Shane45

I believe its a metal extending baton.

A couple thoughts, you never know what will be yielded when you raid a house. What is the ROI if you recover NOTHING which does happen. Just understand that to get a warrent, a lot of very specific things had to happen including either undercover work or a confirmed CI. But does this mean we stop when we dont get a bathtub full of coke? Hell no, hit em again! The topic of the criminality of POT is another matter. But what must be considered is the culture and criminality of drug trafficing. SO much is attached to this trade that has far reaching rippling effects so it simply isnt just about the pot. To answer to the comment about alcohol and cig's. They are legal because the government makes a metric ton of money on them. The government is willing to overlook the impact on the population for a pile of cash. Again for reasons of money, the government will not take away the rights of the few who dont abuse it because of the ones that do. Too bad they dont think that way when it comes to the second amendment, but there is no money in it . The cost to produce a pint of rubbing aclcohol and hard boose is roughly the same. The difference in price is mostly tax. The tax has exceeded the manufacturers profit in many cases.

Yeah but I dont know of a flash hider that has threads that big to fit over the brake . Deni, which one specifically because those stoners on that link even though being sold as comps would in my opinion be considered flash hiders here.

Tell ya what, go pick the one ya like and Ill tell ya if I think its ok or not....

As I understand it the state is cracking down on the shutgunners. Art (a mgr there) told me a place very local to their range just got their skeet field shut down...

Ron, been there done that. I gave up because the Game mindset doesnt work well. It just kept getting me in trouble or screwing me up. The "someone might be shooting back at me" mindset works a lot better! My scores improved a lot when I did this. That is not to say there isnt something I tactically totally disagree with here and there. I choose those times wisely. Id rather lose a match or a stage and win in a real engagement. I know a few others that do the same.

Once they push the rifle berm out to 600 Im dropping my CJ membership and going there.

Heres what a polite society cof looks like!!!

In the very begining of IDPA, IIRC you were not allowed to see the stage or the competitors before you. Great in theory, Im guessing it was really hard in practice. There are also competitions called Polite Society matches. I have never attended one. I hear its hyper critical and demanding. Sort of like IDPA on steroids and far closer to what IDPA was in the beginning.

The "one" way is only relevant if you care about winning. I do in fact take a lot of penalties at times when I dont like the way a stage was set up rule wise. With that being said I can honestly say that a few things I disagreed with in the begining, I have come around too later. Reload with retention being one of them. A tac reload on the other hand, I have more trouble warming up to. I can only see it really for a pistol that has a mag safety.

As for practice, even in NJ I have had no trouble. I fired about 2000 rounds this summer easily. 90% of that was at shooting matches. That is exactly why I like IDPA. Were else can you get someone to set up everything, include targets and steel, and shoot all day for 10 dollars!!!! Even if you have a disqualified gun and you have your own ideas on tactics, just take the penalty and do it your way. You wont be classified and you likley wont win, but you will get to see what shooting is like outside of standing in a lane shooting a hanging target. Most find it very humbling and MOST wont go back to static shooting unless they really have no interest in defensive shooting. Many ask why I dont really shoot when I meet up with everyone at BA. Im not there to shoot really, just to meet everyone. That type of shooting doesnt do anything for me other than maybe a weapons familiarity indoc. Competition WILL make you a more effective shooter. There is no theory in that. Its just that some competitions may cause you to pick up dangerous habits. Thats what this discussion is really about. But even if you picked up a bad habit or two, you will still be FAR ahead of someone that doesnt. I cant even begin to count how many people I have either brought or witnessed at a match that thought they were a good shooter because of their qual at the PD or their own static experiences that dont even make it through half the stage because they are stuck on targets they just cant hit. One of the things competition provides is a little bit of stress indoc. By no means a match for a real gunfight but certainly an indicator of what happens to you under stress due to being on the clock with 20 or so peers watching you! It has value. Where does the stress manafest its self? Concentration, mental malfunctions, and reloads! You simply would not believe how many shooters start searching every pocket for a mag instead of their mag pouch! Why? Stress caused them to stick their hands in pockets they always look for things in!

Ron, its a valid point and raises the question. Do I count on the law of averages that your probably a bad shot and stand still and take the shot and count on speed and hope for your miss should you get the shot off first or do I move which could delay and make my own shot more difficult? I have seen arguments for both sides of the fence. Now granted the picture I have painted is probably one of the least likely scenarios to present its self unless your in theater. But I used it to isolate the topic of discussion. Heres what I think. 1 Target Mos Drill 2 targets, 1 on each then return unless they are far apart or far away. 3 targets, 1 on each and then shoot for muzzle flash! I stick to the one on each beacue I really think that even a fast shooter just cant do it fast enough!!! Even looking at my own video, if I was facing me and my own mediocre skills, I would easily drill me as the single shooter by the time I got to target 2 if I was shooter 3 on the other side!

You will notice on stages where there was no cover, you had to keep moving or you got a procedural violation. Shoot and move, shoot and move. Work towards cover. No cover, shoot and move, then RUN!

??? You shoot and move silly!

The answer to that is understanding the difference between cover and concealment. Fireproof filing cabinet, cover, sheetrock, concealment. Wood burning stove, cover, hollow core door, concealment.

Unlimited ammo? Please explain? I could melt a barrel in an hour!!! OK maybe not melt a barrel, but certainly a gas tube

Here is stage 1 from the IDPA match yesturday. (Sidebar for clarity, I consider a hammer 2 shots, 1 sight picture and a double tap individual aimed shots.) You can see the difference in a double tap for the targets at distance and a hammer for the closer targets or targets that have a less than 1 second exposure. I had no misses on this stage. The value here is knowing what distance you can do which at. I am shooting a full size .45 1911.

Cub, I understand what you are saying but see it actually in the exact opposite way. Ill save my accurate shots for my follow up shots(unless we are talking a considerable distance but that scenario is unlikely). I want the fastest hit on the BG as possible for my first shot to start my chain of advantage. If the BG is hit, even non vital, he is less effective than before. I value speed over accracy for the first shot because the BG could get lucky if he is faster and catch me right in the brain bucket with that first shot. To quote a sig line of another, "If your in a fair fight, your tactics suck!"

Just dont go to far back Axe!

Old School, I would need to know what you are calling a sight picture. Do you mean an aimed shot or a flash picture of the front sight? Babaganoosh, depends on the street urchin. There was a study done on why the perps were consistantly outshooting officers and getting much much higher hit ratios the the LEO's they were in shootouts with. The theory was that the perps were gang related and all much more indoctrinated to shootouts and were able to perform better as a result. Now if the urchins were of the thug variety, I would be inclined to agree with you. The problem is you just never know what skill level lurks in the hands of the other guy . So the short answer is be as prepared as you can but hope for a little luck

I know I didnt articulate this but my thoughts were more along the lines of loaction independant, all players at the table know its go time. I know this is simplistic and ignores legions of other factors. Its only meant to par down the discussion to how you would actually engage the targets, 2 on 1 and next or 1 per and scan for which one remains a threat, or one per and back to the begining for another strafing run edited to add: My concern is that the constant repitition of matches that feed you a steady diet of 2 per may in fact cause an issue for you in making a dynamic decision. However, if 2 per is truly the best way, then the point becomes moot.

I remember that article and believe it to have merit!

All scenarios have a dynamic element. All will require split second analysis. Its a high demand for sure. Which is the very reason I opened this discusion. What you do in training is what you will do during an adrenaline dump engagement. Which is why I have some concern about the repetition of 2 or 3 shots per target. A couple responses to some coments. Indeed I do not constrain these thoughts to self defence. In my eyes a combative situation has little difference so these discussions can certainly incude the battlefield in the context of a cqb engagement understanding that in military context there will likely be some noteworthy differences. I suspect the screw driver guy will run once I shoot his buddy In that given scenario I would personally engage the shooter first. I see the shooter as the greater threat. The only thing that would change that is if the screwdriver guy charged. vj, I think this is dated thinking. The rise of the suburban gangs(and even wannabe gangs) and a very sharp increase in incidents were the victim has complied and is still assaulted or killed has LE sure that many of these incidents are an "initiation". It has been my own personal experience having been in a few scraps that the group is the greater threat due to things like bravado, one upmanship and mob mentality. Situational awareness and threat level anaylysis, always essential! Great discussion so far

I dont mean to pick on IDPA specifically. I have had this conversation with trainers from various shoot schools as well. There are some varying schools of thought on this for sure.

I am not trying to pick on any discipline or type of competition. I am merely opening the the topic for some discussion and ideas. Here are my thoughts. Although its nice to think we are all the Sundance Kid or Doc Holiday, I have some real concerns that you would be able to engage multiple armed targets with anything more than a single shot. I shoot IDPA mostly. Although I enjoy the competition aspect of it, my real motivation is to use it as a bit of training/practice. However, I notice MANY stages are 2 or 3 shots per target. Well... I have done some observations on human reaction times. Its my belief that you would be VERY hard pressed to get 1 shot on multiple targets let alone 2 or 3! I may not be the most accurate shot in the room but I do believe Im pretty quick. I do not believe I could get 2 or 3 shots on 2 targets before the third guy puts one in my brain bucket! So if I was faced with a multiple armed threat of 2 or 3 bad guys, I believe I would engage a single shot on each target and then re-engage. If they both have a shot in them then at least I hope it will negatively impact their ability to return fire. I am speaking of a mutually aware scenario. If I had the element of suprise, I might go for multiple shots on 2 bad guys but not 3.