High Exposure

This is the lamest excuse for not having a WML and the one I hear the most often. Let me ask you this, if you have to point a gun at someone in daylight conditions, can they not can see exactly where you are? Just like turning on a light on your gun in low light? Or do you wear a cloak of invisibility when the sun is up and/or the lights are on? You still need to use the same tactics you would under normal daylight conditions. Use cover and concealment to your advantage at night with a WML just like you would during the day. Fight from a position of advantage whenever possible. If the light will be a disadvantage, don’t use it until you have changed your position and made it an advantage. If you don’t have a choice and have to fight where you stand, you will get better hits and get them faster (thus ending the fight sooner) with a light to assist your aim and discriminate your hits than you will in total darkness using 3 glowing green dots or a laser. Hardware can’t fix a software solution. If you have bad TTPs, no new whiz bang equipment can fix it. Again, ambient light can be great for seeing a sillouette of something. Terrible for discriminating objects in people’s hends or waistbands. The human brain is a tricky thing. You will see what you expect to see, even if it isn’t there, if you can’t see clearly.

I agree. And as I said earlier, if you don’t intend on using a gun for social purposes, than you don’t need one. /thread.

@capt14k I think he was “conceding” to my point. “Police and military did it for years.” Did being the operative word. Technology and innovation exist to make our lives easier. The ability to add a light directly to your weapon gives you the ability to stop training a skill that drained resources such as ammo and training time (of they gave you any at all) that can be dedicated to better use. Would you rather have 1 hour and 100 rounds to train two skills, each to mediocrity? Or would you prefer to train 1 skill to competence? It’s all a compromise. Also, I like Milsurp too. I think they are excellent example of living history. Anyway, I was just making a joke that we can all really get into the weeds regarding esoteric minutia when we are discussing something we are passionate about. I am not as knowledgeable as you are in the field by a long shot, and if I had a question, you are one of the first people I would ask. I, and @blksheep, and @GRIZ, and few others here whose screen names escape me right now, are knowledgeable about what it takes to train gunfighters. That is what we know and are passionate about. We are not making this shit up. We do it for real, we study it, we learn from some of the best in the world on the topic and utilize the TTPs we preach in the real world. It doesn’t matter if you are military, police, armed citizen, or a scared mother/father wanting to protect their family and castle - When you are in a situation where you need to have a gun in your hand, even once, you had better be a gunfighter. This seems like a ridiculous back and forth. The advantages of a weaponlight are self evident and overwhelming. They are affordable and there are many options. Arguing to not have one (on a gun that will easily accept one) is silly at best for closed minded reasons. You say 99% of us will never experience such a scenario. Hell, 99% of the people in this thread will never need a gun to protect or defend themselves. But they have them - as they should. If you look at most self defense gun uses and then look at attacks that would warrant the use of a gun in self defense, the majority happen in diminished light conditions where a white light, most especially a weapon light, would be indicated.

That’s where technique comes into play. Believe me, more light is better. You want enough light to bounce off walls and fill in the shadows your bright light creates. You use the ceiling and the floor to reflect light where you want it. Pointing a handheld light is a lot different that lining up the sights on a firearm with a light attached to it. The only time brighter light is a hindrance is in smoke/fog conditions.

Good idea:

This is false. I have a 1500 lumen light on my rifle and 600 or 1000 lumen lights on my pistols. I have never blinded myself, or even momentarily distracted myself, while clearing a structure. Proper technique is key. If you think about it, once you turn on any light while in the dark, your prepared night vision is toast. Once that happens, having more light is more gooder.

Ha! Better than discussing arsenal marks and cartouches on an 1823 Dinglehopper.

Shooting a pistol in true low light/no light conditions with a handheld flashlight using any of the current accepted techniques is the hardest, and most perishable skills there are when it comes to shooting. Add in shooting on the move and use of cover (two things I guarantee you will do if you are ever shot at or attacked) and it becomes a total shitshow. Doing the same with a WML is no different than doing it without one. Every time you shoot you are practicing it. It is intuitive and instinctive because the light is attached to your gun and points where you aim. In a for real “no shit there I was moment”? All of the Lumens. Every single one. And you will still wish you had more.

I don’t know about you, but I shoot a whole lot better with two hands on the gun in my regular firing grip than with just one hand or some cocked up juggling act where I am trying to hold a flashlight and a gun and aim them both at someone that I think is trying to kill me. It is also nice to be able to open a door, carry my kid, or dial a phone while still keeping both a gun and a light pointed at a threat.

Ok. So say you shoot at a stranger in your house - who may, or may not, deserve to have been shot, but you don’t know because you don’t need a weaponlight. Now what? How do you check the effectiveness of your work? What if the guy beats feet, what kind of description do you have? Say your target quickly disappears from view immediately following your shot. Did you hit them or miss? Did they trip in surprise, fall down from being shot, or dive for cover? Are they orienting themselves to bring a weapon to bear on you? You are making a lot of assumptions on how well you will perform in the worst moment of your life and a lot of assumptions of how impressed your target will be with your gunhandling skills. The light is necessary after your engagement as well. You need to track your threat. Decide if you need to shoot again. Get a description to tell authorities. It is flat irresponsible to use a firearm for self defense without a way to identify shoot from no shoot. Proper use of white light is the most effective way to do that.

I spend a lot of my time in the dark. I spend an unusually large amount of time pointing guns at people in the dark. Believe we when I tell you -or not, it’s your life: If you are going to use a gun for HD/SD it needs a light on it. We are visual creatures. We can make correct decisions faster if we can see. Stress affects us less when we can see. Our bodies are actually stronger when we can see. Hell, I have been in situations in daylight conditions where I needed a weaponlight to see past glare and actually see what someone was holding - Bright light makes dark shadows - the suspects body was casting its own shadow from daylight streaming through a window behind him and his hands were in his waistband, in conpleted darkness. I needed my weaponlight to see what he was holding. Ambient light is great for making nice sillouhettes. Not so much for identifying objects held in hands or tucked in their pants. But hey, what do I know. You do you. Just know, you could do better.

Good for you.

Yes, $100 is a lot of money. But it’s generally a good starting price for what quality lights cost. For most people, the Streamlight TLR series is adequate. It is an excellent value for a WML. Personally, I have tried a lot of different brands of weapon lights. They have all failed on me except Surefire, so that’s what I use.

I prefer the plastic ones. It’s not a waste. They don’t rust, are easy to clean and dry, they weigh less, and have tabs to lock the lids. I also like the size better for how I use them. I have metal cans too. They are for storage at home. The plastic cans are for range trips where I don’t need 1000 rounds at a time. The plastic holds up well enough, I haven’t broken one yet. At $3 each, how can you go wrong?

No. That is not acquisition. That is engaging. White light is 10000 times more important than a vis laser. Before you can engage a justified deadly force threat you have to: 1) Acquire a target - Is there someone standing in my kitchen or is that a something my wife left on the counter? 2) Identify if the target is Friend or Foe - Is that my son who snuck downstairs for a snack? Or is that an intruder? 3) Discriminate the target for the appropriateness of deadly force - OK. That’s not my son, and I don’t recognize him. Is he holding a can of soda, or a gun? To accomplish each of those tasks, you need to see. That means white light - and lots of it. The better you can see, the faster you can determine shoot/no shoot. Vis lasers on handguns suck. They are a feel good gimmick. They give a false sense of security and ability. You’d be better served with a MRDS.

This is the right answer.

Do not buy cheap/no-name batteries. Lithium batteries can catch fire and they can explode. Think of the batteries as the ammo for your gun. https://info.publicintelligence.net/FBI-LithiumBatteries.pdf

If you don’t use your guns for social purposes, then you do not need a mounted light. /thread

Surefire, Streamlight, or ASP - something with a built in breaker. I usually get them here - https://www.batteryjunction.com/

Do you keep a handheld flashlight near your HD gun to use or do you believe you don’t need a light at all?

.

Yes! There is iron in your words.

Well, I guess they are $7.00 now: https://www.harborfreight.com/ammo-dry-box-61451.html They’re still awesome.

Those little $5.00 plastic cans from Harbor Freight are the cat’s pajamas. I must have a dozen of them. They hold just enough anmo for a comp, moderate round count class, or structured range session. They also hold two G-Code Bang Boxes perfectly if you want to bring two seperate types of ammo in the same can.