High Exposure

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TL, I have not found your position to be antagonistic in the least. I do find it a bit naive (this is not meant as an attack or schoolyard name calling) and I have found that it is an opinion shared by many folks who I have met that are either unfamiliar with violence or have never been a victim themselves. You are looking at this all wrong: The primary purpose to have a firearm for self defense is not to end a life. It is to save a life - Yours. Whether you use a firearm and the perp lives, dies, or is permanently injured is not really a concern at the time I am fighting for my life. The immediate goal in a deadly force encounter is to make them stop doing whatever it is they are doing that is making me fear for my life (or the lives of my loved ones). I will do this as fast as possible and in no uncertain terms. It may take no shots, it may take 1, or it may take a dozen. I will assess the threat to me and mine, I will process the threat accordingly, evaluate my intervention, and follow up with whatever needs to be done. I will not rely on posturing, intimidating, or threatening because that will not stop a determined attacker. The decision for a bad guy to threaten me or my family is a decision they made. I didn't do to their home and threaten them, I didn't go out looking to make anyone a victim. But once they do, whatever happens next, that is on them.

Brother, you are confusing a combat/survival mindset with wanting to kill. They are two different things. You really need to take SD/HD class from a reputable instructor (look for a Mossad Ayoob class, I am not a huge fan of his tactics but his HD/SD class is outstanding for the use of force lecture he gives). You have many misconceptions about the use of force, the use of a firearm for self defense, and how quickly violence occurs in the real world. It ain't the movies or TV - you don't have time to cock a hammer/shotgun, fire a warning shot, or talk someone down. There are I one liners or witty comebacks. You can't predict it, you can't avoid it, and you can't reschedule it. When it's on, it's on, and it isn't up to you. No one here wants to kill anyone. It is a horrible thing with serious legal, monetary, and psychological ramifications. But you yourself stayed the reason why someone would do it - you get to live - even if it's with guilt. If you didn't feel your life was in danger, you shouldn't be using lethal force - and anything that comes out of a gun (including bean bags) is lethal force in this state. If your life is in danger only you can change that - it is a decision you have to make. You didn't ask for it, you didn't go looking for it, but violence found you. Now it's up to you to stop it. If you want to take the chance that the bad guy grows a conscious, finds Jesus, or gives up his life of crime in the next .5 seconds, that's your gamble. It's only the rest your life that you are betting, and maybe your family's too... If I stick my hands in my pocket and rob a bank telling them I have a gun, it is still armed robbery. If you point a gun - even unloaded - at someone it is aggravated assault, a terroristic threat, and a slew of other charges. If you pull the trigger, even on a blank you are in the jackpot. Doesn't matter if you understand it not. Finally, I can guarantee you the cocking of a shotgun has zero advantages when attempting to intimidate an intruder in your home. Criminals aren't like you. They aren't scared easily. Many of them have had guns pointed at them many times, most likely by harder men than you. Loudly racking a shotgun also give up many of your advantages: you have revealed your position, your weapon, and your mindset - all to no advantage. If you use a firarm for HD and you don't make that thing ready the second you grab it you are wrong. You don't know where the bad guy is. You don't know when you will confront him. You don't know what he wants, who he's with, or what he has. You need to be ready to shoot* the instant you come in contact with him because you may not get another chance. This is not saying that you have to shoot, just because the gun is loaded doesn't mean you have to pull the trigger. If you have a position of advantage and you think you can give a warning safely, by all means do it. But you better be ready to defend yourself in case he thinks you are a joke. *Note: Being ready to do something isn't doing it. I have pointed guns at plenty of bad guys. I have never shot anyone - but my gun was always loaded and I was always ready to do it if I needed to.

It is simple. If you rack a shotgun to thwart a threat that has not risen to the level where deadly force is authorized, that is aggravated assault. If you fire a warning shot, to deter a threat that has not risen to the level of authorized deadly force, that is attempted murder. If you fire a warning shot at someone who's actions have escalated to the point where deadly force is authorized, you have just wasted valuable time - time that you could have used to save a life, very possibly yours, and you have just launched a projectile into the ether -with no idea where it will land or who it will hurt. Big no-no. If the threat has risen to the level where deadly force is authorized, i.e.: you are using a firearm (or any weapon, object, or physical force) to protect yourself, loved ones, or a third-party from significant serious bodily injury or death; why would you waste time posturing, threatening, racking a shotgun, or firing at something other than the immediate deadly threat? This is a mindset issue. You need to reflect on what's important to you, and what you would do to protect it. If you don't have it in you to use a firearm with the intent to stop someone immediately, you should think long and hard about using a firearm for self defense.

No bloodlust. Not even a little bit. Just realistic expectations of a weapon system and use of force implications from a firearms instructor that teaches use of force. There is no "wounding" or "warning" allowance in this state. There are no warning shots, no leg shots - If you are using a firearm in defense of yourself or your loved ones, it is deadly force or nothing in NJ. And your goal has to be to stop the threat, not maim, wound, or frighten - STOP. Not to mention, if an encounter is at the point where you are going to guns, it is not the time to be kind hearted. At that point it is literally do-or-die (or at least that should be your perception of events). If you think there is wiggle room there, then by your admission a firearm is not a legally authorized tool. At the time you feel you need to shoot someone to save your life, anything less than your full and dedicated intent to physically stop the current threat as fast as possible and at all costs is doing you and your loved ones a great disservice. Oh, And the Marines uses the M1014 shotgun, also known as the Benelli M4 - which uses the ARGO gas system as stated above - which is a completely different semi auto action than the M3's inertia driven system.

Agreed. But shooting to wound (birdshot) and shooting to deter (Less Lethal) are both really bad ideas tactically and legally. LEOs can't even use bean bags in NJ, and anything that comes out of a firearm is legally considered deadly force in NJ - regardless if it's a bean bag, birdshot, buckshot, or a slug. In any event, the way to allay your concerns regarding the function of a semi-auto shotgun with a myriad of loads remains the same - get a pump gun.

Vlad G, Bhunted, and others are correct - this is an unnecessary concern, but if it is giving you sleepless nights, the the simple answer is - wait for it...... Get a pump shotgun. Take the money you save vs. the semi gun and buy ammo and take a class from a reputable instructor. With good initial training and proper practice - including dry fire and dummy rounds - you will be just as fast with the pump as a semi. You can also put whatever stock/grip/mag extension you want on it with no issue. I'm ignoring the bean bag and birdshot comment because that is such a bad idea I don't want to think about it too much, or all the blood in my body will shoot out of my nose....

Fair enough!

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/74345-can-anyone-suggest-a-nj-compliant-ak-variant/?p=943153

Finding them is no issue. Paying $20 a piece when you can get standard 30 rounders for $8 is annoying to say the least. What do you have "going on"? 30 rounders blocked to 15 rounds for < $10 would be a winner, IMO.

Good call. It is beautiful up there, a little dull in the winter though - Fall is really the best time to be up there. I spent the better part of 10 years climbing all over the cliffs at the Shawangunk preserve. One of my all time favorite places.

That is a stock photo of an SBR from SKD Tactical's website. That is not my rifle. Just so there is no confusion.

That is actually pretty cool..... Can you take a pistol and make it a rifle? I know it gets weird when you change one to the other or vice-versa - or it least it used to. Hopefully PK90 or Griz will chime in here in a minute. They are more up in that stuff than me. Don't forget, mags may be an issue as well. I only heard mention of 20 and 30 rounders.

Cough*loser*cough Well then there is only one answer:

Holy shitsnacks! That thing is huge! If it's over 50oz it's a no-go. Also curious if they would consider the frame around the barrel a "shroud".

Go North young man. Killington for a weekend of riding/skiing.

Intriguing, but any AR can do that without the expense or complexity of removing the actual barrel. I have a 14.5" (+ pinned brake to = 16") that I keep like this: And that fits in this:

Get this furniture:

Do you routinely take the barrel off the upper? Is that upper designed to do that?

Officer Smith should have checked the weapons condition and treated it as if loaded until he verified otherwise - rule 1, and he should not have put his finger in front of the muzzle - rule 2, and he should have kept his booger hook off the bang switch - rule 3.... But, who the fuck keeps a loaded gun in a sales display case at a gun store? What salesman thinks it's a good idea to hand a loaded gun to a customer - any customer - in a gun store showroom? Idiots, both of them. Culpable, both of them.

Ranch rifle only. Exactly what I keep getting.... That ultimak rail looks like the answer! Thanks

Something like this: Or this: But I can't find these rails.... Most of the stuff is for the Ranch version only.....

No, I was looking for like a scout rail or something. It will be a work gun and not mine, so I don't want to spend too much. Thanks Deer Slayer. I would like to keep the wood standard stock without a pistol grip though. I think it will give better data for why I am doing it.

Quoted for truth!! He's taller than me! Ha ha funny guy. What happened to your avatar? All I see is a big pile of shit

that's me in the blue and Pat in the tan