TheWombat

Will be at RTSP with MrsWombat on Sunday. Probably we will arrive early and not hang around this weekend, however if anyone is planning to be there then please add to this thread. TheWombat

If a State allows concealed carry as well as open carry then I personally struggle with why people would open carry assuming that there is nothing preventing them from obtaining the necessary concealed permit (if required). I would rather legally carry a firearm concealed where it provides some element of surprise, rather than legally carry open and have all around me being aware I am carrying. Carrying open in my view would just make me more of a potential first target in a scenario, It could also increase the chance that civilians (and others) around me start screaming/shouting at me to draw the weapon and defend them in a situation where drawing at that point in time is not appropriate or recommended. It could also increase the chance of someone trying to make a grab for the firearm and even if they are not successful due to the use of a retention holster and being aware of my surroundings it is still not a situation I would like to be in. If carrying concealed then I believe it gives me a greater opportunity to choose if and when I draw my firearm. Assuming that my judgement is not flawed and I am aware of the situation around me then this increases the chance that I will either be able to defend myself/others or stop the threat. If I was in a State/situation that allows open carry but not concealed carry then it may be a different decision as to whether to carry open, or not carry. Just my personal view. TheWombat

I have DA/SA Metal (Sig P226), Striker Plastic (Walther PPQ) and SA Metal (Ed Brown 1911). I went this way for my initial firearms so I could practice and use the variations. My actual preference for a 'pick up and use' firearm is the Striker Plastic, however all three trigger/frame styles work well (and have pros and cons). As others have mentioned, I'd recommend going to a range and renting a variety of firearms. I would not worry so much as to whether they are DA/SA, Striker etc as you'll get many different personal perspectives, some or none of which may be relevant to you as everyone is different. Instead see which one 'feels right' and you are sufficiently accurate with. The chances are that over time you will end up purchasing more than one style as your inventory grows and changes. Personally I found that for me the Beretta did not 'feel right' for me even though I shot it quite accurately. I actually found I preferred the Springfield Armory XD/XDM series which ended up taking me along the journey to the Walther PPQ. Also what is the purpose of the firearm and what is your environment. Consider some of the following questions: Do you plan to use the firearm for competitions? Do you plan to use the firearm for plinking at the range (and at what distance)? Do you plan to use the firearm for Home Defense? Do you plan to use the firearm for CCW out of state? Do you have children in the house (this may or may not affect your choice depending on personal views on safeties etc)? Do you have a partner/family members that you are looking to introduce to firearms? What is your budget (for firearm + accessories e.g. holsters, magazines, lights/lasers, after market sights etc)? Do you want a .22 conversion kit for the firearm? While we may not be able to carry in NJ yet, many of us have Utah/Florida CCWs and carry out of state. hth TheWombat

From the training courses I have been on, every student that has brought a 1911 has had issues (including MrsWombat with her fairly expensive Kimber). Predominantly the issues have been due to the magazines, (but not always). I wouldn't however say that means 1911s suck and Glocks are cool. A browse of 1911 forums does seem to indicate a greater percentage of 1911 owners send their 1911s either back to the manufacturers or to gun smiths for 'tuning' which can be several hundred+ dollars (if not more). I don't see this as the case for Glocks (aside from some of the recent Gen 3/4 issues). Given the choice, I would choose a Glock for HD/CCW over a 1911, however this is in part due to: extra capacity magazines no external safety - as I don't currently train sufficiently to ensure I operate this correctly If you are looking to depend on a 1911 for SD/HD, then I believe it needs a greater level of training/practice than a Glock to ensure that you remember to engage/disengage the safety under stress, and that you have even greater trigger awareness/discipline due to the (usually) lighter triggers. I will however be taking my Ed Brown 1911 to a GFH course to see how well it copes compared to the PPQ . Then again considering the price difference is this even a relevant comparison? Just my personal view... TheWombat

I have an Ed Brown.... Brief review = buy one! re: Wilson Combat. If you really have the money to burn then you'll like them. However have to question whether it really makes sense to spend that amount. What reason are you getting one: to sit in a safe? to carry? for home defense? for fun at the range? or because you just want one? Personally, I find I shoot the PPQ much more often, I carry the PPQ and I have it for home defense. While I have a Milt Sparks holster for the Ed Brown I've not carried the Ed Brown anywhere near as much as I thought I would. :-) TheWombat

It is also fairly straightforward and cheap(ish) to convert a DA/SA HK (USP, 45, P30) to LEM. There are also different LEM variants which have different trigger pull weights. TheWombat.

These are good points. My personal view point is you need to take a conscious and ongoing effort to embed training if you are looking to really benefit from the training in an emergency. If someone covered some basic pieing techniques and/or moving when shooting a number of years ago and nothing since (whether formal training or informal practice at home) then the chances are that in the heat of the moment they would not recollect the training due to adrenaline/fright/stress etc. I base this viewpoint on general human psychology and from observations from recent Simunitions courses. Hence my belief that if someone is serious about wanting to be able to protect themselves effectively with a firearm then it becomes necessary to undertake training and to continue to embed the learning. This could be through practicing clearing your own home at night using a empty/training firearm and a flashlight etc. For someone who doesn't necessarily enjoy firearms, then I'd go as far to say that maybe the answer is to save their money and not take training other than the basic introduction such as NRA Basic Pistol. These people may be lucky and be able to point and pull the trigger at the right moment if they are in their home, however what if they need to clear the home (e.g. because they have family members also in the house) or are CCWing and are caught in an active shooter situation? The above however is just my personal view. I actually would encourage everyone to try Simunitions at least once. It's a tricky subject that I don't think there is a single correct answer for. TheWombat

Shoreshot I believe have those, although best to call in advance and confirm. TheWombat

I've just received an email response from Asm D.O. Peterson asking "Would you please provide us with your full mailing address? Thank you." in response to the email I sent below regarding A588 and A1013 on the 28th January. While it's good to see a response, has anyone else received one and any thoughts on the reason for asking for the mailing address? thanks TheWombat Original email to Asm D.O. Peterson From: [TheWombat] Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 6:36 PM To: Peterson, Asm. D.O. Subject: A588 and A1013 As a law abiding member of public within New Jersey I strongly urge you to OPPOSE A588 and A1013 that is due to be heard in Trenton on Monday at 2pm. Of particular concern is A588 which would look to ban armor piercing ammunition which is already prohibited under federal and state law. Trying to add further legislation, such as A588, is a waste of tax payer’s money and would provide the opportunity for significant abuse by the current or future Attorney Generals. I am extremely concerned at the underhand and secretive nature in which the assembly is attempting to introduce these bills. These bills are a direct threat to the ability for my wife and I to protect ourselves and our families and any elected officials that votes for these bills will lose my support in any and all future elections. I urge you to do the right thing and OPPOSE A588 and A1013 Thank you [TheWombat]

While I know a number of people have used this as a 'good example' there are a few issues: 1. English law permits one person to kill another in self defence only if the person defending him or herself uses no more than "reasonable force" 2. Martin shot towards the intruders (who were by then trying to flee through a window) - this would be an issue even in many places in the UK The Jury found him originally guilty by 10:2, what we don't know is how good/experienced was his lawyer, were there expert witnesses etc. There are enough cases of assumed 'justified shooting' in the US with the victim going to prison due to not having the right lawyer/witnesses or saying something unfortunate. Tony Martin's story though seems to be seen as a good example to quite in the US for the pro-gun people. note: I am NOT saying that Tony Martin was right/wrong, or that he should/shouldn't have gone to prison. I am only suggesting that in the US we need to consider the examples we quote to ensure it is appropriate to the point we are trying to make. TheWombat

Why would you fire a warning shot in the ceiling?? My understanding, and appreciate that there will be multiple different views, is that warning shots are not recommended and could cause you problems. This was also given to me by a LEO recently on a simunition course. TheWombat

Ok, seriously get a PPQ (or a revolver). Not even worth debating! :-) TheWombat

A Glock 21 or Glock 36 are the only choices as it must be a real mans caliber!!! Which you go for depends if you are looking to carry or not. Once you've succumbed to the Glock spell you'll never use any of your non Glock Firearms again. TheWombat

No Glocks in your list, everyone has to have had at least one Glock.... TheWombat

Agreed, I've been wearing the PPQ around the home now for a couple of months and I'm much more comfortable now. TheWombat

You can get the Florida CCW having completed the NRA Basic Pistol etc, the requirements are pretty low. Best recommendation is to ask other forum members on who they recommend. You'll get a mix of responses. I personally like Gun For Hire and they are also conveniently located close to me. There are plenty of other good training providers though including MDTS, GAPP and ShootNJ which are all local to NJ. Take a look at http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/32250-training-considerations/ hth TheWombat

While there are different views by Forum Members regarding training, whether it should be mandated, the value of it etc I thought I'd post some suggestions for new shooters based on my thoughts and experiences to date with regards training. Just for clarity, while I have covered it in other posts, my personal view is that while the right to bear arms is a 2A right, with that right comes personal responsibility. Whether you plan to just shoot at a range, use a firearm for home defense, or conceal carry then I personally believe some level of training should be necessary. I'd also say the level of training increases as you move from "shooting at a range" to "home defense" to "conceal carry". The purpose of this thread however is not to cover whether training should be mandatory/recommended/voluntary - however it is only right that I am transparent about this personal view. Everything below is purely my personal view including how I have categorized between Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced. Beginner If you haven't bought a firearm yet, or have just bought one then I'd recommend taking the NRA Basic Pistol. It is also a useful way to spend the time while you wait for your Firearms Purchaser ID card to be processed! This is a full day theory & practical shooting class with a simple multiple choice test. This class provides a good overview of: Basic firearm safety Safe firearm storage Introduction to pistol mechanics (i.e. the different types of firearms [revolver & semi-automatic], the parts of a firearm, the types of pistol action [double action, single action etc] Revolver parts and operation Semi-automatic pistol parts and operation Operating double and single action revolvers Operating double and single action semi-automatic pistols Ammunition fundamentals Building pistol shooting skills Fundamentals of pistol shooting (eye dominance, grip, aiming, breath control, trigger control) Fundamentals of pistol shooting positions (e.g. weaver, isosceles etc) Common pistol shooting errors Clearing common stoppages Pistol maintenance & cleaning Considerations on selection pistols, ammunition and accessories Overview of key local firearm legislation You'll receive the NRA Guide to the Basics of Pistol Shooting book, a certificate and the results of your live fire. The actual pistols and revolvers that you use will vary depending on where you take the class however typically you'll be able to try a variety of manufacturer and models. If there is a specific model you want to try then I'd recommend calling the training provider ahead of time to see if they have it, or if they can provide it. Typical cost varies between $150 to $200 per student. The certificate you gain can be used as firearms proficiency proof for your Florida CCW permit that is valid in 30+ states. There are a number of providers who cover this course so you should be able to find one near you. Try to do a little research to find feedback on others who have undertaken the class and see what range they use for the live fire. I personally had a less than positive experience as the trainer used a very claustrophobic shooting range. If there is a range you are thinking of joining then see if they provide the NRA Basic Pistol as this is a good way to find out what the range is like. Following the NRA Basic Pistol, assuming that common sense and the basic fundamentals are applied, you are good to go to a range and shoot safely and gain more experience! Welcome to the world of firearms! There is no specific set of criteria required to move from Beginner to Intermediate. If you feel comfortable with being able to use your firearm in a safe way then talk to the training providers and see what they recommend in terms of being ready to move onwards. Intermediate Level The Intermediate level is typically for someone who may have been shooting for a few months to a few years, and is looking at getting more proficient with how to use a firearm in scenarios which are more than just shooting paper while standing still at a range. Typical topics covered could include: Greater proficiency with use of a holster Greater proficiency with use of a reloading your firearm (e.g. tactical reloads, one handed reloads etc) Moving while shooting Pieing out a room/corridor/stairs with a firearm Shooting around cover Cover v Concealment Low Light/No Light shooting (using a flashlight and/or weapon mounted light) Improved techniques based on instructor feedback Defensive shooting techniques Point Shooting Clearing malfunctions & jams One handed shooting (weak & strong hand) Shoot/Don't Shoot scenarios & training These classes may also include noise and other environmental stimulus to increase stress levels to help you gain some understanding on how you might react in a real situation and also whether you need to make any adjustments to your equipment, technique etc. Examples of courses covering this would be Urban Pistol 1 & 2, or Intermediate Pistol or similar names. You'll gain a much greater awareness of techniques/tactics for moving through houses and other environments and how to maximize the environment to your advantage such as how best to use cover etc. Once again there is no specific criteria for moving from Intermediate to Advanced, and some people may take some Advanced training prior to Intermediate etc. It really depends on your comfort level and your priorities. Advanced The Advanced Shooter is someone who has a level of understanding of techniques such as pieing, use of cover, one handed/two handed shooting, and is looking to get training that provides as realistic as possible scenarios while still within a safe training environment. Topics covered would build upon the Intermediate topics taking them up a notch in terms of more advanced tactics, working in pairs (e.g. with your partner) or small groups. In addition this is where I believe training such as Simunitions and FATS comes in. Simunitions uses real firearms e.g. Glock 17, 1911, revolver which have been modified to fire a 9mm or other caliber projectile that is filled with a detergent-based, water-soluble colored marking compound. The firearms have recoil, eject brass and are very realistic. The projectiles also leave a nice bruise/mark. In some ways it is similar to paintball except the projectiles are much more similar to real rounds. Think of it as the standard pistol cartridge, which instead of having a lead bullet on the end has a small color marking compound. The idea is to take the techniques/tactics you've learnt from the prior training and see how well you've embedded them when you have one or more people firing at you. Scenarios can include innocent civilians as well as the 'bad people' which provides quick decision making on whether to shoot/don't shoot. People who have a lot of experience at airsoft or paintball may be better prepared for Simunitions training force-on-force however it is still a great training aid. I personally recommend trying Simunitions for anyone who is serious about being prepared for a home defense or personal defense (e.g. CCW) situation. It provides a significant amount of self-awareness and learning that cannot be gained by standing at a range and shooting 1 inch groups on paper targets at 7. 10, 15, 25 yards etc. Competition Shooting There are various options here such as IDPA, Steel, IPSC. While I have not started competing (yet) many on the forum compete. The benefit of these competitions includes gaining experience/familiarity with moving, using cover, trigger control, overall familiarity with firearms, dealing with malfunctions, reloading etc. The fact that it is a timed competition typically increases the perceived pressure and helps as part of the training regime. I'll leave others to comment more on this, however it is also a fun and social way to stay with the hobby. Training Providers There are a few options to consider when selecting a training provider. The cost, the feedback from other students, the experience of the instructors (are they LEO, SWAT, Military, Special Forces etc who have seen real 'action'), safety record, location/travel implications, training/range facilities, student to instructor ratio etc. Many training providers will have classes of increasing 'difficulty' e.g. Intermediate Pistol 1, 2, 3. In order to attend the higher numbered ones you typically need to have attended the previous ones. This could be seen as a way to gain extra revenue but also helps ensure that the students have met a basic minimum level for each class. This helps as you probably don't want to be in a class covering more advanced techniques to then find one of the students has never drawn from a holster and hence slows the class down or poses a safety concern. You may also be able to obtain a discount by booking multiple classes in one go. I personally would split the training into a couple of categories: Local Trainers which includes: Gun For Hire ShootNJ Green Academy of Personal Protection MDTS training etc [*]Multi day training specialists which includes Trident Concepts EAG Tactical US Training Center ITTS (Burbank CA) Larry Vickers Viking Tactics Blackwater/Academi training etc The above list is far from complete, and there are plenty of other good training providers. Use Google and also ask on forums and you'll quickly find many recommendations. Alternative & Additional Training approaches YouTube can be useful (depending on what you are watching) for some basic techniques. I personally found the Ruger Beginner Shooting Tips useful when I was just starting out. While these are on YouTube you can also watch them here: http://www.ruger.com...ces/videos.html along with other videos. Books can be great if you are someone who can learn this way. There are many good authors and books including: Perfect Practice - Saul Kirsch Practical Shooting Beyond Fundamentals - Brian Enos Practical Shooting Manual - Matt Burkett Refinement & Repetition - Steve Anderson Principles of Performance - Steve Anderson In the Gravest Extreme - Massad Ayoob etc There are many more good books out there, look on the forums and on Amazon etc and you'll find plenty of options to choose from with feedback reviews from many people to help in selecting. DVDs/TV Shows are also another good option, depending on what Cable/Satellite provider you have you may already have access to these. Airsoft can also be a useful training tool. Most modern semi-automatics have very realistic Airsoft equivalents available that you can use in your home to practice trigger control, drawing and other techniques. It provides a complement to dry-firing which some may find monotonous. It can also be a way to introduce firearms to your children, partner, family and/or friends. Good Airsoft replica pistols typically cost between $100 to $160 and ammunition is cheap enough to be almost free. The Airsoft pistol can use your standard holster, laser/lights etc. In closing I hope this thread provides some useful insight as others add their own experiences. I have posted specific training reviews of many of the courses I have attended and you can also see them listed in my signature. Out of all the training I have been on the Simunitions is the one I rate the highest in terms of real eye-opening experience gained. In addition the Urban Pistol 1/2 provided the opportunity to learn some good techniques/tactics that can't be easily taught at a standard shooting range and provided the basis for moving onto Simunitions. The recent Low Light/No Light course I attended was the first opportunity I've had to try the darker environment and that presents some interesting challenges/experiences as well. You'll see the majority of my training is with Gun For Hire, that is due to their training facilities being less than a 20 minute journey for me, due to the general high quality of the instructors and also the facilities of the Essex County Police Academy range they use and the Simunitions office building. Please feel free to join in the thread and add some additional suggestions/recommendations. TheWombat

nice post and good to see that it went well. TheWombat

I've now also acquired the Viridian X5L Gen 2 in addition to the Viridian C5L I have previously posted in this thread. Once again I will update photos with better quality ones when I have the chance to. TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS BEAM INTENSITY/WAVELENGTH: 5mW peak, 532nm, Class IIIa, Continuous wave LASER BEAM DIVERGENCE/SPOT SIZE/RANGE: 1.2 mrad, approx. 0.5" at 50 feet. Up to 100 yards daylight, 2 miles at night DIMENSIONS/WEIGHT/CONSTRUCTION: 2.84"L x 1.37"H x 1.45" W, 3.3 oz. (including battery), primarily 6061 Aircraft Grade Aluminum, front and rear covers in high strength Zytel® polymer USER ADJUSTABLE: Easy to use windage and elevation adjustments on laser POWER SOURCE/BATTERY LIFE: 6+ hours of constant laser runtime, 10+ hours of pulsing laser runtime, 60 minutes of laser and light runtime. Unit runs on one CR123A 3v lithium (included). TACTICAL LIGHT OUTPUT: 154 lumens on continuous, 187 lumens on strobe mode ACTIVATION AND MODES: Ambidextrous activation and infinite amount of custom operating modes (user can customize laser pulse rate, tactical light strobe rate and light output). UNIVERSAL MOUNTING SYSTEM: Modular rail set included with unit allows quick mounting to virtually all railed handguns and rifles The X5L Gen 2 supports the same 6 modes that the C5L does and cycles through them in the same order: Laser On & Light Off Laser On & Light On Laser On & Light Strobe Laser Pulse & Light Off Laser Pulse & Light On Laser Off & Light On In addition the strobe frequency, pulse frequency and light brightness can be adjusted, and there are ambidextrous controls to support both right and left handed shooters which act as both constant and momentary on/off. FEEDBACK Build quality remains on par with the C5L i.e. good, however there is one big improvement which is the battery cap. On the C5L this is a potential weak point and requires careful use when replacing the battery. The X5L Gen 2 has a much more robust battery cap (it is actually the housing where the LED bulb fits) and is much easier to use. In addition to the Battery Cap improvement, the X5L Gen 2 is also brighter and uses the CR123A batteries often found in tactical flashlights. It is however longer in size and so depending on the firearm you are fitting it to you may prefer to use the C5L. For my PPQ I will continue to use the C5L as the light brightness is sufficient for my needs and the overall smaller size of the C5L is preferred to keep the light from protruding past the muzzle. The Kaluban Cloak holster that I ordered specifically for the PPQ/X5L Gen 2 also works fine in retaining the PPQ with no light attached AND also with the C5L attached to the PPQ. PHOTOS Here you can see the X5L protrudes past the muzzle, the housing where the LED bulb is unscrews to allow the battery to be replaced. The ambidextrous circular switch to the rear of the X5L is easy to operate using the weak hand thumb. These are both a momentary and a constant on/off switch. For these last two photos I have, purely for comparison purposes, placed the C5L on top of the X5L Gen 2 unit. This first photo shows the difference in length and the similarity in the overall design of the housing This second photo shows the difference in the battery comparment and also the significant difference in size of the LED light reflector. Both the C5L and X5L Gen 2 seem to work well. If you are looking at using a PPQ as Home Defense firearm then I can highly recommend fitting a weapon mounted light (& laser) in addition to having a standard flashlight handy. The recent Low Light/No Light firearms course I attended clearly demonstrated the benefits (and pros/cons) of a weapon mounted light. I will personally be keeping the C5L on the PPQ as it meets my requirements. TheWombat

I'd suggest some research on the P22 as there are a fair few mixed reviews, this may be just due to the ammunition being used but worth being aware of. I'm also not sure on the reason you're getting the P22, if it is for home defense, self defense then you're much better of getting a 9mm if you are concerned on the costs of the .45 ammunition. As an example you can get new 9mm Glock 17 or Glock 19, Walther PPQ, Sig P2022 for under $500 to name a few examples. These are all semi-autos as I'm not a revolver person. You can find good condition used 9mms for less. There are plenty of other options as well you can see from other threads. HTH TheWombat

Sounds like a Walther PPQ would be a good option then *grin* TheWombat

http://www.foxnews.c...florida-church/ ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. – Authorities say the daughter of a pastor was accidentally shot in the head at a church in St. Petersburg. The Pinellas County Sheriff's Office was called to the Grace Connection Church Sunday at about 12:24 p.m. Investigators say Moises Zambrana was showing his gun to another church member interested in buying a firearm. Zambrana has a concealed weapons permit and reportedly took out the gun's magazine but did not know there was a bullet in the chamber. The gun went off and fired through a wall, striking 20-year-old Hannah Kelley. She was critically injured and transported to Bayfront Medical Center. No charges have been filed. The investigation is ongoing. I am sure examples such as this will be used to either push for Magazine Disconnectors on firearms (such as in California) or for the anti-gun lobby. The sad thing is that this accident was entirely avoidable if the basic rules of firearms were followed and the firearm was treated as loaded. TheWombat

I'd look at it the other way, shooting .22LR is a great way to practice your tap & racks and how to clear malfunctions hence the re-strike capability is not an issue. I'm assuming the .22LR ammunition is just for plinking in the range and that you'd use 9mm Hollow Points for Defense. If you use CC MiniMags for the first ~200+ or so rounds on the .22 conversion you should then be ok with (at least some of) the cheaper stuff afterwards. hth TheWombat

Also look at the Viridian X5L gen 2, this is brighter than the C5L I have. I went for the C5L as the PPQ is fairly small and I didn't want the light protruding past the end of the muzzle. Maybe something like a Beretta or Baby Eagle might be an idea for the 2nd PP as they both have safeties which would help with the muscle memory for the 1911? TheWombat

I have a Sig P226 and they are nice, however the .22 conversion does NOT lock back the slide. You can put aftermarket magazine followers in the magazines that will stop the slide from going forward when empty on the .22 however this doesn't meet your requirements and would stretch your budget by the time you factor in buying extra magazines, followers etc. While I am personally not a fan of Glocks have you thought about going for a G17 (or 19) and getting the .22 conversion. I've shot them and they seemed fine, although I don't recall if the slide locked back (I think it did) this would work out MUCH cheaper for buying the firearms and subsequent extra magazines than the Sig for example. Not sure if a Glock counts as Ugly for you? TheWombat