Bob B

Thank you. Please let us know how things go today.

Maat922, I think what everyone is getting at is, we believe your story and we want to show support and we certainly know that NJ gun laws are ridiculous and put good people in perilous positions, but, we want to verify that there isn't something else to the story. If we get behind something like this, and then we find out that he has a violent criminal history or something (totally making that up but you get the point) the media will have a field day with it and say that we support criminals with guns or some such nonsense. So, we have to verify. That means that we need to see the court documents and read them for ourselves and make an informed decision. Obviously, it's the 11th hour so it's too late to be able to do all of that. But, if things don't go well tomorrow, please post a copy of the court documents (or email them to me - my email is in my signature block below - and I'll post them for you) and perhaps we can bring some attention to the matter. If things go well tomorrow, I would still like to see the court documents. It may be helpful when we speak to legislators.

This is a good website. You can click on any state to see a summary of their laws and links to the state websites. http://www.handgunlaw.us/ http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/pennsylvania.pdf

The judge, again, was not satisfied with the new certification and asked for an "en camera" review of the guide. That means that the judge will look at the guide in his chambers. The judge gave the defense another opportunity (third time) to submit another certification along with the guide identifying the parts of the guide that would cause harm if released. The defense indicated that they would submit the guide to the judge within a couple of days. The problem for the defense is, if they identify any particular part of the guide that would cause harm if released, they are admitting that the remainder of the guide can be released, so they will likely just submit the guide for review with no further certification and the judge will likely make his decision once he sees the guide, without having any further oral arguments - but there are no guarantees.

What's really frustrating is to see the AG waste tens of thousands of tax dollars to defend what is clearly a misguided decision to withhold the guide.

Of course, we will post whatever is released to us.

I hope the judge shares your opinion.

The judge has scheduled another oral arguments for this Friday, 10/7 at 9:30 AM. Yes, I will post the most recent documents in the OP as soon as I get a chance. edit: OP has been updated with three files containing the most recent court documents.

Masciandaro vs. United States is the better case. It looks like the decision to grant cert is still pending.

For now, we just have to wait and see what the judge wants to do next.

Recap: During our first court date (July 12th) the judge (Judge Hurd) was not satisfied with the NJSP's brief and, in particular, a certification from Lt Schleuter of the NJSP firearms investigation unit. Rather than ruling in our favor, he gave the NJSP 45 days to submit a new, more detailed certification. He gave them a do-over. After the 45 days, the NJSP switched attorneys (for the second time, now their third) and asked for a 30 day extension. You pretty much have to agree to extensions, because, if you don't, the judge will give it to them anyway and think that you are being uncooperative. So we gave them another 30 days, which was up on Sept 30. We received their new certification, and we have already filed our response. At this point, the judge may schedule another hearing, or he may rule on the papers. We don't know which. The good news is that the new certification did not provide any more detail and actually asked the judge to "imagine" what might happen if the guide were to be released. Fortunately, imagining is NOT a legal standard.

Can you get the PPP packet?

Understood. I appreciate that you are going out of your way to get the forms.

Much appreciated!

Carneys Point is a possibility. Are you able to get a copy of the forms that they use? I would need to verify that they have some type of additional requirement that we can challenge. Jackson is in Ocean County which we are staying away from for this phase, but they may be good for phase III. If you can send me their forms, I'll add them to our library so we can consider them for the next round. My email address is in my signature block below. If you are not able to scan and email them, you can mail them to New Jersey Second Amendment Society P.O. Box 128 Manahawkin, NJ 08050 Thanks for your help.

It's good to hear about police departments that are getting it right. I always ask for 6 because you can get the 90 day extension.

If you want to be a serious competitor, you will learn to shoot with both eyes open. When shooting pistol, you can put a small piece of tape on your glasses on the non-dominant side. It does not have to be big as long as it is in the right place, so only your dominant eye can see the target while in position. When shooting rifle, you can use a piece of cardboard or plastic and attach it to the rear sight to block your non-dominant eye. For skeet and trap, you need both eyes. If you google Olympic pistol or Olympic rifle images, you're sure to see several examples. Good luck.

Still looking for plaintiffs (Ocean City, Egg Harbor Township or Pennsville).

+1.

That's about the size of it. Doesn't instill much confidence in our AG, does it.

The judge is Douglas Hurd. Our attorney is Richard Gutman. See the first post for PDF's of the court documents.

Thanks for the support!

NJSP assigned a new attorney (their third) to the case and asked for another 30 day extension, which is up at the end of September. At that point we will have the opportunity to respond. Then, the judge may decide based on the documents, or we may have another day in court.

Did you look at the document attached to that thread? It is something that you can print and show them if you have any trouble.

See this sticky: http://njgunforums.c...not-be-limited/ It contains a letter from the NJSP to all Chiefs with a paragraph stating that municipal PD's may not limit PPP's. You can print it out and show it to your PD personnel to solve the problem. What township are you in?