Bushmaster1313

The database is something required by the directive and/or the NJ Supreme Court decision adopting the Directive. It is a good thing.

So this is still within the 30 days for approval, denial or a hearing. Anyone have an application actually at a court for 30 days with no action? When do you have proof that it was received?

When was it received by Court?

When was the application actually received by the Sussex court? Any word from the Sussex court as to what to do?

Has anyone gone more than 30 days with their PD approved application at Superior Court? at Middlesex Superior Court? if so, what were you told, what did you do?

I share your frustration But until an application sits in the courthouse more than 30 days without action the law is not being disregarded.

Judges are far from saints. But in general they are overworked and a good one is not paid as much as if they were in the private sector. Without respect for the judiciary civilization falls apart.

Your PD approved about 23 days after references received and well with 60 days of the initial application. PD did what they were supposed to do. You are in your 7th day of 30 at Middlesex Superior Court.

I reject any thought of this

The judge has no independent investigatory powers. So the judge asks the prosecutor’s office to investigate. Under the Directive the prosecutor has 14 days to report back to the judge, and assuming the prosecutor got the application immediately upon its presentation to the Superior Court the judge then has 16 days to appove the application or hold a hearing. After the hearing the judge has 14 days to render a decision. Of course, this system was set up to deal with applications for employment as an armed security guard and not a post-Bruen world. But it is what it is

There is a possible as applied Due Process violation. 1. Statute says applicant must get a permit to carry outside the home. 2. Applicant does everything the statute requires. 3. The State fails to issue applicant a permit for no legitimate reason. 4. Applicant gets charged for violating a law that was impossible for applicant to follow while exercising a Right guaranteed by the Second Amendment. This could be argued as an “As Applied” Due Process violation, and would have a strong chance of success if considered fairly on the merits. But of course, applicant would be in a world of hurt for the years it would take to get this resolved, and success is not a given.

Nobody knows what happens after 30 days in the courthouse with no action by the judge. But I know one thing for certain: I do not want to get stopped carrying a gun without a written permit and have to rely on arguing to the Police Officer, prosecutor, judge, jury or appeals court that I should not be convicted because the judge waited more than 30 days to sign my permit.

Supreme Court of New Jersey adopted the Directive making it mandatory. If there is one thing Supreme Court Justices get uppity about it’s having lower court judges not abide by their mandates.

Parade permits and permits to assemble are constitutional if routine and administrative.

Yes And to avoid setting bad precedent —Whoever does it first had better do it right the first time.

Here is a quote from a case about mandamus in New Jersey: ” A writ of mandamus is an appropriate remedy "(1) to compel specific action when the duty is ministerial and wholly free from doubt, and (2) to compel the exercise of discretion, but not in a specific manner." Vas v. Roberts, 418 N.J. Super. 509, 522 (App. Div. 2011) (quoting Loigman v. Twp. Comm. of Middletown, 297 N.J. Super. 287, 299 (App. Div. 1997)).“ In the case of carry permits, I would say that if there is no doubt, the Judge could be compelled to approve the permit, and if there is doubt the judge could be compelled to hold a hearing and issue a decision within 14 days thereafter. Note: Getting mandamus against a judge can take a very long time.

If true, this reminds me of the bad old days in my town when it took 6 months of showing up to inquire at the police station before the Local Police Chief would sign a permit to purchase a handgun. Frankly, I have no idea what to do if a county judge decides to just sit and do nothing after receipt of a police department approved application. In other situations a person can go to the next higher level and bring an action in Mandamus to force the judge’s hand. Any such action should be taken with great care and planning and with the advice of an attorney experienced in such matters. As to Middlesex County — So far all we hear is crickets.

Do not do anything that could be charged as brandishing. Here in the Peoples Republik of New Jerseystan comrades would trip over their own feet rushing to report a handgun gun holstered on the hip as brandishing, and whether convicted or not you will be in a world of hurt and your career and employment prospects could easily be ruined.

As of Friday September 9 no permits signed by Middlesex Superior Court.

With respect to search and seizure and the exclusion of evidence under the Fourth Amendment, there is something known as the “Automobile Exception.” If a driver is stopped, the U.S. Supreme Court allows the interior of the vehicle to be searched because of the special risk an automobile creates for the police officer. If I was a zealous attorney representing the state in favor of restricting carry permits to exclude while operating or riding in a car, I would argue that the Second Amendment also has an “Automobile Exception,” and I might win that argument in court.

Bruen said state cannot require justifiable need to get a carry permit. Bruen also said that if the Second Amendment is implicated by a law the court must see if the law passes muster under the text of the Second Amendment and the history of gun regulation during the time the Second Amendment and the Fourteenth Amendments were ratified. A Judge could analyze the text and the history and determine that carry permits restrict to no carry in a car was Constitutional. The judge might be found wrong on appeal but not in contempt of the Supreme Court.

Of course they will be challenged and they might eventually be held to violate the Second Amendment In the meantime, anyone nabbed for violating those restrictions will be in a world of hurt

IIRC the statute says that the judge can put any restrictions on the permit that the judge thinks appropriate. If true, only violate the judge’s restrictions if you are okay with three hots and a cot and all that goes with a felony conviction.

Edison Very professional and responsive

This is my timeline August 19 I get notification that my approved application is being sent to Middlesex Superior Court August 23 The date I assume my application arrived August 26 I inquire by e-mail about my application and receive response that my application was received September 1 Money Order cashed September 8 Today and I have heard nothing since August 26 September 12-21 My guess as to when I will hear something from the Court September 22 will be 30 days at the Court and if I hear nothing I will politely inquire about status Your Mileage May Vary