Sorry for my disrepect, Griz. I should have wrote Griz.
Wasn't portraying you as something you are not. LOL
You set me straight, Griz!
That is a load of crap. Police don't need to show a force at ANY demonstration. I am not trying to tell you how to do your job, but peaceful 2nd Amendment Gatherings are not the same as ANTIFA antics. I completely realize that there could be some unintended guests showing up, though. There is hardly ANY show of force needed in a peaceful public park in a playground...
The level of threat perceived by a militarized law enforcement always scanning for and looking for a threats on beaches?
I am glad they were there. Did they write any citations? Were any nuns thrown to the ground, or handcuffed in front of their 3-year-old?
No, I would have been OK with that, and in particular if their purpose was standing for the 1st Amendment. I wouldn't have wanted drones and SWAT there, though, to frighten those blessed people. And, I assume that they weren't needed.
No, I wouldn't. How many police were there when Schumer actually made a real threat? What was done about it, that fire in a movie-theater action... Now back from your distraction.
Absolutely! Have you seen a lot of violence at the park with fathers playing ball with their kids? Perhaps the threat of showing up in force just ups the ante? I am not disagreeing with you that things could turn violent. I am disagreeing with the way you are looking at this saying "can't be bothered" and "let them sort it out in the courts".
What part of the Constitution are you referring to? Police power is exercised by the legislative and executive branches of the various states through the enactment and enforcement of laws. States have the power to compel obedience to these laws through whatever measures they see fit, provided these measures do not infringe upon any of the rights protected by the United States Constitution their own state constitutions and are not unreasonably arbitrary or oppressive. In my opinion and apparently the opinions of the LEOs mentioned, these sporadic instances are unreasonable and oppressive.
NO they don't because they are Unconstitutional.
NO. It is the job of ALL government working in tandem (and for the people) creating checks and balances to uphold the Constitution and the right of the individual to his or her government. It is the responsibility for the legislature to make Constitutional Laws and it is is the Executive Branch's responsibility to enforce those laws justly and through the lens of the Constitution. Carrying that badge and that gun is a lot of responsibility and power and should be met judiciously (and thank God in most cases is). The Court is suppose to be a safeguard, and those powers (Judicial Review) were not specifically granted within the Constitution, but assumed by the Court, itself. Chief Justice Marshall took a big leap on that one, and there needs to be checks and balances on that self-granted power! Just because it is a safeguard when used properly doesn't mean that it has to, or should be exercised to reach that level.
This is where you are fundamentally wrong in claiming that YOU have no responsibility, and that was what I was essentially pointing out. It is that view that is ultimately dangerous to a Republic and what I strongly disagree with.
They have culpability and a duty and responsibility, but so does ANYONE that takes an oath and carries a badge and a gun, or a "civilian" citizen for that matter performing a duty.
It is not a question of "being bothered". They have a fundamental duty to protect the Constitutionally enumerated rights of the citizen, first and foremost before all of their other duties. That is why it is that part of YOUR oath comes first.
This has NOTHING to do with feelings in any way. It has to do with conditioning of our law enforcement and the top-down structure that promotes this duality and in some cases, robotic militarization. Unlike, just as law enforcement has no duty to protect individuals, they have a moral duty, officers DO have a moral and legal duty to uphold the law of the land (The Constitution) to the best of their abilities.
I am glad that you are good person with a good conscious. My response has NOTHING to do with YOU personally. It doesn't matter whether you have sympathy or not. You are bound by your oath.
Yes, I do, as law enforcement's PRIMARY duty is to protect the rights of its citizens (who law enforcement took an oath to protect and ultimately work for). You don't work for the politicians. You work on behalf of the people, just like those potentially self-serving politicians and administrators that sign your checks on yours and my behalves. You aren't accountable for the actions of other individual cops (they are), but you are responsible for keeping them in check. And, you have a duty to that respect, I would think, in educating fellow cops on these very principles and setting the right example in your departments and troops.
I have a duty to do something about it and not look the other way, even if it is my LEO partner or, perhaps, my adult child.
What are you talking about. Please clarify so I can respond.
I want all cops to hold themselves accountable for their own choices and actions and I want them to make sure each other is on the same page and that they individually and collectively live up to their oaths and are worthy of the temporary and limited power that has been granted to them. Their first and foremost duty is to uphold the Constitution and the rights of individuals they serve.
No, actually in those places cops just did what they were told and let their betters sort it out.
You haven't made it clear exactly what I don't understand. I might add there are a few unlawful instances in which the police "eagerly" over-reacted rather gleeful or solemn that have recently emerged in the news, and it would be distasteful and dangerous to our Republic if it was to become a pattern.
In many of those instances those EOs are NOT legal and therefore should not be enforced. Contrary to mine, and by your logic the police that have had the Constitution beat into them at the academy have no duty on their own to make that determination, or do they?
I say they do. Do they have an ability to exhibit their own discretion?
I want them to hold themselves to a higher standard and hold themselves accountable. With greater power comes greater responsibility. I want the politicians to do the same... The executive, judicial and legislative government individuals all have that individual duty.
What are you talking about, now? What does this have to do with the discussion? The Constitution came first. It has precedence. How does this apply to what we are friendly sparring with about?
You are almost comical. I applaud those peace officers that they are not jackboot thugs and that they expound Constitutionally framed familiarity and common sense and that they are the mega-majority of law enforcement, and particular those that are the beat cops and not the politically-motivated higher-up politician cops.
Maybe we are saying the same thing, but "bothered" to me is the wrong word. It is not "bothered" but they are willfully standing up for liberty.
I do respect you and the difficult job you have, Griz. I wouldn't want, nor am I suited to your line of work. I respect those two LEOs because they are speaking out against the growing tyranny that they are seeing. I value YOU for the job you have and the common sense you have. I am trying to get you to look at what you are saying in a different light. Officer Anderson and Sheriff Bianco weren't appealing to me as much as they were appealing to all law enforcement in the US to do the right thing. They were instructing other LEOs to consider what is going on in this country and respond in a possible, Constitutionally-framed manner.
ALL jobs and the workers that do them are essential, police, medical, shoe store, hair cutters, etc. There is no "us and them"...
Agreed, Sir. However, there are just as many similarities.
By the way, should illegal red-flag laws be enforced until you are told not to do it?
I am not the enemy, and I am not happy that you are being put in that position to make calls like enforcing COVID BS. That is your call and your conscious.