Heavyopp

My wife and I really like the Warner area -- It's probably an hour south of Jackson We liked it so much that we bought 51 acres with the intention to build a log home and move away from this rat race we call home Warner is a good compromise between being away from it all and still having civilization close by -- concord is a 20 minute drive Warner has supermarket, 2 major gas stations, dunking donuts, subway, Mcdonalds, and plenty of small shops and restaurants -- Drive 6 minutes from all this and I have 51 acres of wooded goodness -- you'd never know all the civilization was right around the corner Come off the property and make a left on 101 and you have Lake sunapee -- I believe its the 2nd largest lake in NH -- another 20 minute ride I don't get up there nearly enough -- just waiting for the day we can say goodbye to this money sucking state and leave here permanently -- I'll need to work but there is still plenty going on up there that I'm not too concerned -- I'm sure I'll find something to earn an income once I get motivated...

Those rest stops on 91 up north smell like urine in the summer -- they are just a parking lot, no buildings -- everyone just pees on the blacktop

I take this route pretty regularly -- Just follow the federal laws with the guns till your in NH Tapan zee to 684 to 84 all the way thru conneticut to the mass pike which is 90 -- your in NY for about 30 minutes about 5 minutes on the mass pike is a very nice rest stop and it's about the 4 hour mark -- From there I only go 1 exit to worchester rt 290 to 190 to 13 which I take all the way up into NH My destination when I take this route is New Boston -- usually lay over a day there at my sisters house then carry on to Warner, NH where I have some land to get away from it all

I expect my assessment to go up 100% -- I'm assessed at $149,000 -- Last time I was appraised back 4 or 5 years ago I was $285,000 which is what I paid 15 years ago If my assessment goes up even 50% and they try to raise my property taxes 50% I won't be able to afford to live here. I'm not sure how that all works with reassessment and how they figure out property taxes after that but I hope they make the value to tax charged rate lower but I doubt it

Tell me about it -- Surprise sewer bill over Christmas -- with 3 weeks to pay it The town did issue a letter stating we could pay half on the 31st and half on Feb. 1st I truly expect the bill for 2016 before the May 1st payment deadline in the ordinance They think we're made of money -- I can't just keep bleeding cash Now there are rumors of a property tax re-assesment coming sometime before 2019 -- I'm already at $12,000 per year not including the new sewer tax

OK Kirk -- Thanks for your thoughts -- I understand that no one goes to the meetings -- I'm guilty for sure So after reading that, you don't think that section 2 in the meeting minutes linked has any relevance: SECTION TWO. The effective date of these changes shall be January 1, 2016 upon adoption of this Amendment to the Ordinance and shall apply to all sewer user charges under Article III, commencing with the calculated usage, flow and/or charges reflected in billings to users dispatched thereafter. How about the part of the ordinance where they say bills will be due May 1st and November 1st -- Its spelled out when they are due -- then they send a bill on Dec 6th 2016 due in 3 weeks Dec 31 2016 -- any grounds there to pay them by May 1st? I do truly expect the 2016 sewer bill to come early in 2017 -- maybe the reason for them to "rush " a 2015 billing period -- still not following the ordinance as to when payment is due My house water usage is high -- I didn't realize it -- From what I understand there where 300 plus residential sewer use bills that went out in a town of 4,200 residences Most of these houses are on slabs with maybe 900 square feet of living space - Small lots 50 X 100 -- I happen to be on the larger side for homes in the town, definitely have one of the top 10 bigger lots in town -- 1 acre My bill is $563 for the year -- not a ton of money -- I'm just mad at how they went about it

SECTION TWO. The effective date of these changes shall be January 1, 2016 upon adoption of this Amendment to the Ordinance and shall apply to all sewer user charges under Article III, commencing with the calculated usage, flow and/or charges reflected in billings to users dispatched thereafter. Calculated usage thereafter --- They are just plain stealing from us -- not even following their own rules The bill is very clear -- Billing period 01/01/15 to 12/31/15

The are billing us for the entire year of 2015

http://www.middlesexboro-nj.gov/vertical/sites/%7B03D024DB-3011-40C3-9B1E-A8D6804DB773%7D/uploads/4-19-16_Special_Meeting_Minutes.pdf A link to the meeting minutes if you care to read...

Middlesex did make provisions for this in the ordinance but they say a meter on sewage/ waste water -- not incoming water They also say that if you do this you must pay them $100 yearly for an annual inspection

Guys -- help me understand this -- This is copied from the meeting minutes where the town council held a special meeting to approve the new sewer ordinance -- nothing else but the sewer ordinance was discussed at the meeting ​Section one is the new re-written ordinance -- section 2 is below -- SECTION TWO. The effective date of these changes shall be January 1, 2016 upon adoption of this Amendment to the Ordinance and shall apply to all sewer user charges under Article III, commencing with the calculated usage, flow and/or charges reflected in billings to users dispatched thereafter.

Thanks for the info -- I have no intention of ever drilling a well myself -- and my well casing is full of concrete done before I ever moved here

Federally illegal to drill your own well? Even those shallow well heads you hammer into the ground with the pipe? Anyway I wasn't looking to drill a well just reclaim one that might not have been so sealed up

Funny thing is when I moved to this house 18 years ago there was a capped well -- One day I happened to see a well truck across the street at a relatives home to the previous owner of my house I walked over and introduced myself, asked about my capped well -- Figured I'd knock off the capped portion and hook up for irrigation -- Guy said the state got involved, forced them to cap the contaminated well and sent an inspector to watch them fill the entire casing up with cement -- I forget how deep it was but he said it's concrete, all the way down to the bottom

It's not the ordinance I'm questioning as legal or not -- It's the way they went back and charged me for using water that I was allowed to use when I was using it -- In my eyes it should be from the day the ordinance became law and after -- I can't change the amount of water I used and I was allowed to use it Not so sure -- can't explain here but -- source is pretty reliable Exactly my thoughts -- Passing an ordinance is how its done -- If I missed the ordinance thats on me going forward -- Going back into previous years is just rotten and I bet illegal I didn't break the law when I used the water back in 2015 why am I penalized for it now? exactly Right -- you drive down the road at 35 mph -- next week they make the speed limit 25 -- then they give tickets to everyone who drove down at 35 mph last week... This can't be legal

Interesting -- The house across the street from me is on septic -- Only one on the block -- sewer line runs right in front of the house

They forced you to hook up -- couldn't keep the septic system?

We are friendly with some of the women who work in borough hall -- they didn't even know this was coming...

They made notice -- I'm sure of that -- just did it in a way that nobody noticed it so they wouldn't come to the meeting and fight them -- Ever read the legal notices section of the newspaper?

I'm an irrigation contractor -- I do have an irrigation system -- but I rarely use it -- Hate the water bill -- I did have a spike in 2015 for sept/oct -- growing seed I do agree I use a ton of water but never realized it till now -- a very generous shower head has to be the big culprit -- unless my meter is cheating me I also changed a pipe around for the kitchen sink -- took 90 seconds for hot water to get there -- now takes 30 seconds -- that should save a few gallons

Rumor has it that Middlesex shares a main sewer line with Piscataway -- The piscataway line to the treatment center runs through Middlesex -- Middlesex also dumps their waste into that line because it's there -- It's rumored that piscataway sent a bill to middlesex for use of their sewer line on our land, which they've never done before -- Its something like this from what I understand I didn't realize how much water I use -- Got billed for 170,000 gallons -- I added up my bills, that is what went thru my water meter according to NJ american water -- certainly not went down the sanitary sewer -- Township doesn't even account for the water you drink let alone wash your car, water your lawn and garden... -- charged for every drop As soon as I got the bill I ordered a new shower head -- I have a tankless water heater here in the house -- We never run out of hot water and the shower time shows that -- 4 adults taking at least a 10 minute shower with a shower head putting out 5 maybe 7 gallons a minute -- thats a lot of shower water -- Unfortunately I didn't test the shower head before replacing it -- I'll see how the 2.5 gallon head effects my next water bill -- My guess is it's cut in half Point is I could have done that a year ago, if the town just sent the letter about the new sewer tax back in april, when they adopted the new ordinance Rotten bastards -- every single council member voted yes on this -- It's in the minutes of the special meeting on March 29 2016 on the middlesex borough website -- Also rumored that the sewer movement was spearheaded by a local businessman -- a bar and restaurant owner in town -- He was tired of the businesses supporting the sewer costs alone -- my guess is that not many residents ever reached the 300,000 gallon requirement previously -- save the business, screw the residents

I can't imagine the legislators siding with us common folk... but I guess it's worth a shot Bill Spadea -- the morning guy -- that definitely might be worth something

This has been bothering me for 2 weeks now, need some opinions -- tell me if I'm mad at nothing or should this be taken further I live in Middlesex borough been a resident for 20 years -- Wednesday Dec 7th I get a letter in the mail from Middlesex Borough -- To my surprise it's a sewer usage bill -- The 1st one in 2 decades -- Billing period Jan 1, 2015 to Dec 31, 2015 There is only 1 page of paper in this envelope -- Says Sewer Bill -- Gives my usage, and says I owe 563.00 Due Dec 31 2016 - It also says to appeal contact... nothing else That night I look up the town ordinances -- Nothing new -- same sewer ordinance last edited 2013 Next day I call the town, They are swamped with calls about this new bill -- No answers, no appeal process given, nothing, Like it was a surprise to the women who work at the borough December 13 a letter finally comes, with a partial explanation of what is going on -- time for me to investigate For all of time middlesex has had no sewer charges for residential properties who consumed less that 75,000 gallons of water per quarter -- thats 300,000 gallons a year -- a huge amount of water -- and how it's always been as long as I have been alive March 29, 2016 the borough council holds a special meeting -- decides to change the maximum you can use before being charged to 120,000 gallons a year -- New ordinance goes into law in early april -- the new ordinance says that you will be billed based on your previous years water usage as reported by the water company -- best I can tell -- this ordinance is posted on the borough website sometime after Dec 10, 2016 So here is what gets me going -- I'm pretty sure what they did is not legal -- and its certainly rotten Back in 2015, I was allowed to use 300,000 gallons of water before being charged an extra sewer usage fee -- They told me I could, and this is how it's been forever On march 29th 2016 they changed the rules -- but they changed them for 2015 -- they decided that if you used over 120,000 gallons in 2015 you where now going to be charged a sewer use bill -- How is this legal? I followed the rules for 2015 and am now being penalized for it They also demand payment by Dec 31 2016 -- The newly posted ordinance clearly states that billing dates will be May 1st and Nov 1st of each year This can't be legal -- I'm so pissed I can't even think rationally about it, and I certainly can't write about what is going thru my head here on this forum I hope you guys can understand this, Talk to me, Am I crazy for being mad -- should I fight? Go to court -- write the newspapers, 101.5??? Has anyone been through something like this with their town? Results? Thoughts? Can you beat a local government in court? Is it worth it? Help!!!

Both of you keep using time/location as the reason to pay more -- I live 3 minutes from middlebrook if the traffic lights are in my favor -- if I drive 3 minutes in the opposite direction I'm at a FFL who charges $25/$15 and tax Now efingers could be 3 minutes in another direction if traffic and lights cooperate -- I think they where something like $90 just for the transfer -- my guess is the only transfers they did where those who found convenience way more important than price

$64.20 and you think thats reasonable??? Sounds like there's different pricing for walk ins vs. regular customers -- I guess thats common for most dealers I have friends that are regulars at Middlebrook and I know they don't pay that -- and if they do they certainly don't tell me