High Exposure

A 7” pattern at 7 yards? That doesn’t sound so good for HD. Hunting maybe. For example - At 5 yards, from a 14” barrelled 870P (modified choke) the Federal Flite Control looks like a slug. At 7 yards, it is only ever so slightly bigger. At 15 yards maybe 3” spread. At 25 yards all 8 pellets in an 9” circle (patterned all pellets in a circle bathing from 8” at the smallest to 10” at the biggest, so I’ll call it 9”)

It’s not I don’t think #4 could do the job, it’s I know 00B (maybe #1) will do it better. I don’t aspire to mediocrity and I want the deck stacked in my favor at all times. I want every possible advantage I can get my hands on. Another point to consider, do they make #4 in a Flight Control wad? So now you are choosing lesser performing ammo, that doesn’t shoot as tight a group. That is a huge deciding factor for me in shotgun SD ammo. Even if #4 proved to be slightly better, I think I would still choose something that is Flite Control.

Sadly it’s usually the opposite. You can count on at least a 50% degradation in skill when it’s for real.

Rounds designed for self defense don’t care who uses them. The best round is the best round. What is the difference between stopping a deadly threat in a house whether you are wearing your pajamas or a blue uniform? A deadly force encounter, when all the chips are on the line, is not the time to use second best. Especially when there are proven better options out there.

Ok. horse->water=/=drink

It’s all about penetration Ray, not number of hits. All the hits in the world don’t matter if you cant get the projectile through the clothing, flesh, and bone to hit the important bits - the bits that stop fights. Granted, no hit will ever increase the morale of your target, but only good hits that go deep enough will stop threats reliably. Also, I haven’t see any shotguns in the hands of any of the three letter agencies in a loooong time. It’s all carbines and sub-guns.

You get 10 points for cross-thread shenanigans.

Let’s be friends. I love you Griz, but not in a Navy way

I’ve heard 8 pellet has less chance of a flier. Less pellets means they aren’t as compressed together in the shell so there is less chance of a pellet or two getting any flat spots or deformities. Not sure if I believe it, but that’s a “selling point” from the manufacturer. Less recoil is another factor. FWIW - we use Federal 8 pellet 00B Flite Control.

I would - even if limited to only one configuration.

Who brought the pizza? Just sayin’... http://theoatmeal.com/comics/who_vs_whom

I think you were looking for 2C:39-6g g.All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances. Show me where it says you can’t stop to pee, or get gas, or eat...

Agreed

Ok, but there is a law against that. Again, pretty cut and dry. Just as cut and dry as another law that says you have no duty to retreat in your home if being attacked. You go ahead and do what you want but don’t propagate false info.

And .50BMG even moreso. Ray, you are a lover of all things shotgun (weirdo*) and fairly learned on the topic (for a weirdo*) - would you use slugs in a HD gun? Hell, you don’t even want to use 00B and prefer birdshot (like a weirdo*). *said with love

Fun isn’t it! I’ve decoyed for my brother before. That being said, if you didn’t care about hurting the dog and came prepared - bat, gun, taser, fire extinguisher - could you have put that dog down? Depends. What does the bad guy want? Does he want you have more than he wants what your neighbor has? It is all about preparation. Burglars are getting more and more sophisticated and ballsy. They are casing houses, gathering intel. They are patient and prepared.

Jeebus..... Show me one person that has gone to jail for 10 years for stopping to pee on the way home from the range. I’ll wait..... Where do you guys come up with some of his stuff. It’s like an urban legend that everyone believes in because one idiot said it’s true or it happened to their cousin’s girlfriend’s aunt’s former roommate. Again! It is black and white. “The actor is not obliged to retreat from his dwelling, unless he was the initial aggressor” You have an expectation of safety in your home. You have no obligation to retreat from there if you are being attacked or threatened with death or serious bodily injury. That doesn’t necessarily mean that escape isn’t a better option if it is available to you, but if you have to use force in your home, you are covered.

It is not nuanced. It’s literally right there in the statute. “The actor is not obliged to retreat from his dwelling, unless he was the initial aggressor” As for slugs, unless you have a hallway well over 50 yards and your target is all the way down there you are going to have over penetration issues even if you hit your intended threat. Slugs will always carry over penetrarion concerns. They hit hard and punch through meat. Slugs generally have more recoil and longer split times between follow up shots. 5.56 has significantly less overpenetration issues than slugs AND the projectiles lose energy faster (translating to less lethality and potential for injury) after passing through typical US construction material than either pistol or shotgun rounds that are suitable for defense.

@IndianajonzeWhy don’t you read the actual law instead of spouting complete nonsense that is wrong. You have no obligation to retreat from your dwelling, unless you are the one causing the situation requiring the use of force. And finally, why would you use slugs for HD? Probably the worst round you could use in a house.

Yup. Contrary to the popular saying: Practice does not make perfect - It merely makes permanent. It should be: Perfectly Performed Pertinent Procedures Practiced Properly Produces Perfection.

Yes And everyone has done it when trying to run a pump gun at or near the limit of their top speed.