galapoola

According to a former prosecutor and also the intake person at the TRPD, Judge Gizinski is your person. Somewhere on the Ocean County website there is a listing for her secretary and law clerk. Probably best if you contact them instead of Her Honor. Also, my town PD and the state online system has been sped up considerably. I applied for pistol purchase permits and got the confirmation email in 8 business days. I’ve never gotten anything in less than a month. So at least Toms RIver has people in the PD working on these.

I dropped my packet off at the Toms River PD Tuesday 7/19/22 and all my references got a phone call that Friday. BTW, the instructor at Shooters is actually named on the NJSP site under ranges that offer classes for qualifying. He is retired NJSP. The lead time for the fingerprints and qualifying has taken the longest so far.

The NJ statute doesn’t even have to change when a favorable SCOTUS decision is handed down in June. The linch pin has always been the “letter of need”. So leaving the law alone, the issuing body (superior court judge) simply accepts your letter of need attached to the application. We describe our need as self defense and all lawful purposes per the SCOTUS opinion. Strangely, the bass-ackward way this state issues carry permits works in our favor. We won’t have to wait 6 months for the legislature to craft a new law. Judges understand higher court’s and with the favorable ruling they simply allow the court’s wording in the letter of need. They won’t need the AG’s permission or the governor’s order or some new law to act. I really think they can “shall issue” this thing with the law as is following the SCOTUS directive.

My underlying reason for starting this thread is gathering some real world information on #6 in the state pdf in original post. My guess is that when SCOTUS releases it's opinion in June, if it is favorable, then a NJ resident can just use "Self defense and all legal purposes" in the letter of need. That said, you'd still need to have proof of a qualified course(s) signed off by a certified instructor. I was hoping an armored car driver or similar would respond since they would be the only non-LEO who has gone through the process and had a judge sign off. Anything else is just a best guess. I appreciate the response from Mr Stu. You are correct, NJ was the first state to join in on the Bill of Rights. IIRC, our NJ lawmakers amended the state constitution in the 1950's and removed the section that was similar to the BOR 2ndA. Someone was playing the long game because they have been incrementally squeezing away firearm rights for decades.

Have you applied for a "State of New Jersey Permit To Carry A Handgun"? Can you tell us how your suggestion satisfies everything, please give us a citation or link, thanks. No need to get nasty, I said please.

After SCOTUS ruled on the constitutionality of stun guns, IIRC it was a case from Boston, the NJ AG offices issued guidance that the NJ statute would no longer be valid and so long as you were 18 and not a prohibited person, no license or permit required to posses. Similarly, if SCOTUS rules you don’t need a reason to exercise a right in the NY case, our laws can remain as is except no letter of need is required. I’m thinking they strike down the subjective nature of the scheme and make it objective. No judge or clerk deciding if you are worthy. Like what happened in Wash DC. That or self defense and all legal activities is a good enough reason in a the letter of need.

Have you applied for a "State of New Jersey Permit To Carry A Handgun"? Can you tell us how your suggestion satisfies everything, please give us a citation or link, thanks.

Funny that you cite GFH. I’ve reached out via their website many times, never heard back. My question was simple, what is the course and do you offer it. IIRC there is nothing in the statute that says what is a qualified course or qualifies someone to be an instructor. I took a course many years ago for the FL and VA permits. I’m sure they were bare minimum since the whole thing was a non-resident permit mill. Not that it was a bad thing, I and the other fifty people got what we needed to send our check and forms in for the permits. In six months we in NJ may be able to use “self defense” in the letter of need. My query here is what course satisfies #6. I’d rather take the class local if possible but could make the day trip if necessary.

I found a document here https://www.state.nj.us/njsp/firearms/pdf/Permit_to_Carry.pdf Number 6 on the pdf says: Written proof of qualification with the handgun(s) you intend on carrying if your application is approved. This must be recent at the time of the application and must also be obtained from a certified firearms instructor. My question for anyone who has actually gone through the process, what course did you take that satisfies this requirement?

Or an asteroid hits earth. Lighten up, the is is the best news we could hope for. A quick filing, 6-3 majority. You should be rejoicing.

This is a win, win, win. Trump has put enough judges on the third circuit that we may get one for phase one. Win or loose we go to appeals and again we can draw 2 of the three conservative judges. If we win there it is over, NJ would not appeal to SCOTUS. There is enough pressure from the deep state to compel them. They don't want a SCOTUS opinion to affect the whole country. If we loose through appeals, then we win at SCOTUS. There is no down side to this except the long wait. This is good news for sure. This is due to the confirmation of Amy Coney Barrett, thank you President Trump.

With the Ginsburg replacement we would seem to have a solid 5 originalist votes. Roberts is an afterthought for agreeing to hear/decide a pro-carry outside the home case. We know that the liberal forces have intervened in the past in not appealing to SCOTUS when they loose in appeal (i.e. Moore v. Madigan) for fear of nationalizing a pro 2A case. My question is what cases are out there that can be appealed to SCOTUS? The one in Hawaii is going en-banc before the court of appeals. If the liberals are consistent they'd rule that the HI may issue is unconstitutional so they it won't be heard at SCOTUS. That saves the WHOLE USA from a pro-2A decisions. However, the population in that circuit is way huge and any pro-2A ruling affects every state in the 9th circuit. Is there anything else out there that can be brought to SCOTUS once Judge Amy Coney Barrett is seated?

I have an open suggestion for anyone listening. Here's the setup, Trump has appointed a record number of federal judges including in our district. We remember what happened in Illinois, a CCW law made it to the court of appeals and we won. The deep state read Illinois the riot act and they refused to appeal to SCOTUS. Reason? Gun control power brokers feared a decision that would affect the whole country and effectively sacrificed Illinois. Bad for them and good for us. Now here's the ask on my part. Someone please file a new lawsuit with enough changes so that it doesn't get brushed aside for being similar to what's been reviewed already. Our only chance is that we now have a numerically superior chance of getting a conservative judge in circuit court. If so we win and it may end there. If it goes to court of appeals and we draw 2 conservatives and we win again, it will be game over for NJ justifiable need. Why? Deep state gun control would tell NJ to stand down like they did in Illinois for fear of a favorable 2A opinion that would affect HI, CA, MA, NY, MD and any others I missed.

DISTRIBUTED for Conference of 5/1/2020 Here we go. NYC is remanded back to court of appeals, NJ case has been sitting almost one year since last discussed in conference. Since NYC case was not really a good one for carry and justifiable need, NJ may be just the one they'll take.

Is anyone driving over the water to PA or DE?

The very last thing you want to do is ask the NJSP for permission or an opinion. Years back someone started making an M1 Carbine that was not etched with "M1" anywhere. By name it was not an M1, it only looked like one. Since some firearms are banned by name in the statutes, this one was exempt. Or so we all thought. A well meaning chap asked the NJSP and another well meaning NJSP chap went so far as to say in writing on NJSP letterhead that the non labeled M1 was OK to possess in NJ. Dealers had already been selling these and people were in legal possession (a big joke in the moving target that is NJ firearm law). The letter was out in the wild and someone, believe it was the attorney general, said no and ordered all rifles back to the dealers. That's how it goes here. If you don't ask and go on the assumption you're good, you become a potential test case. Don't have PD raid your house and don't breakdown or crash on the way to the range. You take the risk.

I think 10 years is enough time. That anniversary is coming up. We've watched the NRA, SAF and others work the courts. SCOTUS has refused to hear a carry case. We can wait around for the two oldest Democrat justices to retire or expire. That could take years. Maybe the best thing to do is make the convention of the states happen. When the people cannot get relief from an out of control government, they have three choices. Election, insurrection and Constitutional amendment. The first hasn't worked. The second did work back in the day but not without a heavy price. The third is already under way. Since the legislators and courts can't seem to figure this out, why not the people?

" Rogers is "on-hold" pending the NYSR&PA case that SCOTUS already granted CERT to. " Can you cite why it's on hold pending the NYC case? Haven't heard that anywhere and of course the justices never leak why they are holding something. Is that just conjecture? Concerning carry at your place of worship, this came up at our church. Since a house of worship is not a business you may be hard pressed proving it falls within the exemption so part ownership may me tricky. A better idea is to rent a desk, room or office space in the building. It could be shared space (i.e. put your name or business name on a placard on a desk in the existing office space). You need keys and alarm code for the building. Register a company name with your town so you have a legal document stating your business name and address. I believe it was $40 in my town about 20 years ago. Open up a PayPal account with said name. In the rental/lease agreement have it specify that your business has use of the whole property and all buildings. Make sure your business has the stated purpose of consulting and research including said buildings and property. Stand up a website with the information that aligns with the stated purpose. Get 500 business cards from Vista Print for $9.99. Pay a monthly rent or lease, it can be in place of your normal giving. You now have a legitimate business on the property with the hours of operation as you determine. You should have some money flow in and out. You can legitimately do house of worship security evaluations and consulting. One customer can be your place of worship. Have them pay you something for your ongoing evaluation of said business. Don't list security as your business, then you fall into a category that needs all kinds of permissions from the state. Make it legit. The statue does not state how much you need to make, just that it is your business. If you have partners, then they can all carry as well. If you ever get pinched you'll have all you need to support your legitimate business exemption. Transport unloaded from home to place of worship, load and carry while you are on the property. IMHO this is 100% legal in NJ per the statutes. Your millage may vary when and if you have a defensive situation or the "only ones" find out.

This is the one that has been "Distributed for Conference" as of 5/23/2019 and that's all we know Thomas Rogers, et al., Petitioners v. Gurbir Grewal, Attorney General of New Jersey, et al. This Cheeseman filing is new to SCOTUS, not sure if he's filed before under a different petition. The bottom line is that the NYC case will be heard no date set for oral argumants, the Rogers petition made it to conference for SCOTUS to consider and Cheeseman has just been filed.

Once the NJ Supreme Court is done, then there is nothing left to do in their courts. SCOTUS has no obligation to review a state case nor do they monitor them for review. The plaintiff or defendants have to file with SCOTUS. Regardless of whether this went to NJ courts or not, anyone can go straight to the federal courts so long as you pay the fee and file your complaint. What I found interesting is that they did not file with the lowest federal court, the district court. You have to make your case with SCOTUS why you are forgoing that and they may throw it back to the district or accept.

https://www.ammoland.com/2019/06/challenge-to-njs-may-issue-handgun-rule-filled-with-supreme-court/#axzz5sMyFNxD2 Another filing apparently straight to SCOTUS. Looks like they skipped right over Federal district and appeals courts. This dropped last week and was reported on 6/30 by Ammoland.

May 07 2019 DISTRIBUTED for Conference of 5/23/2019. https://www.supremecourt.gov/search.aspx?filename=/docket/docketfiles/html/public/18-824.html So now we have an actual date for conference, that's a Thursday so the following Friday or Monday for a yes/no. I'm confident that either NYC and/or our NJ case will make a substantial difference. We should have a solid 4 to vote it out of conference to be heard. Don't need a majority as has been stated prior. Good news.

There may not be a need to re-write anything. If SCOTUS says NJ cannot ask for a need and/or self defense is a justifiable need, then you march into your PD and submit a letter of need with "self defense" as the reason and reference USA No. 18-824

Since this is not a legislature move (bill to law) it could be retracted as soon as SCOTUS dismisses

This begs the question, can you go to your friend's home in PA and build a 1911 then drive back to NJ with your property? I've always maintained that NJ firearm laws do not apply while you are in PA and as far as I know there are no laws in PA prohibiting you from building a gun, resident or not. That card we all have is for long gun purchase (older ones like mine say long gun carry as well) and the PPP is for buying a handgun. Neither of these is for possession of a firearms so if it's yours, you should be able to transport it from a place you can legally posses it to home in NJ.