all, but it doesn't seem to prioritize the mindset of having to defend one's life and/or others by tapping into a potential that we're all capable. Because as I've said repeatedly, but had no response, the core difference between competitive shooting and defending one's life HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MECHANICAL SKILL (though it is important, no doubt). If someone is threatening me, I hope I have a firearm (esp if they have one). But I'll take a knife, a 2x4, a pipe, a pair of scissors, my belt, or the pen I always keep in my pocket. And I know how I would react because I've made peace with that, and have trained for that, and know how it actually feels. To me, a martial art, and really more so the program/instructor that is teaching it, will focus more on the mindset then the technique. Even basic training follows the same concept. Sure, they teach us all the stuff of how to destroy a threat using a wide array of tools, but they slam it into our souls/heads (sometimes literally) the mental repercussions of why we must succeed (and what can result of our failure). What are corrective actions for? To make us physically stronger (through pushups, cherry pickers, low-crawling through a sand/mud pit for a few hours, etc), but more so to make sure we mentally know why something is important as opposed to simply knowing that something is important. I already have had this conversation with a few people in PM, and we do agree that it is difficult to understand without having experienced this type of stress, whether it was theory-based or applied. Personally, I don't know if I ever wanted to develop the ability to be able to harness this possibly destructive potential, though that is a moot point now. Point is, a lot of us are coming from this perspective, and a lot of the gamers are coming from the perspective where this mindset is not the focal point (or so it seems). And because of that, we're running in circles in our arguments. So, I say let us leave it to the 11th (if that is the final date), and put some of this theory to test.

I got the invite too, so, I'll be there. Been awhile since I got to flick on the proverbial switch, probably be good for the soul to let some of it out. I'll be good for the 11th, as the 18th I have some plans as well.

More details the better, especially if they're coming from a million different sources. What better way to spread misinformation? Counter-intelligence 101

Leave the bickering for PM. Only warning.

Fido - story of a boy and his zombie. I'm more into the "serious" zombie stuff, but, like Shaun of the Dead, I get a good kick out of this one every time. Zombieland - like the above, good for laughs. It does have that underlying tone of how humanity plays a part in the telling of a zombie story, but of course most of the appreciation comes in form of funny moments and "the rules."

I think this is where the principle difference comes in between competitive shooting and "doing-it-live", which is mindset. For me, and two-way ranges, its not about hitting my target, or looking damn good doing it. Its about surviving and ensuring that my buddy survives as well, and my tool, hopefully, is a firearm (or whatever is close at hand). Its about laying down a base of fire in which is effective whether I'm hitting the threat, or I'm making it duck its head. Are things different in a home defense type situation? Yes, as the setting is most likely more intimate. Am I going to have access to a select-fire weapon where I can overwhelm the threat? Definitely not. However, the mindset is the same. I'm going to destroy said threat if it is the best suitable option in that moment (which again comes with preparation and mental conditioning), whether that requires a few well-placed shots (hopefully), or throwing a potted plant and then biting someone's ear off (or I guess applying a blood choke is more realistic). I also need to realize when it is best to egress and live for another day. So, I know my response has less to do about being able to pull a trigger, and more about that "moment" that some of us have encountered. But maybe that's where this whole argument eventually leads?

I'm curious of what the weight of your repeated question is? By saying that gun gaming would get someone killed isn't a literal description of an event. But it can be proven that bad habits have gotten people killed, yes. My stories only come from the military (as I again don't interact with the gun-gaming community). The stories of friendly fire incidents because Soldiers weren't given the proper training, or didn't take things seriously, for positive identification, and/or didn't conduct proper sector of fire. The incidents that involved troops who were taught to always retain a magazine, regardless of whether or not they were in a firefight (or weren't trained properly to do a combat reload), and would lose track of what was on the other side of the two-way range-- and end up getting flanked, getting themselves and/or others killed. Even more recently, all the cases where local nationals being trained by coalition/US troops would turn the weapons on the trainers. If bad habits weren't created over time, how many lives would have not been lost? So, yes, admittedly I don't have exacting cases you are requesting, but I do know of incidents occurring where bad habits, even by people of my same cloth, led to them and/or others being casualties. As for there being no substitute for training, absolutely agree. I too get a bit tired to see people tacticool their Ken dolls without actually putting some thought behind it, and then saying that they would use it to defend their life and their loved ones. Of course that is their choice, and its not in my place to question their motives (I'll just "move down the line"). Instead of getting a red dot system or vertical front grip or totally rad light/laser system, they could probably afford a lot of ammunition and range time and become proficient with a bare-bone system for example. Or they, from those previous funds, could afford to get into at least a basic firearms course where the instructor drills more about mindset than trigger pulling.

I don't personally have interaction with gamers or gun gaming, so, I can't say I have empirical data that suggests that being a pure gamer will get somebody killed. But studies do indicate that participating in one type of action versus another can result in a person developing bad habits. In my training, with mil, it was called "muscle memory." I believe the other term for it is auxiliary memory. Muscle/auxiliary memory focuses on the idea that in a high stress situation, a person will revert to what they have done through repetition. This is the reason why early learning, notably in grade school, focused on repetition-- why certain fields of study are learned not through critical thinking, but [boring] repetition. The same applies to why, at least in the Army, rifles are issued the second day of BCT, and that there are always a few hours in the day where IET Soldiers will lay in the prone and dry fire (sometimes while having a full canteen hanging off the front of the barrel). The concept, in a way, is based on the "10000 hour" rule (studies show that it takes roughly 10000 hours to truly master something). Its the same reason why when troops are not down range, they spend that time training, training, training, training, and... training. Not so much to keep the proverbial knife sharp, but to truly sear the meticulous movements and reactions into one's brain. It can also explain why its so difficult for troops to come back to civilian life, or why some with PTSD act a certain way (as they have a learned response to deal with stress/fear). Now, as a said, I don't have legit gaming experience. I don't know the ups and downs of IDPA or IPSC or practical multi-gun. Truth is, as I've discussed with others, I don't involve myself in them because I don't want to confuse my brain which is already wired to respond a certain way. I have done some amateur gun-gaming, and, probably as more of a sympathetic response, I started mimicking actions by people who were gamers or were gaming said course. I found myself tripping on what I wanted to do (count rounds) compared to what my body was telling me to do (find cover). I also don't want to confuse myself by gaming with rules (aside from the safety ones of course) because let's be honest-- surviving is more than winning. Like Shane, I have nothing against gun-gaming, as I too find it wildly entertaining (anybody hear of Top Shot? /sarcasm!). There are things that have been implemented from the competitive shooting realm into the tactical, and vice versa-- some of which I implement myself (Costa-style of shooting, brakes, variable power scopes [still working on this one]); and I'm sure there will be many more as shooting evolves.

Nice fireball. Every time I see one of those, I realize that I would never want to use my rifle indoors (as my brake is just as bad) deni, what scope do you have on your rifle? I can't tell from the video really.

Locking this thread as we're way off base, and nobody seems to want to reel it back in after repeated efforts. There is a PM function, use it.

These are a great group of guys that I too have been a customer of for awhile now. As for the SUCKIT promotion, SKD will continue the promotion for the rest of the year, though it will be for free shipping (which is still a pretty good deal).

It seems to me that the consensus here, regardless of how its being said: - is that an AR is a tool that is preferable for whatever use the end user finds it necessary to be. - There is the capability for it to be very accurate, but by no means is an AR a precision firearm. - A person could dump a few hundred or a few thousand into said AR to achieve whatever they want. Whether its punching holes in paper for a few chuckles a handful times a year; or if the AR is the individual's last resort; or, heck, if its a collectible. - To go along with the prior point, a person will pay for whatever quality they are receiving. I do agree that it is foolish to get caught up in the "fanboy-ism", but I think it is equally foolish to think that there aren't proven tiers of overall quality as demonstrated over the years. Point being that not all DPMS/Bushmaster/Oly Arms are of lower quality and will automatically blow up in one's face, or that all Daniel Defense/Colt/BCM/KAC are going to be amazing and somehow run 15000 rounds without ever needing a cleaning (exaggerations here in both cases, I know). - There is value in truly assembling an AR from the lower receiver, up. There is also value in slapping together an assembled lower and assembled upper. Heck, there is value in just buying a complete rifle. People learn about things at different rates, through different means. While the AR is standard as a piece of tool, how a person goes about learning it is on them-- and chances are if they have an AR, they will eventually learn. Probably missing a point or two, but, gosh darnit, I'm starving and need breakfast. Let's cut the elitism crap out of our arguments here. That's not to say don't offer perspective and that there is always a healthy amount of arguing/ribbing that is great for discussion, but arguing about/with our big sticks doesn't really offer any type of relevant information for people who are genuinely wanting to learn. Its not so much about why we use our rifles, but our experience(s) using them that give our information value. So, definitely something that most everybody can contribute at some level.

NSA is definitely in the works, as they are the only major alphabet agency with a military branch. I could also bet that every agency that has an intel branch is grasping for bits and pieces... DHS (and the different elements within DHS), State Dept, DNI, etc. How much of it is raw vs. "action-able" intel would be interesting to know (though we never really will, except in bits and pieces-- like this whole transit rail thing going on right now). But like I've said, and DR, and a million other people, UBL's death doesn't change squat. I think it is a psychological victory in a way, as groups moving forward know the capabilities and lengths the US *could* go (considering how far we have come), but there will always be BGs to deal with.

So? All four of those can be remedied in legal fashions before getting into the hands of the end user.

It was an irrelevant question that could have been taken to PM as it had nothing to do with what the OP was actually asking, and that's why Pete brought it up. So, leave it at that, and lets get back on topic.

I have to ask, what are your credentials to make these assumptions fact?

There are specially modified "stealth" versions of the UH-60, notably used by 160th SOAR. I'm not a rotor mechanic, and don't know those types of details, but these modified stealth-versions are real tech. Of course we're talking about being able to disappear off radar; bucket of bolts still sound like lawnmowers at full blast when they fly anywhere nearby. The rotor (as in the pictures above) are modified in that manner, I believe, to cut down on the thermal signature. As noted in one of those articles, it is interesting to think of why the US would use such tech if Pakistan was in the know... could the compound have had some type of EW (early warning) system? Maybe. Still, an interesting caveat-- thanks for bringing it up, Pete.

Damnit, Ray. Legion of AK users unite to bury this guy who's spewing AK hate in the AK forum ETA: That's a good looking rifle, tuktuk. Ultimak-railed-gas-tube-mount-thing? Seems like a really nice piece of kit, even if it makes the purists cry.

Yep, I haven't really read into any of the details of the reports yet because they will not be complete for awhile. Unless the administration or DOD release a non-redacted version of the AAR, I don't expect we'll know much of the details for at least a couple years. I would go as far as to say that this wasn't even carried about by strictly the USN SEALs, but probably a TF (task force, something like these guys)... but a TF isn't too capable if its on the tongues of everybody-- plus it might cause a media sh-tstorm. Easier to just say it was the SEALs (I'm saying this with no inter-service ribbing).

Aftermarket 15-rounders in the 25-rd body from RRages. Myself and a few others have these, and, in my experience, are pretty solid and reliable.

I think that cruddy 10-rd magazine with the "blue spring" is a pain for everybody. I have personally used RRages for extra magazines, but if you feel like getting official MP15-22 magazines, take a look at these 10 rounders. They even come with the load-assist button on the side (which makes it significantly easier to load). ETA: Love these rifles! Got one myself, always a pleasure to take out to the range. Enjoy!

Let's stay away from the anti-Muslim BS please. Same type of hate has been expressed by every religion, throughout time. Spewing the same isn't going to make UBL any deader, or solve any other world issues.

Visually it looks pretty good, but wtf is the story, haha. I get the whole wildfire thing in Russia, but the snow thing is weird. WEIRD. Maybe that's what they're trying to do on purpose. Confuse you so bad in the first five minutes that you're left in a dazed state for the next 85!

Got the TMCQ MRAD ret, though mostly because the TMCQ MOA ret was OOS. I preferred the MOA ret, but I figure learning MRAD could have some value, esp if I get into precision shooting down the road.

Petey was talking about me actually, haha (yea, called you out). I just pulled the trigger on it, so I guess I'll share some thoughts about the Viper PST 1-4x when it comes in and I get some range time with it. ETA: I do plan on running this scope in the carbine course (MDTS 1&2) next month-- so, assuming I do, I'll give some feedback based on that as well.