siderman

I think at some point, not sure who when or how ths NJSP was asked to help fine tune the firearms laws and "offer"suggestions as they got introduced because they would know best....and has morphed into what they can now apparently do which is basically bypass the legislative process and re-write them. Absolute corruption of the supposed legislative process but standard sop in NJ .

Please Submit Your Comments Opposing Proposed Regulations by February 13! THE FOLLOWING ANALYSIS WAS PREPARED EXCLUSIVELY FOR ANJRPC MEMBERS BY GUN RIGHTS ATTORNEY EVAN NAPPEN: The New Jersey State Police have put forward administrative rule proposals (PRN 2014-220) that would dramatically affect New Jersey gun laws. These proposals, if enacted, would become part of the New Jersey Administrative Code and would be enforced as law in New Jersey. The proposals contain a number of serious problems which are summarized as follows: 1) An attempt by the State Police to subvert current New Jersey law that prevents towns and cities from creating their own inconsistent gun license forms. This is a direct attack on ANJRPC's Permitting StrikeForce program, and an attempt to prevent ANJRPC from enforcing state law against towns that are in violation of the law, by trying to give municipalities more authority than they have under state law. The New Jersey Courts have affirmed, in two cases (In re Jeremy Perez, A-0498-12T2 (App. Div 2014) and In re Michael McGovern, A-1282-12T4 (App. Div. 2014)), state statute that says it is not permissible for towns to invent their own forms and requirements in the permitting process. Despite the New Jersey statute prohibiting it, and the Courts' rulings, the New Jersey State Police have proposed a rule that would open the door to allow "issuing agencies" to request additional information beyond what state law currently specifies and make the application process even more lengthy and onerous than it already is. 2) An attempt by the State Police to create de facto rifle and shotgun registration. Registration of rifles and shotguns in New Jersey is voluntary. The State Police want retired dealers to be forced to keep their rifle and shotgun records (certificates of eligibility) FOREVER - the equivalent of a registry. The State Police have admitted that they want this because New Jersey does not require rifles and shotguns to be registered. In addition to it being unreasonable for any person to have to keep any record forever, creating a gun registry when the law specifically does not create one is contrary to New Jersey gun laws. 3) The Rules Proposal is defective because it fails to contain a legally required "Federal Standards Statement" indicating how and why the proposal is stricter than Federal law. The State Police claim that the Federal Standards Statement is not required because none of the proposed rules "implement, comply with, or participate in any program established under federal law." This is not true, as the rules proposed deal squarely with the State Police operating as a point of contact for NICS (National Instant Criminal Background Check System) for all firearms purchases. They do this without any state law authorizing them to do so and furthermore, the New Jersey system exceeds federal law (among other things, the federal NICS system and approval call-in line are open substantially longer and on more days than the New Jersey state NICS system and approval call-in line). New Jersey taxpayers and purchasers pay for New Jersey to run the NICS line when the federal gun line is available at no charge and for more hours in most other jurisdictions. At a very minimum, if the New Jersey NICS line is closed, dealers should automatically be allowed to use the federal NICS line so that sales can occur. The State Police claim that none of their proposals impact federal law is flat-out false and is a serious defect in the rules proposal. 4) The Rules Proposal also attempts to legitimize the state police's longtime unauthorized practice of combining New Jersey's permit to purchase a handgun and the "form of register" onto a single form. It is a little known fact that New Jersey law actually mandates two separate forms, and they are distinct from each other as specified under the law: The form of register is supposed to be in triplicate. Permits to purchase handguns are supposed to be in quadruplicate. The form of register is supposed to go to just the dealer. The permit to purchase handguns is supposed to be issued just to the "applicant," not the licensed dealer. not on the permit. Under N.J.S. 2C 58-3a one must only "secure" a permit to purchase a handgun (there is no signing requirement for the permit). The form of register allows for the forms to go to the "Office of the Captain of the Precinct" (and in the alternative, if there is no Chief of Police, a duplicate copy is sent to the "Clerk of the County" (See N.J.S. 2C 58-2e)). In contrast, the copies of the permit to purchase a handgun may only go to the Superintendent or Chief of Police of the Municipality. They cannot go to the Captain of the Precinct, nor are they allowed to be filed with the Clerk of the County. Despite this clear language of longstanding state law requiring two separate and distinct forms and with different rules for each, the State Police have long ignored the law and unilaterally combined the two forms into the single form that most gun owners are familiar with today. The current rules proposal by the State Police are an attempt to retroactively legitimize this unauthorized practice that has gone on for decades. But an administrative regulation like the one proposed cannot conflict with clear state law to the contrary. 5) The rules propose to readopt regulations related to a statutory prohibition on owning firearms by those who have had firearms seized pursuant to allegations of domestic violence, who have not later had those firearms returned even after being cleared of domestic violence. This little-known disqualifier has been on the books for over ten years, yet the State Police have failed to plainly state it on any gun license application or form - thereby setting a hidden trap for innocent individuals who unwittingly agree to have seized guns sold by a dealer or otherwise not returned to them, even though they have been cleared of charges. When they later seek to possess or purchase firearms, they then become subject to criminal prosecution as a "prohibited person" in possession of firearms, merely because they elected not to take back possession of their wrongly seized guns (and for no other reason). Though the state police do not have the authority to eliminate this disqualifier, they do have discretion to articulate it on the New Jersey application and forms so that the public will be educated about this "surprise" disqualifier-trap. 6) The proposal attempts to invalidate firearm purchaser ID cards for change of address, name or sex, making the card void after 30 days if such a change occurs. Currently the validity of the card is not revoked for such changes in information, as long as the individual applies for a new card within the 30 days. New Jersey is notorious for slow processing of firearm ID card applications, and many towns simply ignore the 30-day requirement and take many, many months before issuing even replacement ID cards. The card needs to remain valid until the new card is issued. Otherwise, individuals could find themselves in criminal trouble even for mere transport of their legally owned rifles and shotguns, among other things. 7) The State Police want to force the application for an extension of a permit to purchase a handgun to be made within the initial 90 day life of the permit, or else be denied. Currently, a permit to purchase a handgun can be extended to 180 days regardless of whether an individual applies for the extension during or after the initial 90 day life of the permit, so long as the total time does not exceed 180 days. 8) The State Police are attempting to impose unreasonable burdens on New Jersey firearms dealers, demonstrating a profound lack of insight and understanding of dealer operations: They proposed barring dealer employees from accessing any firearms, firearms records, and from making firearms transfers. This is absurd, because dealers depend on their employees to do all these things on a regular basis in order for their business to function. They proposed forcing firearms dealers to complete all record-keeping on the same business day, eliminating the current 24 hour time frame to complete recordkeeping. They proposed forcing dealers to keep all firearms at the licensed premises unless "expressly permitted by the law." The express permissions in the law are stingy and poorly thought-out, and will seriously interfere with the routine operations of many dealers. They proposed forcing gun dealers and gunsmiths to affix tags or labels to firearms with duplicative and unnecessary information, which (among other things) could pose a danger to gunsmiths working on these firearms, as they could get stuck or caught in tools or machinery or otherwise interfere with gunsmithing. SUBMIT YOUR COMMENTS TO THE STATE POLICE ASAP Please submit your opposition to these rules by EMAIL, by February 13th 2015, [email protected] OR by mail, to: Colonel Joseph R. Fuentes, Superintendent Attn: Firearms Investigation Unit New Jersey State Police P.O. Box 7068 West Trenton, N.J. 08638 The following is a suggested comment that you can submit along with any additional comments you may wish to add (please note that the State Police will ignore comments on issues that do not specifically relate to their proposed new regulations): Dear Colonel Fuentes, Superintendent, Please accept the following comments as to the Rule Proposal Number PRN 2014-220: 1) I oppose the rules proposal to allow cities and towns to request unauthorized information from firearms permit applicants and to create their own gun license forms. This is clearly prohibited by New Jersey state law, N.J.S. 2C:58-3(f), and recent caselaw, In re Jeremy Perez, A-0498-12T2 (App. Div 2014) and In re Michael McGovern, A-1282-12T4 (App. Div. 2014), and would undermine private legal efforts currently under way to force municipalities to follow state law. Such a regulation would contradict state law, and would legitimize a patchwork of inconsistent permitting practices throughout the state, which is against public policy and express legislative intent. 2) I oppose forcing retired dealers to keep their rifle and shotgun records forever, thereby creating a de facto unauthorized long gun registry. State law does not authorize the creation of a long gun registry, and it may not be created by any kind of administrative regulation. 3) A "federal standards statement" should have been included in the rules promulgation, because New Jersey participates as a state point of contact in the federal NICS program, and operates that program more restrictively in New Jersey than it is operated by the federal government. New Jersey operates the system and call-in line on fewer days, and for fewer hours, than does the federal government, and charges a fee to purchasers unlike the federal government. A federal standards statement is required, and I am requesting that you provide one. 4) I oppose the attempt to retroactively legitimize the decades-old, unauthorized practice of combining the Permit to Purchase a handgun and the Form of Register into a single form -- these are supposed to be separate forms according to state law, and an administrative regulation cannot contradict state law, nor can it retroactively legitimize a practice that has been in conflict with state law for many decades. 5) I urge that you mandate that the prohibition against owning firearms by persons who have had firearms seized and not returned be conspicuously placed into every gun application and form, so that the public is adequately notified of this prohibition. For over a decade, those wrongly accused of domestic violence who later decline to have their seized firearms returned do not realize that the failure to take back their firearms triggers a provision of law making them "prohibited persons" ineligible to possess firearms. This has also resulted in such persons being later prosecuted when they later attempt to purchase or possess new firearms. The state police should do its part to make sure that firearms owners are aware that when they decline to have wrongly seized firearms returned, it has the effect of prohibiting them from future firearms ownership. It would be an easy matter for the state police to include this in the list of disqualifiers on its gun applications and forms, which would help notify the public of this ill-conceived legal trap. 6) I oppose invalidating firearms ID cards after 30 days where there has only been a change of name, address, or sex. Replacement ID cards are frequently not issued within 30 days, and can often take many, many months to issue. In the absence of other disqualifying factors, the old ID card should only become invalid upon actual issuance of the replacement card. The mere fact that a person changes their name, address, or sex does not mean that the state can or should suspend their Second Amendment rights until local authorities get around to issuing a replacement identification card, regardless of how long that takes. The proposed regulation needs to take into account the limitations, practices, and realities of the permitting process - and not be based blindly on a supposed 30-day period that is far too often not realized in practice. 7) I oppose the proposed regulation that would force all requests to extend handgun purchase permits to be made within the initial 90-day life of the permit, or else be denied. Current law allows extension of up to 180 days, regardless of when the application for extension is made. Many municipalities take six months or longer to issue permits. A permit holder should not be forced to repeat that process merely because he or she did not request an extension during the initial 90-day period. As long as the permit can never be extended beyond a life of 180 days, the date the extension was applied for should be irrelevant. Additionally, since a federal criminal background check is performed at the time the permit is used, any concerns that a permit holder might have become a prohibited person (necessitating a new investigation) at some point within the 180 day period have already been addressed. 8) I oppose adding unreasonable burdens to New Jersey gun dealers, including barring employees from handling guns and gun records, forcing dealers to record firearm acquisitions the same business day (instead of retaining the current reasonable 24 hour time frame), and forcing dealers to keep all guns at the licensed premises unless they have "express permission" to do otherwise. And finally, requiring labels or tags on every firearm containing unnecessary information and presenting a potential danger to gunsmiths working on firearms. Regulations affecting the core operations of firearms dealers should be crafted with insight and understanding of those operations rather than in a vacuum, so that the intended benefits of those regulations can be achieved without imposing unreasonable and disruptive burdens and requirements. Sincerely, ________________________

never mind, answered my own dumb question. didnt realize it wasnt about any dif features but all about the date and its implication with reg/transfer....just more stupid ban shit...

whats a pre ban lower?

4+ hrs driving time per visit?! well if its what you want good luck. sounds like its worth the $ once your there.

Thanx HE.

wow, been a while watching that show.. can someone help me remember where I left of/ I think the last show i saw was with the little girl cashing in the magic coin for a boat ride? was that a season finale?

Vero Beach checking in- no sign of any snow yet....

and I'm scheduled to drive up from FL Monday morn......maybe we'll stay a few more days, darn it

This is it. The laws are already written and will be back. WE'VE ALREADY SEEN THEM. There is no 2A knight in shining armour waving the Gadsden flag making a career in NJ.

glad to see among the panel of expert speakers invited are constitutional lawyers and 2A professors. ha! yea right....this seminar should be titled " How not to let a good tradgedy go to waste 101"

in Vero Beach now, opted to drive straight thru as the drive was going clean 18 hrs, not bad at all!

I'd like to add the apparent 'out" that issuing agencies will use to legalize the extra paperwork/ requirements needed in the FPID/PP app process. Discussed briefly in this thread post, #10 http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/74401-anjrpc-strikeforce-update/

Awesome gesture Howell Gun Works, hope all goes well for everybody.

Getting out of this state is turning into more of a jailbreak rather than just moving.

Progress!!! its somethin...any info on fees, outdated pp's etc?

i had one too (8shot), was fun for a bit but, yes got boring. Gave it to my wife for xmas lol- she loves it. perfect gun to get her into (sort of) shooting and she likes it so win win.

aww, poor fellow prob took some bad meds.

Im in for the free firearm insurence lol. now get ready for the weekly renewal mailings aka kindling.

The Records bias on guns and other topics is why we cancelled it over a yr ago, should have done it sooner but they had a good sports section...and would like to point out this article itself is biased against Brgn county painting it as a bastion of anti-land run by Loretta Wienbitch. not so, she is from district 37 which only has 12 towns vs all of Brgn cnty's about 70.I'm not saying Brgn is all out pro 2A but just going by party affiliation which is a good barometer of typicall gun rights issues its 50/50 (not too proud of that ...). My district 40 is all Republican reps, Congresman, Senetor, and Assemblyman so I'm doing my part

http://www.anjrpc.org/ is our official state NRA org for what its worth. mostly reactionary imo about most causes/laws but thats another story.

If you haven't already you should poke around the Beretta Forum to see what anyone may have to say http://berettaforum.net/vb/

+1 the Sport is the perfect KISS ar15- if thats what you're looking for. I threw a few things on mine over a few yrs but by no means is it needed just for plinking.

like they said-Sport. I'll say the obvious, its the NJ compliant model and model# ends... 037 No forward assist or eject port cover but when your gun goes from the house to your car to the shooting bench who cares lol.

getting your FPID card and getting pistol permits typically require the same process each time you apply. Only dif is the FPID is a one time application (for now) unless you change your address vs repeating the process for new permits. Getting the permits extended is not a given, it is up to the cleo to say yes or no and varies by town, also its not unusual- in fact its common- for some towns to take months to issue new permits.