bhunted

Interesting. See? We, (I), am learning something. Thank you. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Gotchya.... I can only suspect, like everything else, money.... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Dunno if you read the blurb I posted above from Wilson regarding MIM... Maybe you can elaborate on that. I'm no metallurgist, but willing to chat about it and possibly learn. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Rick, you know I respect you and I consider you my friend. But sometimes, the fine lines between your sentences makes me scratch my head. First, I never said I don't believe you. Your observations warrant your opinion. What gets me scratching is your percentage of seen failures between 2 brands and not giving one the benefit of the doubt. But no problem. I buy it. By all means, elaborate on Sig vs Kimber... I have no problem with factual dialog no matter what you or others think. I love learning. As far as dissertations every time a subject comes up, well...your willingness to answer people's questions redundantly over and over rather than just point them to a very informant thread, ie slings, flashlights, etc. show me you -are- willing to repeat things. You are guilty on numerous occasions. Too many to count. Psychologically I know why you do that. You ARE passionate in what you believe. You share your real world experiences and I think that is great. I am passionate about my beliefs too, but always open minded as well. Last sentence....hmm...a forum, not a collage class. Read my paragraph just above this sentence starting with As far as... again... And wasn't it you a long time ago who said to me, I should try help people to understand and not give up due to getting frustrated? Its our duty? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Hell, some Kimbers have plastic main spring housings and work fine. Technology always changes. What use to fail has been improved. Do companies cut corners? Sure.... But I'd like to think they would not risk someones health or life. If technology never changed, we'd never have any poly guns. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

A comment from Wilson regarding mim.... One other thing I forgot to address. MIM parts. A company that I will not name gave the MIM parts a bad name because they had a bad batch of MIM parts. This was many years ago. Since then remarkable things have happened. MIM parts are extremely dense and very exact. They are much less prone to wear and breakage than a factory Colt, Spfg. etc. part. This is why we use them in our CQB's, etc. Although not quite as hard as our tool steel parts, they will last a very long time. This is why we can still quarante our total gun, including the MIM parts, for life. The tool steel parts are actually overkill. The MIM parts last for life (I know of one gun that has over 100,000 rounds thru it and the trigger pull feels the same as it did when new) therefore I guess you could say the tool steel parts lasts for a lifetime and ½. We use the tool steel parts in our full custom guns. (These are the ones that cost from $2800.00 up) Our full custom guns, Stealth, Tactical Elite, Super Grade and Tactical Super Grade, are not for everyone because of price. They are intended for someone that can afford the very best we can do. They [tool steel] actually won't last any longer, shoot any straighter or be more dependable than our CQB's, Protectors and Classics, but we spend many extra hours in fitting and prepping them for a perfect cosmetic handgun as well as a great shooter. And because of this, we use the tool steel parts that take longer to fit. Again, all of us guys here, including Bill Wilson use the very same MIM parts in our guns. And we shoot a bunch! Once installed and fit, no one can tell the difference in the feel of the trigger pull with either type of parts. Ok, I'm done with my book. Hope this helps too. Just didn't want you all to believe everything you read from self appointed experts. Frank Robbins Wilson Combat Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Here is an old post from the THR forums. It talks about MIM and the like. http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-3725.html Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Blanket statements usually come in short blurbs. Just look at any review. When someone is pist, the whole company sux. But when a statement is formed like that, at least show why. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I agree. There is quite a bit of it too. I've been reading all kinds of articles last couple days and its a hot topic. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

This is what I'm looking for. Keep it coming. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

So you are saying that you've seen 3 and that is just cause to damn them? You just mentioned its anecdotal but isn't that your story too? Numbers would be hard to come by, but we can try surmise. No reason why we can't talk about it. Is it such a problem that we cannot point out issues and what caused them? Because quite frankly, a lot of what I've been reading is user error of what consist of bad loads among other things. But in any event, lets try expose why and what happen that may have caused it. It has already been pointed out that hierarchy people forced a company down a bad road. Lets expand on that. For what its worth, your already damning the subject but 20 flavors of snow is somewhat ok? I'm trying to have decent conversation here. If it bothers anyone, please do not partake. Maybe we'll even learn something for a change. So lets try it. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

This why I started the other thread. Go over there and continue. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Btw, I enjoy this type of conversation N4.... But I think I will start another thread. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Ok gang. I'm starting this thread in lieu of the rants about Kimber. Please keep it civil and factual. Our last posts there involved N4 and myself. I'd like to keep it going. No tirades. Just good factual conversation. Antagonists need not apply. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Btw, I enjoy this type of conversation N4.... But I think I will start another thread. We raped this one enough and again, I apologize to the OP. Give me a few minutes and I'll start a thread called Catastrophic Failures... Ok? Carry on there please. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

What they doing to Sig? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Very cool. What kind of plane you in? Model, etc?

Sorry, you're still not getting it. So this will be my last post till someone gets it, or not. So let me rephrase it. I do want to apologize for sending this post off on a tangent though. I'm not defending Kimber. My rant is regarding a blanket statement. I've said it several times. Yet people skate in a different direction. Comment something to the effect that Kimber can't make 1911s for shit is my rant subject. If you want to educate people, especially the new or people not versed in a brand, elaborate why. Because I would love to know. Not just some dumb fooking statement. I get so tired of people throwing in their 3 word comments without any reasoning, its sickening. Bashing of any product without reason is ludicrous. FYI, there are HKs I wouldn't buy, Kimbers too. I'm not a fan of Glocks. But I won't tell people they are shit and worthless because they are not. You won't catch me interjecting a bland comment that a products is not worth shit. I tried to get yaz to realize it several posts ago. I have no problem you not liking Kimber and not owning one. Show me where I tried shoving one down anyone's gullet. I never push anyone to any brand. I've come to the conclusions over the years that guns are a personal preference. Like Harley's vs Hondas, etc. But these forums should be educational among other things. This, "I'll just spew shit in for the helluvit and see if I can get some ire", is bs. That's that. Don't get it now, then I don't know what to tell you. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I guess you are all missing my point. But, TETO.... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Oh...lol Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

They will be releasing 2... First the 250 then rumor has it, the 227. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

So? Better than 12 pages of people talking about snow....

I don't take it personally. But it's like product reviews. When something does well, nobody says shit. But when a couple people have some bad experiences, it's the worse product of their life time. Blanket statememnts are unjust. Even statements that one person witnessed 3 catastrophic failures. There are a lot of reasons there are bad failures. But the ratio of good product in the field out weighs the bad. And that's anything. When there are 1000'sf models out there that run like a champ, a few are to be expected. Kimber sales have sky rocketed. As I said before, it's hard to fook up a 1911 in the first place. Now what I have read on an average of a lot of failures is people using ammo like home loads, or crap they shouldn't. Then when that damn thing blows up, it's the guns fault. Without statistics, I would not blame Kimber guns themselves for failures. Especially when there are too few vs the many out there. When a statement comes out how they make crap, that pisses me off. Why would anyone judge anything that way without doing an investigation? Like I said. Go talk to the veteran Kimber owners out there. They'll tell ya. You also know I'm a Colt 1911 fan. I have the one when each man put many hours into it before they started rolling them off the line like robots on steroids. Eveyone claimed that their quality went down. They even mentioned going bankrupt or one of the chapters I forget. They are still producing them like mad men. High and low end modes. ALL over $1K... Yet people are still buying them. If you were to ask me what 1911 should I'd buy, I'd ask you a couple questions. What will you use it for, what is your cost limits. If mid range was Ok, then Kimber, Colt, etc. Low range, SA, SW, etc... Hi end, Nighthawk, Les Baers, Wilson, etc... No limits? Cabot.... Think about the architecture of a 1911. Not really many parts and most are still made of steel. What little may go wrong will have finger pointing like, "Oh! I payed good money for that gun and it went poop:... Big deal. Make it right. They have tight tolerences when imho give them great accuracy and durability. Anyhow... TETO... And now for your enjoyment, a few for our haters... Glocks: Yes, even HKS: Colt: ...and so on....

Children I'm going to start a thread with every beloved brand gun that has had failures of any kind especially catastrophic ones and we'll see who has the bragging rights. My guess, nobody because they all have them... Soon as my research is complete, I will post it. Then the haters can all sit and cry...

Prefer the 227 myself. But the 250 was shown at shot show so the 227 will be some time after that...