JonF

So how is it? whats your impression of the decreased trigger pull it claims to have?

Sure, nothing is forever and with this old surplus, its kind of an implicit detail that we all must realize before throwing our hard earned duckets at more and more toys. However, whether you pay 7 or 10 cents/round for x25 (and typical street price is towards the latter, trust me, i shoot a lot of this stuff), its still a bargain compared to even bulk rate factory 9mm at the present. No one can dispute that. You can make up the difference in less than 2 cases of ammo if you already have the donor gun and you're counting the beans. However, this conversion is purely a novelty at this point so while its important to be wary of the costs, its not for your average joe.

One can "inform" ones' self. In matters of higher importance, its our own personal duty to do so.

Are they wood or a molded product? The pic is dark, its hard to tell.

Get the Otis tactical kit. It uses the pull through system and has cleaning rods for .22, centerfire pistol and centerfire rifle with loops and brushes for all common rifle/pistol cals and 12ga shotguns. Even has other goodies in the kit which is all kept in a small and convenient nylon clamshell case that you can keep in your range bag. Here's the kit but i've seen it at shore shot, cheyenne, dicks, and plenty of other places. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=788293

My point, and the general theme here, wasn't to split hairs of the amortization of the shooting expenses of reduced cost caliber conversions. Rather the illustrate the general point of a cheaper alternative. BTW, where are you buying for .07c delivered? As long as its not Bulgarian, I want to get me some.

Great writeup Ty, thanks for the comparo!

7 cents, 10 cents, whats the difference. Any reasonably obtainable centerfire ammo in that price range is a bargain hence the growing popularity of using it in other more modern platforms. In fact I have one of those CNC guns parts AR Tok uppers and it runs great!

Naturally i have a kit on the way... I had been following Kris the gunsmiths' blog and ArfCom thread for a while before this dropped and was happy to see its finally come to fruition. I don't have a pistol yet so i'm still in the planning stages. I'm waffling between a nice gun like a PM9 or a beater Taurus. Either way i want a SS donor for cleaning purposes. To be able to shoot non-reloaded ammo for .10c a shot out of a nice pistol with good ergo's, match sights and endless aftermarket goodies is awesome. While this sounds great, its not without its faults. Tok ammo is actual too long in C.O.A.L. for even 38super mags (like 2mm too long). This means your rounds are going to ride at an angle and you can only get 4-6 loaded in the mag before they just begin to bind due to the friction. There is nothing currently available or supplied to overcome this so there are some other creative options. Some folks have been reloading the cases, mexican match style, at a shorter OAL and some folks have even set back factory ammo which is dangerous and NOT advised. I plan on trying to modify the magazine in various ways to make the follower ride at an angle to see if i can get them to feed freely. Others have discussed bending or stretching the mag to get more clearance but then they run into mag well clearance issues so you would need to start grinding on your frame to accommodate. You must use either a 9mm or 38 super gun as a base so that the breech face matches the tok case. Generally the manufacturers make a common slide for both calibers since they are so close in size that it tends to work for both. Optimally, if you can find a slide with a specific 9mm breech face, it more closely matches the tok shell base diameter since its also rimless, whereas the 38 super is semi-rimmed and slightly larger. 9mm specific slides are hard to find and i'm not sure who (if any) makes them. Not saying 38 super won't work, but for the best extraction, theoretically 9mm would be better. You also need a traditional non-ramped barrel which is sometimes hard to find in the smaller calibers. Ramped barrels are typically employed for 38super for extra case support (think glock style KB) so there is a bit of a built in quandary. FYI, he's experimenting with a G20 in the same way but that has some fundamental issues with the heavy hammer/striker spring and the Glock DA style cocking mechanism so the future of that is unclear. Kris' 1911 Tokarev project blog http://jggunsmith.wordpress.com/2010/08/19/the-tokarev-projects/ His ArfCOM thread http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=49&t=85236

unless you forgot to wear a belt that day. I view range use as very casual unless you are there to practice a very specific type of shooting. Some days i bring a universal paddle to the outdoor range just to be able to keep one of several pistols i brought that day handily by my side as i wander around the field. It does not require any belt but will accommodate one if its there with the build it belt hook system so commonly employed on paddles that add extra stability. Its more or less a convenient place to hang the gun so it doesn't need to be anchored so strongly. Other days i bring my very specific, belt-mounted match rig to practice drawing. Its as solid as a rock but my retention is set rather loose so it will never pose a problem. IMHO, i think the only thing you cna say with any certainty is that you should use the right tool for the job. You have to define your needs first before we can all say what is good or bad. I'm not going to wander around the woods with a ghost holster, nor would i rock a super-tuck at a IPSC match.

I recently picked up a Vortex Sparc to play with on 10/22 for some fun matches. The rifle has a Knoxx pistol grip stock but so this isn't any kind of AR clone therefore i'm limited to just 6" of rail on top of the receiver to pick a position. Vortex says to mount it at least 4" for eye relief so thats not a problem, the closest position on the rail satisfies that point WRT my cheek weld. This is my first red dot on a rifle so i'm not well versed with the advantages/disadvantages of mounting them long or short. Looking around the web, i see both extremes and everything in between so thats no help. Commonly i see the discussion in regards to an AR15 which doesn't apply to me I've noted some of the various talking points below for the differing positions to start, but other than that, i'm curious about what are some of the other philosophies of use in where you mount it? Close ----- pro - Largest field of view available through the tube. pro - front end lighter con - Dot size grows. con - interferes with BUIS (if u have them) con - scope controls interfere with other eyes view of periphery. Far ----- pro - Dot size is smaller pro - Can use BUIS pro - less interference of view periphery con - FOV gets small con - front heavy

He may have had a PA carry permit since he was a resident of Litiz, PA, hoever it was expired. Moot fact though since the permit is NG here. Sounds like he may not have been appropriately informed as to the facts of carry and reciprocity. But now he has other things to worry about.

Re: Liability, same as when you adjust your sear set screw down so far it locks out the disconnect? Think the ATF will care however you monkey with your gun when you turn it into a machine gun? Giselle didn't pull the trigger that day. But this is all as speculative as the more or less lethal ammo in court argument. Make no mistake, Bill's trigger work is professional, he's no 2-bit hack. For what the OP's looking for, that giselle is way past the point of diminishing returns. There's no argument of quality, but rather whats appropriate to the context and I don't think he's looking for bragging rights.

And the number one answer to what gets pass around the most: Survey says, Your WIFE!

Friends don't let friends buy Fobus (clamp retention gun holsters). The retention is so overboard on those, even the adjustable ones will pull the holster off your belt before letting the gun loose. For a good quality adjustable clamping retention holster, look at Blade-Tech. Otherwise, there are a myriad of latch type retention from Blackhawk (serpa), Safariland, iTac, etc, it really just depends on what you want to do. Competition (practical or race)? Concealed carry? Range carry? Round the house carry?

Sounds like you want a simple, no fuss trigger with a lighter than GI-stock feel? There is also the option of a Bill Springfield trigger job. 3-4 lbs of crisp SA pull on stock GI parts for $50. http://www.triggerwork.net/ar15.html

People run comp's all the time on competition pistols. If the gun was sold with a threaded barrel, take advantage of it. Specifically, the law states that for handguns, two or more of the following would be a no-go. You have only 1 so you're in the clear.

I did the flip on my URX and the pull measures about 2.5# on my gauge.

Maks, i just asked him last wednesday if he carried CCI primers and he does stock them at $32 per K.

You're right Glenn, i had a brain fart and was thinking of the M30 Yugo 54r heavy ball ammo which is brass cased.

Its sickening how they keep using the term "firearm" in reference to the item the kid possessed or more specifically, "imitation firearm" It's so bogus, its not an imitation of anything. What it is is a nerf toy, nothing more, not a deception. I would be humiliated if i were in law enforcement and had to be involved with this case,

a Dan Wesson Valor and then a Hi-Point in every caliber.

its true that they generally gouge you on the shipping, but in this case, it still works out in favor of the buyer. And a deal is a deal, no matter the price split.

I've shot a bit of tok ammo and here's my .02. I had a much more indepth review of the various ammo's some time back if you're feeling frisky with the search button. Polish is good. It sometimes has cracked necks, but its safe to shoot and is very consistent. JG has it for even cheaper than SG. I shoot a lot of this. don't get tetanus from the tin. Bulgarian is just crap and will often fail to fire. Some where even overpressure. Avoid at all costs. Even if free. Romanian varies very wildly in dimension and OAL such that it often wont chamber in my CZ and rifle and ends up locking it up tight as the ogive wedges itself into the lands. this is a dangerous pressure situation in any gun. If your gun wont go into battery while shooting romy, abort and get that thing out of there at all costs asap. Romy TT33 pistols have big sloppy fat girl chambers and will shoot this stuff ok though. Yugo is probably the best quality but most expensive since its brass cased. Its primers are hard and sometimes requires a doublestrike to ignite. Shoots OK in the Yugo M57 tok pistol since the hammer springs are wound such that even Hellboy has trouble pulling the trigger.

JG just got a batch of 870 Police and Police Magnum trade-ins for sale. $300 http://www.jgsales.com/index.php/cPath/302_351