DevsAdvocate

My description takes into account the motives as well as the move to embrace advances in shooting technology. Gun Culture 1.0s see all that stuff and consider it "tacticool". Whether that's a derogatory term or not is up to you. I don't think it is as it represents a culture shift towards a positive development of our sport. You're operating under the assumption that 2.0 folks only like tacticool things and nothing else. I never made that assertion and I don't quite understand the hesitation that I included folks like you into that category. You're literally creating divisions where none exist. As for CCW... 1. Cops don't count. They're there own type of class with a wholly different set of rules. 2. Those who view guns as "tools"? What does that mean? Is there a difference viewing a gun as a "tool" or as a "weapon"? Is it wrong to appreciate them for their "style"? What makes this group so special that they are somehow in a different group?

That's just silly.

Not necessarily. Rumor has it, they are purposefully keeping folks out. Here I am, saying "take my money, I would like to shoot at your range", and these guys are just gonna sit there and not accept that? What's wrong with them?

I don't get why things like rapid fire are frowned-upon. Outside of being a sniper, how is slow-firing on a target a practical form of training? I can see doing it as a warm-up exercise, but transitioning to other forms of practice is very important.

That's kinda the point I'm getting at. Older generations, in general, have a hard time grasping the new trends, and can also be quite resistant to new developments. The older generation of shooting is boring to us younger folks. I can't even begin to understand why some older shooters shoot from a rest at a rate of once per hour while cleaning the bore after every shot... it's boring, and somewhat impractical. Then these guys get all mad when brass from my AK hits their rifle and question why I'm shooting so fast, and what I intend to do with that weapon.

You contradict yourself sir... lookie here: You obviously fall into the 2.0 generation. Serious self-defense students go for the best tools for the job, which are coincidentally the same tools used my police/military, and are also exemplified in video games. So what? Where else are they gonna get exposed to shooting sports? And so what if it's based on image and style? We want these kids in our tent, we want them to spend money on AR-15s, ACRs, SCARs, etc. We also want them to go shoot, and learn the differences between real life and video gaming. You make mainstreaming sound like a bad thing. BS! You don't go through all the effort to carry concealed if you didn't love guns. And one can be serious about self-defense and still enjoy the "tacticool" aspects of shooting. The two are hardly exclusive from one another, and I very much doubt that it is actually the case. I'd bet that the average CCWer in the 'free states' owns a few black rifles with tacticool accessories on them. Not to mention, CCW is a recent invention within our national fabric going back about 20 years (when it really became widespread), and has grown quite considerably along with the Black Rifle Boom. I don't think it does. I think it encompasses what is essentially the next generation of shooting. We need to accept these gamers with arms open into the sport and learn from them as much as they'd like to learn from us. With sports like hunting at an all time low, we need to get our support where we can get it.

I would even put those people in the 2.0 crowd. Especially those who want Concealed Carry. That is very much a modern Gun thing.

Clubs are like churches. You either grow from the youth or die with the old. If a club excludes younger members (purposefully or not), then eventually, as older members die, move-on, etc. you run into a financial crunch. Worse is when its membership looses enthusiasm in the clubs operation... that's when you'll see them go elsewhere and you'll see the range die. http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/28280-the-state-of-shooting-clubs-and-ranges-in-new-jersey-and-the-usa/

It all started with this: Ban on concealed carry at shooting range And has opened up with a huge discussion about the past, present, and future of shooting sports in the United States, and by extension: New Jersey. Here are a couple of takes on the matter: Gun Culture 1.0 vs 2.0 http://www.pagunblog.com/2011/10/19/gun-culture-1-0-v-gun-culture-2-0/ http://www.pagunblog.com/2011/10/20/more-on-gun-culture-1-0-and-2-0-in-clubs/ In short... there is a divide in shooting sports in our country... Gun Culture 1.0 is the OFWGs of our shooting sports. The old timers who hunt bolt-action, like wood on their shotguns, and balk at any pistol that isn't a revolver or a 1911. These guys believe the best shooting practice is slow-firing on a static paper target 20 feet away. These are also the guys that have been around long enough to have guns mail-ordered to their homes (pre-GCA 68) and had to dial a 1-800 number to get updates on Gun legislation in Washington DC. These guys are the "old school", and these guys happen to also sit on the boards of most shooting ranges. Gun Culture 2.0 is the new generation. Kids who grew up playing Counter-Strike, Call of Duty, etc. who got into guns for all things fun and tacticool. They love rapid firing, suppressors, Evil Black Rifles, black tubberware pistols, and combat shotguns with mag extensions to the double digits. They love IDPA, 3-guns, and zombie shoots. They enjoy tactical vests, tac lights, and aggressive stylings of firearms. Unfortunately, they lack places to shoot and practice, and they are looked down upon with scorn by the OFWGs who run most clubs... Unfortunately, GC 1.0 ain't gonna be around much longer, and as OFWGs shuffle off their mortal coils, they (sometimes) take their ranges with them to the grave. What really irks me though is this: what's with all the waiting lists around here? In the RTSP thread, Riverdale was discussed, and it was mentioned that it is under-utilized. Why? Same with Shongum. And a whole host of other ranges. Is this to keep young folks out? New shooters? If we're gonna win here in NJ and across the USA, we're gonna need places to shoot for the new Generation. And these places need to be accepting of new members and their new 'ways'.

Sounds like another club that may die in a few decades. What is the mean age of club members? Is it a lot of younger peeps? Or older members?

Really? Doesn't sound like a lot of people go...

So... why is it so difficult to join Riverdale?

It's weird... Americans are a bit honest when it comes to buying stuff. We have a tendency to accept things at face value and pay for them. In foreign nations, it's okay to haggle, and typically the rule of thumb. I mean, you're not gonna haggle for a can of peas at the supermarket, but cars, guns, boats, etc are all fair game.

The rule with haggling is this: it's always worth a shot. But be respectful, make your case for why you want a lower price, and don't get mad if the seller doesn't accept.

Purrrrdddddyyyyyyyyyyyyy

He adds new ones though... and sometimes quickly removes them. Like a certain Knight in the Kingsguard...

Gun cabinets like the one you discussed are nice if you have some high-end firearms to display, like some nice O/Us or war relics. It's cool if you don't have kids and you keep the ammo locked up. I got the same because... well, it's more secure.

While that may be true for converting a 1911 .45acp into a 9mm, I think the EMP 9mm was built from the ground up with the 9mm in mind.

For me, the distance is worth it. Plus the fact I have SDOs means I'll be there during some weeknights and most Fridays. When the weather is good I'll just shoot over to PA for my $20/yr outdoor range. I figured two things here: 1. It's close (=<20min) so it's worth a shot for $250 for one year. It's a little steep, but I don't have to worry about "range membership Sundays" (like at CR), and it is indoor (yay! I can shoot when it's crappy out). 2. If I decide it's not worth it, I can take solace in the fact that I helped support a new range in Morris County that I would still use even without the membership (just much less). 3. The utility of paying extra to use a rifle is not there... THAT is a waste of money.

I'm on the last one now... well until GRRM puts out the next one. I like these kinds of books myself. I'll snag the kindle version.

Interesting... when I'm done with the Song of Fire and Ice series (Game of Thrones), I'll give that a shot. I got some of the concept from WWZ where they form squares of armed soldiers for accurate volley fire. But that concept would realistically fail given that you will not always have flat, unobstructed terrain.

The more and more I contemplate how to deal with zombie outbreaks, the more I realize that the solution to dealing with them lies in the past. I would wager that a well-drilled and trained Roman Legion can do a much better job sweeping an area of zombies than a brigade of US Army soldiers. For one thing, the Romans wouldn't have to worry about running out of ammo, and could simply use spears and swords to deal with the threat. They would also have shields to push the horde back while chopping them down. All they would need is to bring their provisions within their phalanx and rotate men in and out as they tired. A modern brigade would have to rely on rifles, explosives and heavy weapons... but all that runs out eventually. As does gas for the vehicles. You'd also have to be pretty good at getting headshots all the time while shooting, while simultaneously dealing with an increased mass of creatures. Ideally... in modern times, you could create a hybrid unit using police riot shields, edged spear-like weapons, swords, backed by marksmen with rifles and sergeants with shotguns and pistols to help with any breaches to the line. In an open field, you'd circle the wagons with your provisions and setup a phalanx. But in a city, you could rally at a large structure, and fight from that fixed position with your sword and spear folks holding the entrances and clearing the horde there. Chokepoints are also very important when dealing with the horde as well.

The BCM? Excellent choice. Great quality BCG...

Should I use a particular kind of wax?

I understand that we (the US) has made great strides on improving convoy security... but how long did it take to lock things down the way we did? Hell, for awhile, we barely had enough M1117s to do the job. Much less anti-IED vehicles to clear the way. Planting mines and IEDs killed more warfighters than AK-47s shooting 7.62x39... M1117s ftw though, I got to play around in a few here at work during an orientation.