Underdog

I hope that if S&W comes out with another single-stack 9mm, that it will be the same size as the M&P 22 Compact. I think it is my overall favorite 22 pistol for plinking, etc., even though the Ruger 22/45 Lite is more versatile. The full-size M&P 22 is also a very nice rimfire handgun.

Hmmm... I would rather have two American-made M&P Shields, though, instead. Or options with the new Glock and a Shield.

”He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security.” -Ben Franklin

Yes, the six rounds relatively stinks. But, if you carry a revolver it isn't so bad to your way of thinking. I don't think Glock really wanted to make this, but they have been steadily losing market shares. Just maybe they should listen to what their customers want. However, I think that they fell from the mark. They should have come out with a Glock 19-sized single-stack. Getting back to the mag capacity... However that capacity issue will most likely be addressed by Pearce, or even Glock later down the line with mag extensions of some kind, especially for tactical reloads. I cannot say I wouldn't mind having one of the new Glocks, but with experience in both platforms I agree the S&W M&P Shield is a better product. It has a better stock trigger than a Glock. The Shield doesn't rub my finger pad the wrong way like Glocks do. Is the hinged M&P trigger perfect? No, but not bad at all on the new M&Ps, and better than the Glock style of trigger, any day. The M&P slide is made from stainless steel which I consider better than the Glock magazine and has high quality stainless magazines and metal sights, which I am guessing the new Glock doesn't come stock with either. S&W had its Shield plentifully available on day one and holsters and other support for it, etc., and for many it has much better ergonomics than a Glock. And lately, it now comes with or without the thumb safety, and it can be had with 2-4 extra mags for the same price as the Glock. And it can hold more rounds than the Glock. It seems to be a little larger than the new Glock and might be harder to conceal for some because of the way it is being carried, but it is closer to what many believe the ideal gun size is, that of the Glock 19, And, the thickness is really the most important element of concealed carry. I would like to see a Glock 19-sized one, a long-slide Shield and/or Glock. Really, the only complaints I have with the Shield are that when it initially came out it could only be had with a thumb safety, that it is too slippery without additional modification, especially when it isn' t too suited for pocket carry (and that can be addressed with grips, etc.), that the paint on the sight dots is poor quality to say the least, and that the underside of the trigger guard should have a larger groove for your middle finger. But, the Shield's big plus is that it handles much more like a full size handgun and give the size of the new Glock, it cannot compete in that area, although maybe with a grip extension. If one won't agree that the M&P is a better engineered and better quality handgun, one would have to agree that the Shield is a better value, especially now with the exaggerated prices on the new Glock. And I have to fault Glock for not listening to the customer and not getting the single-stack out sooner. Maybe it was only released because they have been losing too much market shares because they don't seem to respond to the customers that much (hey why mess with something that works). Oh wait, I said that earlier. I think the 380 came out first solely to sell more guns. Many people who jumped on and bought the 380 really wanted the 9mm and will now buy it. If it came out first, the sales for the 380 would not nearly had been as much. And, I think Glock should have come out with a single stack the size of a Glock 19, instead, but they are smartly releasing this one first knowing that people will buy this FIRST and then they will buy the larger single stack 19-sized one later on, which will hopefully alow them to use those larger capacity mags in the current smaller singl-stack 9mm. Lastly, I think S&W is remiss for not releasing a double-stack Glock19-sized "semi-compact"that would give the G19 a run for its money. The Shield and the 43 are two different animals. I choose the M&P for my purposes in NJ as the preeminent carry gun. Maybe if I could live in a state where I could carry, the Glock would be a striker-fired consideration, if only because it is more pocketable than a Shield, but there seems to be better options if you want a strickly pocket gun than this newborn Glock.

I had a chance to shoot one this past weekend and I like the S&W M&P Shield a little more. By the way, those CZs are very nice.

Those of you that don't think that Sweeney, Weinberg and crew won't enact the NJ SAFE Act, the Washington Transfer Act, and on and on regardless of whether or not that statist liberal recalled, you are kidding yourself. But imagine if NJ rallied and went into that district and showed these politicians that we aren't going to sit still while they confiscate our natural rights and property. Any of you relatively informed individuals that don't lift a finger to go on the proverbial, peaceful and lawful offensive in NJ against these tyrannical politicians truly deserve the Republik and all that goes with it. Sweeny broke his promise and continues to show disrespect to us and to the nation that he capitalizes on. We cannot keep taking our licks and crawl away quietly with our tails between our legs, even if we are the underdog.

Are you sure this wasn't work place violence?

Gun control is people control, period. The big-government, socialist, statist, crony-capitalistic, Marxist, collectivist, liberal, progressives and their RINO friends want to control every aspect of the lives of the ruled class. Since they have no intention of stopping their anti-freedom, anti-personal property campaigns, they NEED to disarm an increasingly alarmed citizenry. Yes, they may use this to deflect from other things, but they are also using it to advance their agenda. Yes, it may be a rally point, but it is more than that. It is an assault politician attack on our society, values and freedoms.

I am also a big fan of the Savage rifles. I think the Savage 10 FCM Scout s an interesting and versatile rifle. It is not a Scout rifle in the truest sense as envisioned by Jeff Cooper. And It comes in 7.62x39 as well. I like the model 16s, too. The 16s are nice for their weather resistance. Others to consider used at a good price would be Ruger 77, or a Winchester Model 70. The newer Remingtons seem to have quality issues. The Ruger American Rifle might be a nice budget rifle and the Mossberg Patrol (in .223) is also really neat, as it takes AR mags.

This is an interesting thread. Regardless of whether or not it was prudent to poke that liberal schmuck with a stick, the die has been cast. And, now we gun owners BETTER follow through and work toward the recall. I for one don't think it would have mattered if he had been left alone. He showed his colors and agenda. The continued attacks on freedom and private property would have continued, anyway. In one way, it is about time that NJ citizens start to go on the offensive against these schumerheads that continued to show little regard and take away our rights. And, it would be better for those power grabbers to try something big, instead of all the constant little things they do to harass good people minding their own business. The fudds need their worlds rocked. And, it is better to elicit his spite while the RINO is in place, as great horny toad might do the right thing if he believes it is politically expedient. We need the courage and fortitude to follow through. Hopefully this has been well thought out and the American citizens in this state will stand up for what is right and participate. As far as leaving NJ, the battle ground is everywhere. The liberal progressives and limousine and international interest money is everywhere. There won't be any safe havens in these United States. The people need to stand strong on their beliefs, principles, and protect freedom as each of our generations before have and as each of the newer generations will do. These battle-ground slave states are where its at. Those power-hungry and with an agenda need to be put in check. Instead of wondering if we will be able to continue to have 15-round magazines. Demand 30 rounders. Demand silencers. Support local police departments that support gun rights. This might be a valuable angle as the Left continues its erosion and increasing control of local police departments. We could put together a group like Fathers Demand Black Rifles, or just support NJ2AS. It's about time we are taking action. We need to do have other strategic, peaceful, yet offensive actions in the works as well. I think we should reclassify our politicians, instead.

Ramsey's is Ledgewood chips, scratches and bangs the chit out of its stock of firearms. Their process of taking them in and out of the cases every day sure has its toll on those firearms.

Do you really think that clown won't do it if we don't try to recall him? If you really think about it and you want to have guns in NJ, the big guy, who really isn't a friend of gun owners, anyway, and we might see it if he no longer has national Asspirations, well, he won't be in there for forever, and marginally getting our backs. So, who is on the short list to replace him? At that point and time do you think things will go good? No, right. So, maybe our only hope is to enlist the fudds, non-believers, naysayers, etc. and sink that pathetic, lying, no good, NJ politician. A message has to be sent to the party, and in particular his replacement.

After reading this thread, it is a shame there are a bunch of girls in this state that own guns. And not the cool real ladies that know how to use them.

As Griz said, get the .357 one with slightly more weight and thereby a little more beefy. It has added weight for control and overall more versatility. Depending on your needs, you may want the LCRX version with the 3" barrel. This is what I would get. Or, possibly the one in 9mm. That would be relatively a little more snappy than the .38 version, though.

Yes, I would like to see this as well. But, there are plenty of sites that cater to this. I have done my share of rescuing animals, and in particular dogs. Dog ownership is akin to Gun Ownership and Apple Pie... entwined in the red, white, and blue threads. Perhaps a link or an agreement could be had with another site. Why doesn't a member start an NJ rescue site?

You are agreed with quite a lot.

Whoever said that S&W M&P 22 Compacts couldn't be sold in NJ is full of Frog Lube. It's well worth finding one.

This is just another reason why M&Ps are better. If Glock wants that info, let them offer you a free mag or something and the consumer can follow-up with Glock on his or her own. If it is disclosed to the consumer at the time of purchase, then the dealer shouldn't have an issue with it. I think it is more common for the LEO to be the middle man on the discounted Glocks than the dealer doing it outright.

I am not a big fan of Henry's. I envision them as sheet metal, but others love them. In my opinion, if you want a lever action, see if you can find an older Marlin 39A. I would consider a Ruger 10/22 Take Down model for versatility as well as the Henry, though. As was pointed out, the Ruger and the S&W handguns are for different purposes. And, both have a place in a firearm battery. Since you mentioned that you and your wife would be shooting, I would probably go with the S&W M&P 22 Compact (or the full-size one). I like the Compact because it is US made at S&W. The full size is outsourced. I am suggesting the M&P 22 Compact because it is a fun plinker and it is better for smaller hands (usually a woman's and maybe a child or grandchild's hands, niece, etc. are also in the mix), and it is lighter, considerably lighter than a Ruger Mark, which might be a significant consideration with a lot of shooting. And, still with a 22, recoil will be marginal. If you and your wife have larger hands, you might want to consider the full-size S&W M&P 22 which is also a really great gun. The Ruger Mark III can get really heavy with the bull barrel, etc.. But, the Ruger Marks work exceptionally and have awesome accuracy, especially the longer barrelled ones. I actually prefer a used Mark II Target over the Mark III Target if you can find an older, used one. If you do want an all-steel Mark III, check out the Hunter model. I like this model that is a TALO exclusive: TALO exlusive 5.5" Hunter Model 10125. The 6-and-some-change barrelled one is even more heavy than the 4 or 5" model. As a side note, I do not like the v-notch rear sight of the Hunter model and would swap it out with the regular notched site (at an additional cost from Ruger). But, let me suggest a great compromise... a Ruger Mark III 22/45 Lite. It is lighter, check. It has a slightly longer barrel and with its fixed barrel than the S&W, a lot of accuracy, check (like the standard Mark the slide doesn't move), and because of that it can easily mount a scope on top, or a laser if you want one. You can install any 1911 grips on it with minimal modification, and the grip angle is similar to the M&P and/or a 1911. This can serve as both a tactical shooter as well as a relatively speaking tack driver. I don't know if I would get the newer blue model, though. I like this model if you can find one... Ruger 22/45 Lite. And, here is a review: Ruger 22/45 Lite - The Truth About Guns Here is another one from NutnFancy: Ruger 22/45 Lite: Excellent But Unoriginal Here is a review of the S&W: Smith & Wesson M&P22 Compact - The Truth About Guns I think you should get both the M&P and a Target Ruger Mark. You can get more than 1 permit.

S&W M&P 45C

I'd go with a Mossberg 500/590. I like the TR500, 599A1, or a Persuader. I like the location of the safety and probably best on a budget. An Ithaca 37 is a nice choice, too, and the ejection is on the bottom, nice for lefties. But that KSG looks awesome.

I second the M&P Shield, however, it isn't really a pocket gun. Another thought would be the budget-friendly Kahr CM9 or a Ruger LCR.

This is an awesome little 22 handgun. It has a nice trigger and adjustable sights and it is made in the USA. If you have a Shield it is a good training handgun. It will not fit in any other M&P holsters, though. It does better with hotter 22s.

I have visited many 2nd Amendment and Firearms-related websites that have lots of information. Following are some that I like. They are in no particular order and they are not exclusive, and they might have outdated info, etc. They are just some that I have enjoyed visiting. Maybe you have some sites to share as well. John Lott's Website - 2nd Amendment Powerhouse The Truth About Guns - Awesome Gun Reviews Mr. Completely Randy Wakeman Outdoors - Shotguns and more Chuckhawks.com - Informative site, there is a paid side as well Personal Defense Network - Lots of self-defense info. Alpharubicon.com - Lots of articles, and with a LEO focus Gunner's Journal - 1911s and others ... Xavier Thoughts - Personal Defense Stories and more Massad Ayoob on Guns - No intro needed Hi Powers and Handguns - In depth info, especially about Browning Hi Powers The Snubnose Files

As an FYI, you could have applied for more than one handgun permit. And, they are suppose to be good for 180 days. As long as the chief does his job. You might want a 22 of some kind and a defensive weapon, or possibly a semi-auto and a revolver. Or, you might want a "full size" and a "compact". Or, you might get one and decide it isn't the one for you. With the waiting times in Hudson it is worth an extra $2-$4 dollars or so to avoid the lengthy and unjust permitting process. To the best of my knowledge, it took over a year for someone in North Bergen to get a permit, and it was made as hard as possible... Wednesday between 10 an 10:30, etc. As a side note, Hudson County, NJ, is perhaps the most corrupt county in all of the USA. Good Luck.