TheWombat

Bump for RayRay TheWombat

P226 magazine can fit in the P228/P229 but will stick out the bottom a little. You can get an adaptor to cover the gap (Top Gun Supply sell it for example) http://www.topgunsupply.com/x-grip-sig_p228_p229.html P228/P229 magazines will not work in the P226 as they are not long enough. The above is for 9mm as that is what I have. Can't comment on the P224 or other calibers, although the X-Grip part does not say it is just for 9mm. hth TheWombat

You're obviously more experienced than me at cleaning hence it takes you less time . While we seem to be heading off topic if you look at the inside of the slide of the PPQ there are far less 'nooks and crannies' than on the inside of the slide of a new model P226. My P226 is currently at GrayGuns however when it returns I will take some photo comparisons. hth TheWombat

I just realized that I never posted an introduction on the forum. So here goes. Hi everyone, I arrived in the US 2 years ago through a work relocation from Sydney, Australia. I'm originally from the UK and emigrated from the UK to Australia in 2007 in order to live by the sea, enjoy the warmer weather and spend my spare time sailing which is one of my passions. While in Australia I met the now Mrs Wombat and we have now found ourselves living in Hudson County. Apart from shooting an air rifle when I was younger (and spending a few years doing Archery at high school) I hadn't considered myself as a gun owner/target shooter. A friend introduced us to Sunset Hill Shooting Range just across the border and before we knew it we were applying for our FIDs which thankfully only took 6 weeks. During the wait we undertook the NRA Basic Pistol which I highly recommend and then headed to Shoreshot to rent some pistols and decide on what to purchase. 3 months since our FIDs we now have made our first purchases, have out of state CCWs and have attended a couple of GunForHire training courses. As a newcomer to the US we've been spending our time exploring the Americas as we don't know whether we'll be here for 5 years or 20+ years. Thanks for making us feel so welcome and safe shooting. Please be patient with us if we are ignorant of some of the US culture, history and passions. I don't claim to comprehend the depth of feeling regarding the 2nd amendment as you would have noticed from my other posts however I hope that MrsWombat and I always present a open minded view. thanks TheWombat

Just to add, that the PPQ Trijicon sights do have a wider gap between front and rear sights for the sight picture than MrsWombat's Kimber 1911 with Meprolights. However I am not finding it an issue although the PPQ is not a handgun I would choose to shoot competitively at 25 yards. hth TheWombat

1. I can clean my Walther PPQ quicker than my Sig P226, and much much quicker than my wife can clean her 1911. As a new shooter I would assume I am representative of time to clean for the original poster. I haven't timed myself but I'd guess PPQ=20 minutes, P226=30 minutes, 1911=60 minutes and time spent chasing flying springs and retaining spring covers. 2. I am not comparing.. I didn't say 'more' reliable, I just said 'reliable'. Glocks, as much as I dislike them, are a reliable handgun. New people to firearms may assume that plastic and/or striker fired guns are less reliable than metal and/or hammer fired guns which is not the case. 3. I am not comparing.. I didn't say 'cheaper', I just said 'cheap'. A NIB Glock 17/19 is several hundred dollars cheaper than a Sig P226/229, you can find NIB Glocks and PPQs for the mid/high $400s on the Internet at present. I agree that some brands e.g. H&Ks have a price premium. I also agree that the Sig P2022 is also a great buy, however the original poster was discussing metal Sigs (i.e. P226s) I own a PPQ, P226 and a 1911. I very much like the P226. I would also say that the cost of ammunition over the lifetime of the firearm will be significantly more than the original cost of the firearm. I also prefer the PPQ to the P30 having tried both :-) As I've previously posted I also had CZ75s, H&KP30s, Sig P2022, Baby Eagles etc on my shortlist when I was buying. hth, either way the firearms people are suggesting are all good. My original comment in my first post still stands that I recommend the original poster try many firearms out as rentals before buying as it is very much a personal perspective as to what handguns are 'the best', 'most suitable' etc. There are some people who (shame on them) do not find Sigs as comfortable to hold/shoot as some plastic fantastic guns. hth TheWombat

Just back from a trip to Shoreshot. Phil let me shoot his Sig P210 which has a very crisp and light trigger compared to the PPQ. Thanks!!! The main purpose of the trip today was: Shoot some of the different types of ammunition I have as I bought 2 boxes each of various brands/weights/models Try some Hollow Point home defense ammo Practice some of the "dot drills" that we were shown on the Gun For Hire 2nd Step pistol course from last week In total with the PPQ today I shot 320 rounds comprising: Sellier & Bellot 115gr FMJ (V310452) Speer Gold Dot 124gr+P (23617) Brazer Brass 115gr FMJ (5200) Remington UMC 115gr FMJ (L9MM3) Winchester WhiteBox NATO 124gr (Q4318) Remington UMC 147gr (L9MM9) Remington UMC Leadless 115gr FNEB (LL9MM11) I had NO failures using the 320 rounds. I warmed up with 50 rounds of Sellier & Bellot at 7 yards I then tried the Speer Gold Dot Hollow Points. This is the first time I have ever shot Hollow Points. As these are 124gr+P there was more noticeable recoil than the Sellier & Bellot FMJs I then switched to the 'DOT drills' that MrsWombat and I tried during our 2nd Steps Pistol Gun For Hire course last weekend: All exercises were taken at distances between 6 and 8 yards. The first 100 rounds (Blazer Brass 115gr and Remington UMC 115gr) were: Pick up gun from table, shoot 1 round, move left, shoot another round in the same dot… Place gun back on table. repeat multiple times. Pick up gun from table, shoot 1 round, move right, shoot another round in the same dot… Place gun back on table. repeat multiple times. Pick up gun from table, shoot 1 round into dot 5, shoot 1 round into dot 1… Place gun back on table. repeat multiple times. Pick up gun from table, shoot 1 round into dot 1, shoot 1 round into dot 5… Place gun back on table. repeat multiple times. Same as 3) & 4) but also step either right or left. Place gun back on table. repeat multiple times. Pick up gun from table, shoot 1 round into dot 5, shoot 1 round into dot 6… Place gun back on table. repeat multiple times. Pick up gun from table, shoot 1 round into dot 6, shoot 1 round into dot 5… Place gun back on table. repeat multiple times. Pick up gun from table, shoot 1 round into dot 6, step right and shoot 2 rounds into dot 6 again. Place gun back on table. repeat multiple times. Pick up gun from table, shoot 1 round into dot 6, step left and shoot 2 rounds into dot 6 again repeat multiple times. Distance was around 6 yards To add some more interest to the exercises I ensured that my magazines had a random number of rounds from 1 to 5 in them, and if the ammo ran out part way through an exercise I had to do a reload. My extra magazines had arrived so I have 5 in total. I can also confirm that the Magnum Research MR Eagle "Fast Action" 9mm 15-Round Magazine Product Code: MAGFA915 are identical to the Walther PPQ magazines (except being half the price!) and work perfectly. I then moved to the Winchester NATO which had a lot more recoil (as it is considered similar to +P) and took more effort to control the recoil and you can see the results in dot 2. I repeated similar exercises to the above although with the distance back at around 8 yards. For the Remington 147gr ammunition I started with dot 7 but was shooting high and there was more recoil and a lot of ‘flame’ coming out the muzzle. I instead switched to shooting the head of the assailant with 5 rounds in each magazine shooting 5 shots fairly quickly. I won’t buy anymore of this specific brand/model/weight ammunition. I didn’t like shooting at the lower positioned dots (3,4,7,8), or at least my grouping wasn’t as tight. It may have been I was getting tired, it may have been the ammunition, and it may have been I was having to point the gun downwards rather than horizontal. I will try some more testing tomorrow as I have one more box of this ammunition left. For the last 50 rounds I used dots 3 and 7 and moved the distance out a little more and tried the Remington UMC Leadless 115gr FNEB. You can see my grouping is far less tight. The high shots on dot 7 are from the previous Remington 147gr ammo. Overall for this ammo there was some ‘flame’ but far less recoil than with the Remington 147gr and Winchester NATO. I however won't be buying any more of it. For the last 10 or so rounds I shot with my hands reversed. i.e. a two handed grip using my left hand on the trigger (I am right handed but left eye dominant). I was far more accurate than I had expected, however I felt very very clumsy when trying to switch magazines. Overall I remain very pleased with the Walther PPQ. Of the ammunition today the Blazer Brass 115gr seemed the easiest to shoot tight groups with, however I will continue with some more tests tomorrow. Doing these drills definitely makes the range trip more interesting! TheWombat

It is easy to fit the new style E2 grips onto a P226 and you can buy the kit for around $45 from Top Gun Supply. The E2 grips result in a noticeably thinner grip than the standard plastic grip. I would recommend you try both an Elite and non Elite to see whether you prefer the Sig Beaver Tail or not hth TheWombat

I'd echo on the comments on going somewhere where you can rent. I've been shooting for 3 months. My first handgun I bought was a Sig P226 USPSA 9mm (has the beavertail like the Elites), then a 9mm Walther PPQ (striker fired), and my last handgun is a Commander sized (4.25") 1911 in .45 caliber. While some may have different views, going striker fired for your first handgun has a number of benefits, they're easier and quicker to clean, they're more simple, they're reliable etc, and typically they are cheaper. Looking at a Walther PPQ, Glock 19 or 17, Springfield Armory XD or Smight & Wesson M&P are all good options. They are plastic (i.e. light), they are cheap, they all come in 9mm, and many of them come with interchangeable backstraps which makes it easier to find a better fit in your hand which will improve your consistency/enjoyment of shooting. Looking at DA/SA hammer action then Sig P226, P228, P229 are all good options although will cost a little more. Also consider CZ 75 as another option, and also the Baby Eagle. Once again I'd recommend in 9mm as the ammunition is much cheaper (50 rounds for $10) and you'll be able to enjoy shooting without it becoming critical to start reloading your own ammunition. The Sigs and CZ are generally metal guns (they do have plastic options) and so will be heavier, however they also come with .22 conversion kits which is a good way to improve your trigger control more cheaply. Firearms are a personal thing. My wife (MrsWombat) likes to ensure that her firearms are aesthetically pleasing. I am less concerned on looks and more concerned on form and function. The 3 handguns I have now bought give me good coverage on styles. i.e. DA/SA hammer (Sig), SA hammer (1911), Striker Fired (PPQ) I'm still undecided on which I prefer, however it also depends on whether I am shooting at the range, carrying, or starting to go to competitions. I'm personally not a fan of revolvers, although they are also a good first choice. hth TheWombat

It is not a range I would choose to go to again even if free. It was a definite detractor from undertaking any further training courses with NJ Firearms Academy who we used for our Basic Pistol. Luckily we found GunForHire for our subsequent courses. TheWombat

I was recently in a similar situation, new FID, 3 PPs, and have now just bought my third pistol :-). Rather than get a dedicated .22 I instead went with a Sig P226 in 9mm and bought a .22 conversion kit on the basis that I only use up one permit and I get to practice trigger control on the same Sig using .22 which is also the gun I will use for competitions. I had also considered going for the Sig P250 as for a single pistol permit you get a modular firearm that can be full size, compact, sub compact, 9mm, .40 and .45. However in the end I decided to not take the P250 route as there were other firearms which I preferred for my initial 3 permits. I've shot the GSG .22 1911 a few times and can recommend it if you are looking at .22 options, otherwise consider the conversion kit. hth TheWombat

Appreciate doesn't totally answer your questions however NRA Basic Pistol etc will also provide what you need. Depending on level of experience and whether you already have one of these certificates this may be a valid option. I recently applied and received my FL CCW and used my NRA Basic Pistol certificate as evidence. I had my prints/photos etc taken at GunForHire and it was straight forward. I believe they'll charge $50 for this and if you email them you can check on where you can turn up. Contact GFH and they'll be able to help. I also applied for the Utah at the same time with GunForHire and now have both Utah and Florida. Can't help on the hunting I'm afraid regards TheWombat

I have the Sig P226 USPSA which is the Sig P226 Elite with different sights. I would recommend the following: Try a P229 with and without the beavertail to see which fits your hand better. I find the beavertail pushes my hand lower than I would like It is easy to fit the E2 grips or other grips if the overall grip is slightly too large or small If you are not used to DA/SA (assuming the model you are going for is DA/SA) then consider if that is what you are after. There are pros and cons. I like my Sig P226, however I have also sent it to GrayGuns for some trigger work I would agree with the posts on the P228 being a better options if you can find a good one at a reasonable price and you don't want the rail for a laser/light etc. My wife has a P228 and it has a much nicer trigger than my P226 which has the SRT. hth TheWombat

It definitely felt more than 72 rounds, I had to recount my empty boxes twice to ensure I hadn't made a mistake! It was a great afternoon and thanks for the coaching and guidance throughout the session. I may very well signup for another 2nd Step, although with just me and Mrs Smith/Wombat. I'll be doing some daily dry-fire exercises now! Will be in contact re: giving some of your handguns a try. thanks MrWombat/Smith

My wife and I completed our NRA Basic Pistol and also rented at ShoreShot while the FID application was being processed. If you've not done so already then I'd recommend looking at the NRA course and also applying for your Utah (will need a separate course) and Florida (can use your NRA Basic Pistol certificate) CCW all of which can be done without your FID. That should keep you busy for a short while. Apart from that my wife and I spent countless hours working on a shortlist of pistols to buy (one a month for x months), although the list was constantly changing as we kept finding new possibilities. We also bought in the various cleaning and other supplies we needed so we had them ready. Good luck! TheWombat

The GFH day went well and I highly recommend both them, and the 2nd Step course. You can read more at http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/29248-gfh-1st-step-and-2nd-step-pistol/ The PPQ performed flawlessly. The DeSantis Speed Scabbard holster was ok, it's been broken in by having a thin sock over the gun and wearing it for a few days as well as holstering several tens of times. I will keep looking for a good Kydex holster as well so I can have the comparison as the holster draw from the DeSantis is not quite as smooth as I would like, this could be due to the need to further break in the holster, the position on my body, my belt or my technique as it is the first holster I have owned. I am wearing the 1.5" CompTac belt with the holster. hth TheWombat

Glad it helped, I shoot at both RTSP and ShoreShot if you ever go to one of these two. TheWombat

Mrs Wombat and I have just got home from the 1st and 2nd Step Pistol at Gun For Hire. We were at the Cedar Grove Academy facility which was excellent and the overall experience with GunForHire was very positive and I recommend the 2nd Step course through GunForHire for anyone who has not already taken it. 1st Step We completed our NRA Basic Pistol through a different trainer about 3 months ago. This was before we had our Firearms ID and before we found out about NJGunForum and GunForHire. We didn't have a positive experience on this previous trainer with the NRA Basic Pistol for a number of reasons. Now, 3 months later MrsWombat and I have our FID, Utah/Florida CCW (through GunForHire) and we each have a couple of pistols and have shot ~1000 rounds each. We decided to spend the day on the 1st Step with GunForHire as a refresher and also to provide the opportunity to move on to the 2nd Step. Overall experience of the course was positive. Jimmy undertook the majority of instructing the course with Anthony popping in near the end. We had the opportunity to shoot our own firearms and the provided S&W Revolver and Glock, although we both kept to our own pistols and the revolver. The NRA Basic Pistol we previously took was a much longer course with a theory test and lots of Powerpoint Slides. The First Steps is a much shorter course, much fewer slides, no theory test and hence much more engaging with dialogue. Also the GunForHire instructors were much more engaging and 'better' than our previous experience with a different training provider. I'm still not entirely sure why the NRA provide both the Basic Pistol and 1st Steps Pistol? The only 'developmental' feedback I could provide Anthony and Jimmy on the 1st Step was around the guidance around transportation of firearms/ammunition, and making it more clear to the students as to what is actual law, what is gray area and what is recommended. e.g. traveling with loaded magazines separate from a locked firearm and where this sits in these categories. We spoke about this at the end of the course and they are going to update what is covered to clarify this. To me that is a big positive that they actually listen to feedback. 2nd Step I took the Walther PPQ 9mm and MrsWombat took her Kimber Customer Aegis II 9mm. In many ways this was both the most frustrating training course and the most eye opening training course I have ever undertaken as normally shooting at the range I am more accurate than MrsWombat. The 2nd Step course today had 7 students, with Anthony undertaking the training. The course lasted around 3.5 hours (longer than normal and I assume this was due to there being 7 students?) and was almost entirely on the shooting range. During the 2nd step I shot 6 rounds per exercise in 12 different exercises (72 rounds in total) although I believe normally classes, if smaller, would shoot more based on the class description on the GunForHire website which mentions 200 rounds and also some exercises I don't believe we undertook (e.g. weak hand shooting). To be fair this class was also at a significant discount to the normally advertised 2nd Step cost on the GunForHire website. The exercises begin with shooting a single 3" dot, then two 3@ dots, then body and head, then shooting the same dot while taking a step left and right, then finally shooting a 3"dot from behind cover to the left and to the right while drawing from a holster or picking up the firearm. Sounds easy however with the added stress of the environment it definitely provides a different experience to just shooting at a standard target in a range at my own time. If nothing else it helps show how your aiming and trigger control react under added stress. I highly recommend the 2nd Step course for everyone as an introduction into shooting other than the standard targets at a range. It has helped me think more about where to focus further training and self-improvement rather than just the usual range visits. The only 'developmental' feedback I could give, and I only thought about this in the car on the way home is that I wish we had taken home the targets from the 2nd step which would also have meant using a new target for each person on the final concealment exercises. This would have been a useful reminder to me. So the summary is a great day, GunForHire delivered an enjoyable day with the two courses, and the 2nd Step Pistol is perfectly valid for someone who has been shooting for 3 months, and also for someone who has been shooting paper targets for much longer. Thanks Anthony & Jimmy. Thanks to MrsWombat as well :-) We also met OldGlockGuy - so great to meet another forum member! :-) TheWombat

I replaced the standard PPQ sights with Trijicon sights. The Trijicon's are about 1mm (sorry I use metric!) taller although still have the rectangular profile. I have had no issues with racking the slide using either the front or rear of the slide (I prefer using the front slide serrations normally). My technique is to hold 'across' the slide, i.e. my 4 fingers are at right angles to the length of the gun with my palm gripping one side and 4 fingers on the other. I just completed the Gun For Hire Step 1 and Step 2 pistol which includes a higher stress situation and had no issues and this was with explicitly using the rear slide serrations all day. In fact just having read this post and trying to rack the (unloaded) firearm at home with no snap cap or magazine I just pinched my palm in the ejector because I didn't 'let go' of the slide for the forward movement and I was gripping the rear slide serrations. This was me being silly as I didn't want to let the slide go with no round (live or snap cap) in the magazine. In terms of sights, the PPQ after market sights are limited (at present), however the good news is that the P99 sights fit fine, which provides more options. The Trijicon sights I have had fitted are for the P99 and fit perfect. I've not checked what other sights are available as I specifically wanted the Trijicons on this firearm. hth TheWombat

Hopefully we'll see you, I'll be in black trousers, black/grey striped t-shirt and a grey sleeveless fleece top. I don't actually look like a wombat! TheWombat

Also worth checking whether you can get a .22 conversion kit for your firearms. For Sigs and CZs this is possible for many of the models. It lets you practice on technique at a fraction of the cost and without the recoil etc. I've just ordered the .22 conversion kit for my Sig P226 now that they are back in stock. hth TheWombat

I'm sure some politicians will say that pepper spray needs to be better controlled as a result of this incident. I struggle to understand what goes through these people's minds to think that using pepper spray in this situation could be seen as appropriate. The mother obviously felt that pepper spray was justified at the time, and presumably there have been examples which are worse. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/11/25/ten-injured-after-woman-uses-pepper-spray-on-black-friday-crowd/ Probably more to the story than has been reported. TheWombat

What do you want them for... range fun, competition, carry? What do you already have? TheWombat

While I have around 20 ammo websites I check however the following are the shortlist that I buy from most often as they are consistently the best on their pricing: http://www.ammunitiontogo.com http://www.natchezss.com/ http://www.sgammo.com/ http://palmettostatearmory.com/ http://www.targetsportsusa.com/ Palmetto shipping is $12 per 1000 rounds 9mm TargetSportsUSA is free shipping for buying by the case (e.g. 1000 rounds 9mm FMJ, 400-500 rounds of .45 HP etc) The others are typically around $30-$40 per 1000 rounds 9mm IIRC. I've ordered from all the above and have not had any issues. I typically order Speer, Federal, Sellier & Bellot or Winchester Ranger. At present the following can be found: 1000 x 9mm named brand FMJ = ~$200 1000 x .45 FMJ = $320 (Federal), $440 (Speer) hth TheWombat

My wife and I are booked to attend the 1st and 2nd Step Pistol on Sunday with GFH. I'll post afterwards how it went although expect it will be a positive experience! We will therefore not be at RTSP on Sunday as we had originally planned. TheWombat & MrsWombat