17 minutes ago, EdF said:

There are few people who actually understand what their rights are, what is being done to crush those rights or what may be required to retain or recover those rights.  The blissfully ignorant rarely provide good or sound advice.

That, sir, is something we can certainly agree upon!! 

13 minutes ago, EdF said:

Where the hell do you think that they were changing price?  Paper tags on the boxes?  They were doing it in the god damned storefront software exactly like I was talking about in my post.

No, I don't own software in the company.  I don't even give a shit about the company.  My complaint here from the very beginning has been about the Texas AG and freakin' Texas law.

What the f got the bug up your ass about Cheaper Than Dirt?  Did some talk mean to you on the phone?  You haven't bought from them in 13 f'ing years.  Why are you so invested?

I am so invested because I truly believe they got what they deserve. I am all for free market. However, when a company arbitrarily SIGNIFICANTLY raises prices on a product that is NOT a luxury item during a shortage, to a point where only the wealthy can afford it, that pisses me off, regardless the company or the product.

CTD, along with other companies, have been on my blacklist for various reason. I'm sure others have their own blacklist. And it makes me very happy when a company that is on my blacklist got caught for the very reason that put them on my blacklist in the first place. I would be just as happy if DSG got into trouble for stabbing the 2A community in the back with their anti-2A lobbyists, but that is only a dream I guess.

45 minutes ago, Nu2gunz said:

Raising the price 400% means only a very select population would be able to afford that price. And since it's deemed "essential" are you okay with that? If only the top 5% could afford milk because the price is inflated, would that be cool with you?

Because they chose to do business out of TX where doing that is illegal. They should move to a different state if they are unhappy with the Laws in their state. Isn't that what we are told about the gun laws in NJ? Move out!

I am fine with the market determining the price of goods to be purchased and sold.

Some if not all dairy farmers pour milk out due to low price/demand - 

Dairy farmers forced to dump milk as demand drops amid coronavirus closures

“You can't shut down cows. You can't turn them off like a faucet,” one farmer tells NBC News about the sudden drop in demand for dairy products.

The good the bad and the ugly of market forces - demand and a lack of supply creates a higher cost for the item (I am far from an economics theory major) -

I have sold 500Rnd bricks of .22 at 85$ plus a brick and this say some guy is giving me 200$ for 1000 rounds of it...  I have the SUPPLY - he has the DEMAND - I set the price - he likes it he buys it - he doesn't someone else will.

Texas is wrong - they have no right to impede on any companies ability to due business and or set market rates for items - and sorry AMMO Is NOT essential..........  nice try.

 

That is the problem with people - they cherry pick their stances when it suits them, in lieu of being intellectually honest...

When you have a GOV determining what is essential and what is not - that creates problem and a tiered market/society.

 

Like Mike Rowe now says - 

 

Mike Rowe on coronavirus lockdowns: 'There's a new word for 40 million people in this country: Non-essential'

'I've seen firsthand that everybody is essential to somebody,' 'Dirty Jobs' host says

Some

4 minutes ago, MartyZ said:

I am so invested because I truly believe they got what they deserve. I am all for free market. However, when a company arbitrarily SIGNIFICANTLY raises prices on a product that is NOT a luxury item during a shortage, to a point where only the wealthy can afford it, that pisses me off, regardless the company or the product.

CTD, along with other companies, have been on my blacklist for various reason. I'm sure others have their own blacklist. And it makes me very happy when a company that is on my blacklist got caught for the very reason that put them on my blacklist in the first place. I would be just as happy if DSG got into trouble for stabbing the 2A community in the back with their anti-2A lobbyists, but that is only a dream I guess.

If you support the Texas law, you are not "all for free market" . . . Which, you might notice, is what I said in my very first post on this thread.  So . . . thanks for agreeing with me.  

14 minutes ago, USRifle30Cal said:

Texas is wrong - they have no right to impede on any companies ability to due business and or set market rates for items - and sorry AMMO Is NOT essential..........  nice try.

Where would the 2A be without ammo? If ammo is not essential then what about the 2A?

In my book the 2A is very essential and last I checked a gun without ammo is just a fancy club.

13 minutes ago, EdF said:

If you support the Texas law, you are not "all for free market" . . . 

I'm sorry to say, but if you aren't in support of the Texas Law, it is you who are not for a free market. My family comes from a Communist country. You know what they did there? Inflated prices to the point where it was impossible for the average person to afford "essentials". Which is why there were lines for milk, bread, flour, and toilet paper. They would inflate prices, liquidate the market, and then drop prices again when there wasn't enough for everyone. So if you were at the end of the line, and they ran out, you didn't eat that day. And certain people starved because of it. That's how they controlled the economy. Where do you come from? Don't think that because you think you have an altruistic stance, it is actually altruistic. 

10 minutes ago, EdF said:

If you support the Texas law, you are not "all for free market" . . . Which, you might notice, is what I said in my very first post on this thread.  So . . . thanks for agreeing with me.  

Free market should make allowances for emergencies to make sure everyone can afford what they need. I didn't see anyone complaining when NJ hit stores for gauging water prices or gas stations for gauges gas prices during Sandy.

1 minute ago, MartyZ said:

Where would the 2A be without ammo? If ammo is not essential then what about the 2A?

In my book the 2A is very essential and last I checked a gun without ammo is just a fancy club.

Really . . . I suppose that the first amendment makes newspapers essential?

Ammo isn't "essential" . . . The Second Amendment doesn't make guns "essential" . . . It doesn't require that every has or should be given a gun.  This is besides the fact that the Constitution prevents the government from infringing on your rights.  It doesn't require a private business to cater to your wants or needs.  It doesn't even require that arms that you have a right to are affordable.  While I will expect an argument that having the government TAX them into being unaffordable that's a different argument because that would be the government enacting the restriction.

I can keep explaining it but I can't make you understand it.  What you need to do is slow down and read what people are saying.  

5 minutes ago, EdF said:

This is besides the fact that the Constitution prevents the government from infringing on your rights. 

The Government infringes on our Constitutional rights all the time. This year especially. And every damn day in NJ concerning the 2nd Amendment. 

8 minutes ago, EdF said:

Really . . . I suppose that the first amendment makes newspapers essential?

Ammo isn't "essential" . . . The Second Amendment doesn't make guns "essential" . . . It doesn't require that every has or should be given a gun.  This is besides the fact that the Constitution prevents the government from infringing on your rights.  It doesn't require a private business to cater to your wants or needs.  It doesn't even require that arms that you have a right to are affordable.  While I will expect an argument that having the government TAX them into being unaffordable that's a different argument because that would be the government enacting the restriction.

I can keep explaining it but I can't make you understand it.  What you need to do is slow down and read what people are saying.  

you should really take your own advice about reading what others are saying, and don't try to EXPLAIN anything to me. I didn't ask for your interpretation of what you think is right or wrong.

I started this thread to show MY satisfaction with what is happening. You don't like it? Fine, that is your opinion and you have a right to it. But you trying to EXPLAIN anything to me is neither your place nor is it appreciated. You have no idea of my background, my knowledge, or my experience so please refrain from EXPLAINING anything to me!

42 minutes ago, MartyZ said:

Where would the 2A be without ammo? If ammo is not essential then what about the 2A?

In my book the 2A is very essential and last I checked a gun without ammo is just a fancy club.

Ad Absurdum - we all know that the right to keep and bar arms as codified and affirmed in the USCONN - is a God given right as such that is essential.  We are not talking about whether the right of the people is essential or not - we know it is and not germane to the conversation.

However, being that the 'arms' are a commodity - they are driven by market forces and price of that market.

There is a price point for all 'arms' - heck I bought a S&W SD9VE - some would say that is a low priced clunker - but hey it is a shooter and accurate, there is a market price for that.  Then there is the Wilson Combat 'tactical whiz bang whatever' at 3k plus - there is a market for that as well.  Then the wholly overpriced colt pythons etc....  heck I want a Thompson Subgun - and I don't have a spare $ 25k + lying around - the market drives that price.......

The point is that the supply/demand curve for all items should not be messed with - once the GOV (local/state/federal) starts putting their hands in more and more things all they do is EFF stuff up.........

Let CTD set an outrageous price for ammo - guess what they will end up having a surplus that wont move, and then they will drop their price and it will sell etc.

 

See all fixed.................... 

 

 

What the Texas AG should be more worried about is how he is going to protect the states citizens from the Federal ATF overreach over arm braces and not what CTD is charging for 9mm ammo......... !

 

7 minutes ago, Nu2gunz said:

I'm sorry to say, but if you aren't in support of the Texas Law, it is you who are not for a free market. My family comes from a Communist country. You know what they did there? Inflated prices to the point where it was impossible for the average person to afford "essentials". Which is why there were lines for milk, bread, flour, and toilet paper. They would inflate prices, liquidate the market, and then drop prices again when there wasn't enough for everyone. So if you were at the end of the line, and they ran out, you didn't eat that day. And certain people starved because of it. That's how they controlled the economy. Where do you come from? Don't think that because you think you have an altruistic stance, it is actually altruistic. 

No, no, no, no, no . . . First, you need to learn the difference between government action and the actions of citizens.  The problem wasn't the government inflating prices.  The problem causing shortages is government interference in the market.  It doesn't matter if the government sets the prices high or low, the result is shortages.  Read Hayek.  Read Friedman.  Read Thomas Sowell.  Read the recently deceased Walter Williams.

Benevolent Socialism is still Socialism and that doesn't work.

4 hours ago, EdF said:

No, no, no, no, no . . . First, you need to learn the difference between government action and the actions of citizens.  The problem wasn't the government inflating prices.  The problem causing shortages is government interference in the market.  It doesn't matter if the government sets the prices high or low, the result is shortages.  Read Hayek.  Read Friedman.  Read Thomas Sowell.  Read the recently deceased Walter Williams.

Benevolent Socialism is still Socialism and that doesn't work.

Dude, you can't be serious. I don't need to read it. My family lived it. Wow. Okay.

27 minutes ago, MartyZ said:

you should really take your own advice about reading what others are saying, and don't try to EXPLAIN anything to me. I didn't ask for your interpretation of what you think is right or wrong.

I started this thread to show MY satisfaction with what is happening. You don't like it? Fine, that is your opinion and you have a right to it. But you trying to EXPLAIN anything to me is neither your place nor is it appreciated. You have no idea of my background, my knowledge, or my experience so please refrain from EXPLAINING anything to me!

Ahhhh . . . So, now it's MY fault that I disagree with you . . . You didn't have to respond to me but you did . . . This forum is here for all of us and that includes this thread.  You're not the only one reading anything that I post and I'll "explain" anything that I want.  You don't have to pay any attention at all.

 

13 minutes ago, Nu2gunz said:

Dude, you can't be serious. I don't need to read it. My family lived it. Wow. Okay, I'm out. 

I'm absolutely serious . . . but, I can come right back and tell you not to tell me how our country works.

Get it?

2 hours ago, Nu2gunz said:

we agree to adhere to the Laws where we agree to live.

Much the same way we all click "agree" when we load up software or register for internet service. buy a cell phone or use Google.  We agree because we don't have any other choice.  And to not "agree" will exclude one from the opportunity to participate in, or use something that has become necessary to everyday life.

We don't agree.  We simply accept because there is no other practical choice.

57 minutes ago, MartyZ said:

Free market should make allowances for emergencies to make sure everyone can afford what they need. I didn't see anyone complaining when NJ hit stores for gauging water prices or gas stations for gauges gas prices during Sandy.

The market DOES make allowances for emergencies and the government stocks up on things like water and food for when they are needed.  The government doesn't have a supply of bullets for the citizens to use in an emergency.  The bullets that they stockpile are for their own use.  

There were plenty of people complaining about the stores and gas stations were beat up during Sandy and for the real estate bailouts for those how didn't have sufficient insurance.  The fact that you didn't hear it is irrelevant.  

Again . . . I'm being consistent here . . . I want the government the hell out of the way . . . I don't make exceptions when their interference helps me.

If you want to understand why this is a problem make it personal . . . What do you do for a living?  Should the government be able to tell you how much money you are allowed to earn?  Should the government be able to force doctors or construction workers to help clean up after a storm?  Keep in mind, when the government forces you to do something or forces you to restrict your income, they do so standing behind a line of their own guns.  

This is the root of the issue.

When the government forces, at gun point, a privately owned business to adhere to a prescribed price structure, they are only one step away from forcing you to do the same thing.  Maybe even closer than that.

https://fee.org/articles/price-gouging-during-disasters-is-actually-a-good-thing/

 

I've posted these before in other threads, maybe they will help here ...

 

1 hour ago, EdF said:

I'm absolutely serious . . . but, I can come right back and tell you not to tell me how our country works.

Get it?

No, I don't. And I encourage you to let it go. We can agree to disagree and move on. Shall we? Or do you need to have the last word and be right about everything? 

59 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said:

We don't agree.  We simply accept because there is no other practical choice.

Accept...agree...potato...potahtoe...

5 hours ago, RUTGERS95 said:

meh, unless it's essentials, gov't shouldn't do this as the mkt corrects itself.  If you are upset at their prices, shop elsewhere is what I say

even if they're essential goods, the free market should have free reign to set prices as it sees fit.  gotta take the (very small) bad with the (much greater) good.

5 hours ago, Nu2gunz said:

I don't agree with the Laws here in NJ, but as a civilized society, we agree to adhere to the Laws where we agree to live. If you knowingly and willingly break the Law, you shouldn't get busted? Is that what you're saying? You can certainly argue the 2nd Amendment in court, but you will likely lose. 

This isn't about just ammo in TX. If you went into a 7-11 in TX and Milk was suddenly $20 a gallon, would you be okay with that? Food, Drink and Ammo are considered "essential" in TX. Rightfully so. Do you want Government protection from price gauging on anything or nothing?

If supply was so sufficiently collapsed that $20/gallon was needed to control demand, I'd be buying my own fucking cow and just getting my milk from the source.  restrictions on free market pricing (not to include collusion, that anti-free market) do NOTHING but hurt us in the long run.   They're the camel's nose under the tent.

Also for the record, I've never bought from CTD ever... as they've never been cheaper on anything I've wanted.

2 hours ago, Nu2gunz said:

No, I don't. And I encourage you to let it go. We can agree to disagree and move on. Shall we? Or do you need to have the last word and be right about everything? 

Accept...agree...potato...potahtoe...

Respectfully, you're the one who's been the most contentious in this thread.  You're convinced you're "right", but when you get strong counter-arguments you get sensitive imply that the other guy is the brash one who needs the last word?

It's fine if you want to drop out of an argument, but saying "I'm out' doesn't mean other people need to stop posting.  Particularly when you jump right back in!!!

Deleted

1 hour ago, Sota said:

They're the camel's nose under the tent.

Forgive me, but I have no idea what that means. What does that mean?

Why don't you all just simmer down? It's Friday night... the weekend is stretched out in front of us. If the thread is getting your blood pressure up... back away from the keyboard... go fix the beverage of your choice... and take a little breather, folks! 

[now, imagine the above said in soothing, therapeutic tones... like a Mother Hen clucking around her chicks, ]

Seriously, relax! 

Why for petes sake does every thread descend into arguements ...it is flipping mind boggling !

1 hour ago, USRifle30Cal said:

Why for petes sake does every thread descend into arguements ...it is flipping mind boggling !

Come on. This is the interwebz. I'd be shocked if every discussion DIDN'T devolve into an argument. That's just the way it goes. 

5 hours ago, USRifle30Cal said:

Why for petes sake does every thread descend into arguements ...it is flipping mind boggling !

Because there are people on this forum who know better than everyone else (not to mention smarter, more insightful, better looking, and with poop that doesn't stink), will remind everyone of that "fact," and will argue out their superiority with the other greatest minds on Earth who also don't know when to quit - long after anyone who actually cared about the original topic has left the "conversation."

 

Also, have not shopped at CTD for years - post Newtown. They can price gouge if they want, but they seem to forget that I can also stop buying from them permanently, and that the community has a good memory.

On 12/19/2020 at 8:10 AM, USRifle30Cal said:

Why for petes sake does every thread descend into arguements ...it is flipping mind boggling !

Screw you!

 

Just kidding - Happy New Year, everyone!!!