bulpup

We, or make that I, am not fighting.

I knew it would be iffy when I posted what I did. For the record I don't want to stifle any one's anything. I was interested in knowing if there is a common thread to what I was reading mainly because I am new to the state and thought perhaps I was missing a lot of back story. If there isn'tany I am fine with it. I do wonder at times why a random news story is posted with no commentary by the poster with no comment other than a link, but even I am guilty of that so I don't judge.

I hate to sound like a dipshit here, but I really have to ask why you found this important enough to repost in a gun forum? I know it is a general discussion but it seems a little out of place, like the story about the woman getting run over. Am I missing some connection here? >

exactly. That threshold is vital for a gun owner because the pull of the trigger is ALWAYS "Deadly Physical Force," and never just physical force. Where that threshold lies is different from state to state. Again, I thank those that provided the actual statutes. The reason I asked this question is primarily for my own knowledge but also because I have made the move from another state. A friend of my wife had asked about getting a firearm and she had great concern over actually shooting someone. The one thing NYC does right is require that you demonstrat the knowledge of when DPF is justified. The difference between NY and NJ on the inclusion of rape is very important for a young woman. She is an attractive woman and lives alone. The last thing you want is to have that woman second guess herself in a rape situation. Imagine the situation; the man might be saying over and over that he isn't going to hurt her and not brandishing any weapon. She might not get killed or hurt but she will be raped. In NY she is justified in using DPF and it doesn't matter that her assailant has no weapon at all and has not stated an intent to do harm. In NJ I believe the laws take this into acount but yet it is not clearly stated. Of courseknowing the law helps me to, but helping others is a good goal for any gun owner.

I dont think that applies if he is in your home, but that's what I was taught. Of course if he's much bigger than you, the jury will sway your way with the outcome, but im talking general self defense principals, walking down the street and someone confronts you. It sounds like what you are talking about is the use of physical force, not "deadly" physical force. I prefer not to get caught up in discussions like those because I have, in my old age, found those confrontations easy to avoid. Mind you, the word is "confrontation," not assault. The other thing to think about is that the word "justified" is not meant to justify that your choice of weapon is based on your attacker's weapon, but that "DEADLY" physical force is justified. There is a threshold that is far above a physical altercation. Once you are at that point your weapon is whatever is at hand. Having a fight on the street with some DB is not how you want at arrive at DPF. Just leave.

luckily we have been provided direct links to the NJ laws so we do not have to speculate.

Wow, what service! The bill in .PDF form, what is it's current disposition? It seems some off the language is already written into law. Is this true or is it still yet to be finalized? One interesting distinction between NJ and NY is that DPF is justified to stop rape. Most I met in NY considered that an important distinction since you do not have to prove the fear death or even serious bodily harm. For instance, a strong attacker could force compliance simply by being stronger, not necessarily by threat of harm. It is odd that there is no mention of that in NJ.

Again, something my feable mind could not find using a keyword search. Could someone direct me to any actual legal documentation of when it is authorized to use deadly physical force in NJ?

But the coolest thing was that the USAF Thunderbirds took on the economy T-38 Talon for their performances, which I enjoyed and still remmeber to this day!

Yeesh. I have to admit I had to look up all those initials. I had no idea there were new vests. That one and the SAW gave me the only lasting injury I got from the military in the form of tendonitis in the shoulder. The new vests don't seem to hang on the shoulder. :cry: I would have liked that.

Wow, that is not the reply I expected. Thanks.

I think I already know the answer, but I couldn't find it on this board so I figured I might ask just to make the answer findable through a search. Can I take a friend to the range to shoot my handguns if they do not have a FPID?

http://www.theonion.com/articles/actor- ... bed,17304/

correct. My M249, aka "the pig" Full up momma sized. Nothing cut down about that thing. I had a 400 day marriage with that thing. That is the fullest armor you can get outside of a bombsquad. Front and rear plates, left and right sides as well. The Wings were an extra touch the commander wanted- those are Kevlar. 100 round 'nutsack' 3x200 round drums about the body. That was still 100 rounds short of the basic load, because once we got to another FOB it was easier to carry the 100 round bag and not the drum. Incidentaly, that sling is a jury rigged Spec Ops version originally made for the M4. I was issued it and I figured I could make it work and not have to spend the extra cash.

pfft. Hump one of these for a year and that thing looks like a stick. And by hump I mean carry

Interesting comments. I am reminded of the reports that of all the people that in some way contributed to the preservation of forests, the greatest amount of money and time given to preserve them come from riders of off-road vehicles. I believe hunters come in second but only because hunting seasons are much shorter than riding seasons.

I'll tell you what, I have been digging a french drain by hand the last week. I would have loved something like that.

I had been told long ago that keeping the mags loaded would do more to the strength of the lips than the spring. Is this not true?

Thats a good one. Not much room for debate on its usefulness. I get tired of answering that call with the recording telling me my car is out of warranty.

I voted yes too, and I don't fear open carry outside of major urban centers. But I do believe somewhere like New York City would be problematic for open carry. As was said, if the criminals wanted a handgun they would get one. Well yea, if a criminal wanted an iPod he could go buy one too, but they will take yours just the same. While it is true you don't hear much about criminals trying to take a cop's weapon you have to know that that is because of the ability of the cop to radio and get coordinated back up in the form of more armed cops with radios - and pissed off to boot. You and I don't have that. You and I would most likely have a nice new pistol worth hundreds of dollars that is easier to sell than a diamond necklace on display. As mentioned earlier, a brick in the back of the head will not be deterred by your quickdraw skills. Concealed carry in the city is the way to go. But I voted yes anyway just to let it be known that we want change.

I would reccomend anyone volunteering in this capacity regardless of carry. I had been an NYPD auxilliary in 2001. On 9/11 I was there helping, not looking outside. I had so many interesting and eye opening experiences and really got a chance to help people. You have to be involved before the s*it hits the fan if you want to make a difference.

I agree. A good friend of mine was robbed in the now classic and very common way in NYC; Two guys walked past her, turned and hit her in the head with a brick. They stole everything she had while she was unconcious. This was at 8am walking to a subway in a Brooklyn.

Don't complain too much. My restricted premise handgun permit from NYC had a color photo, description of my appearance; make, model caliber and serial number of every firearm I own. It was plastic and laminated with a laser etched 'hologram' of "New York City Police Department" across the front. All that for $360 each time it was renewed, which was every three years. I'll take the $60 library card

1. Application type (FID/permit w/ existing FID).new FPID and 2 handgun permits <edit>Applied for 2 new permits in April 2012. 2. Police Department where you applied. Morris Plains 3. Name of the person you dealt with at the PD. Det. Dobbins <edit> Dt. Dobbins has since retired. It is now Det. Kohn and Det. Rapp. 4. Time taken to issue FID and/or permit. 30 days 5. Documents required by the PD None <edit> Usual two plus a third form - state form consenting to criminal records check for non-criminal purposes. 6. Notes - anything pertaining to the application process. Officers other than the detective asssigned to process applications were unaware of the newest fingerprint proceedures. Had I listened to them I would have been mislead and the process would have been longer. Very friendly though. The Detective doing the processing was straight forward, no nonsense but aloof until after the approval came through. Don't be put off. <edit> The new detectives in charge will return your phone calls in a day or two and send off paperwork on the same day. My references got their forms the day after I dropped off the application in the morning. <edit> The new detectives in charge of this are fast, thorough and know exactly what they are talking about. You are a lucky person if you are looking to get a permit in this town.

Thanks for the answers. This one caught my eye. It might be academic to discuss this but I like to work these things through for a bit so I don't have to when the Sit hits the fan. I would think that if it came to this I would tell them "Well you should know that means I am going to shoot it with my pistol because I am not going to get close a wild animal with rabies." I would bet they would come quite quickly. Problem with that is, if your town has a "No Discharge within Limits" Ordinance, you'll get your a** jammed up. I think the point we were discussing is, if you were told to or infered that you had to kill the animal because the police and animal control were busy and you said to them "I am going to shoot it," instead of just doing it, you would be told not to. They would then show up post haste.