DevsAdvocate

Oh lord, they're just posing for a few photos, cut them some slack. lol

The thing that gets me is: while I don't particularly care or understand why a 'FUDD' likes to squeeze every bit of accuracy out of a rifle by shooting it once every hour, I'm not gonna tell him he can't do it. What I'm trying to get at is: they should also give a bit of lee-way to the newer, younger generation of shooters. Especially if it means gearing ranges and clubs toward accepting those types.

Awesome dude! I used to love the MP5... it's such a slick little weapon. And was always widely represented in my favorite action films (Die Hard). Tis a shame we can't get them with their normal length barrels. Even in semi-auto, I would imagine they are fun.

Yeah, I get it Ray. I'd love to come out and shoot with you folks. Maybe I'll see a few of you at RTSP. I am also considering doing the carbine course at MDTS as well.

I'm not discounting those factors (terrorism, 2012, etc) as being drivers of gun sales, and don't really get why it matters. All I care about is that people go buy guns and learn how to shoot them. I don't give two squats if they want to by a .50BMG rifle because they saw one in a video game and wants to be a sniper. The more the merrier. The whole point of the thread is that the old timers will eventually die off, and the question is: will they take the sport with them by taking their ranges with them, and by alienating the younger folks and the newer shooting disciplines? Guns are one component of the equation, but a place to practice is the other.

I would wager that given the states that allow CHLs (I think Texas is one of them) to buy without NICS checks, the number of CHL holders, and the volume of firearms traffic would not be statistically significant to observe when tracking national firearms purchases. According to the chart I supplied, NICS was fully implemented until 1999. Anywho... if we aren't at an all-time high of firearms purchases, then when were purchases at an all time high? The only time I can think of is prior to the passing of FOPA 86, and prior to the 1993 AWB. I guess some folks don't know when their foot is so far in their mouth that they're kicking their own a**. It happens in any hobby, you always get those types.

Yes, because now that we (as a society) have seen the failure of Gun Control, we are less inclined to implement it again. This was suggested by the CNN poll that you disregarded earlier. I think that since the 1970s, things have happened that have shaped our view on school safety, and even firearms safety in a more positive light. Guns aren't toys, and they shouldn't be treated as such. If you want to go run around on Halloween with a gun, as an 8 year old, then use a toy. Lord knows we have the 4 rules for a reason, and using the gun in that manner violates a great deal of them. Nope. I don't really mind that at all. In fact, if the GCA 68 weren't passed, maybe I can buy Guns and Ammo off of Amazon Prime. But hey, apparently your dad's generation didn't mind allowing that to pass, just like they didn't mind you running around with a gun on Halloween.

Because back then, Gun Control was fair game, and just got worse from there. Not to mention some changes to our society... like school shootings. Once stuff like that happened, there was no going back. But that doesn't mean progress is being made today. Frankly, it's a bit irresponsible to give a kid and unloaded gun as part of a Halloween costume... I don't see anyone, even the most ardent pro-gun person, doing that anymore.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/reports/100311TotalNICSBackgroundChecks.pdf Since 1999, the number of NICS checks have increased steadily from ~9M to ~14M... Agreed. But my point is: people buy these things to give them an edge, no? So a CoD player got an AR-15, sees that in the game a red-dot gives an obvious advantage over using iron sights, and wants the same for his own rifle. Where is the fault there? If he wastes his money on a Haako, then that's his choice. He can also waste his money on an ACOG or EOtech as well. The nice thing is they buy all this crap they see in the VGs, then go out an shoot for real. That nice dose of reality lets them re-think their setup, and hopefully even learn more about the sport.

Why not? There are folks of the Democratic/Liberal persuasion who own guns in this state. They're not above being hypocrites ya kno.

Yet even then, they managed to pass GCA '68, slipped Hughes into the FOPA '86, passed the Brady Bill and the AWB. So much for America being a gun friendly country at that time. It took us almost losing our rights to realize they were worth fighting for. It's also why you see the explosion of gun ownership today since the year 2000 and the sunset of the AWB... And so what on the source? Support for Gun Control is at an all time low today, yet it also shows that there was a time when Americans found it to be quite acceptable. Heck, there were people in this state who didn't mind one bit when they instituted the FPID and Permit Scheme... back then it just seemed like "common sense" to them. That was also at a time when there were probably quite a few more gun owners in this state than there are today. I really don't see why you or Joelk are having a hissy over this.

Ummm, I dunno if you noticed that my 'home range' is in PA... yeesh. You'd think by your description of the national shooting scene that things were all candycanes and lollipops when it came to gun ownership and participation in the sport. Yet, there was a long time from the 1970s to the late 1990s where the gun grabbers had us on the ropes and had their way with the 2A. The great revival is happening now though, and for that we are fortunate.

Not true. It's only recently following the dark times of the Brady Bill and AWB that we've seen an upsurge in firearms and accessories. In fact, for a long, long time, most Americans actually favored more gun control than not. That's only turned around in recent years. http://articles.cnn.com/2009-04-08/politics/gun.control.poll_1_gun-laws-gun-owner-rights-people?_s=PM:POLITICS Not to mention the type of firearms that were commonly accepted. Evil Black Rifles are bigger than ever now than they have been at any point in this nations' history.

That pisses me off. Why COLA for retirees but not Federal Workers? I thought we all had to suffer equally here?

You say you have little in common, but you still use all that stuff. Sure the reasons for owning the particular firearms and accessories may differ a bit, but the end result is the same. You're buying those things because you believe they will give you an edge. As for how much of an edge they give you, that always comes down to practice. What is functional to you is kinda cool to someone else. But also, not mutually exclusive. Lighten up a bit, no need to be so defensive here.

Your mil-surp collection wouldn't offend the old timers. That's their "kind of gun", lol. As for showing off or having a nice AR-15? So what? It's called mainstreaming, and it means that firearms are moving from the taboo and stigma that they have and into the realm where they are becoming commonplace and accepted. I also don't see the hang up with the "video game" thing. Is it so terrible that a kid wants to own and shoot an AR-15 because they like to shoot an M-4 in a video game? They're cool guns, and fun to shoot.

It was probably a bit easier for you to get into shooting than someone who never had those influences in life. How is someone who never fired a gun, much less held one, going to get into the hobby? Especially given the great barriers to entry here (getting permits, getting the gun, and then finding a place to shoot it). Most people can't even get over the first few steps.

I'll take ya up on that. When I renew my NRA membership, I'll send you a PM. Thank you.

Awesome description. Better than mine.

I'll put in for it. I'm kinda hoping for Shongum though... but that'll be awhile as well. I mean, is overcrowding really an issue here in NJ? I guess PA spoils me a bit. Their ranges are cheap, well run, and getting a membership is a pretty simple process. They're hardly crowded either. Except for the weeks before hunting season... but I guess that's the case for a lot of clubs.

Again: where is the exclusion in my definition? Are you saying that you three don't like evil black rifles, polymer handguns, etc? You don't like 3-guns? IDPAs? As for the combat vets and police... who cares if they consider themselves "into" guns or not? You make it sound like it's a bad thing to view a firearm as something beyond a tool. Maybe they're shamed into believing that or having a little fun with the sport from time to time. It doesn't have to be all serious you know. Don't be afraid of a little fun. My whole point with that description was to capture what is essentially the new generation of shooters. Folks who didn't have a parent/grandparent/relative who hunted and owned firearms and had to get into the hobby all by themselves. This is especially common in an urban state like New Jersey where many hunters and old time shooters have simply died off or moved away.

Of course. But that whole "stuck in their way" thing with the old timers is kinda the issue here. Especially in regards to ranges and how they're operated. Ranges like RTSP are of the 2.0 generation. While all are welcome there, they are trying to include a lot of the newer generation shooters by not only accommodating them with open arms, but by offering courses and classes there that reflect modern shooting styles... especially simmunition training. Can't wait to try that!

'Selective processing'... sigh. And people wonder why shooting in NJ is going down the tubes. Even if we get folks to buy guns, they will have to go up against boneheaded barriers like that just to shoot them.

Any training I want to do that isn't going to put others' safety at risk. As for fundamentals, they have their place. Why? What's wrong with a mag dump every now and then*? *if done safely

There's a difference Bob. While I may not *understand* why they do it, I don't go out of my way to make a big stink about it to them (I'm just stating the differences in firearms use). Yet they aren't afraid of complaining about others' shooting styles outright. As I mentioned before, it isn't the younger guys who are being the stick in the muds here...