4 minutes ago, Xtors said:

At the risk of starting a holy war, I think the issue with SERPA holsters is a training issue. If you are indexing the holster as you would the pistol (i.e., straight index finger) then the problem will not happen. That said, the Safariland version avoids this possibility altogether (i.e., crooked booger hook sliding into the trigger guard during the draw and causing a bang).

What you say about correct operation is mostly true, but is exacerbated by other design failures.

The SERPA can suffer a catastrophic failure when debris gets into the mechanism and it completely locks up preventing drawing the handgun. If this happens to a lesser degree short of a complete lock-up, the user will often attempt to press the release button harder which will usually lead to them moving to using the tip of the finger. If the mechanism unlocks we're now looking at the problem that you referenced.

SERPA holsters have also spectacularly failed to stay attached to the wearer's belt during retention drills.

1 hour ago, Mr.Stu said:

What you say about correct operation is mostly true, but is exacerbated by other design failures.

The SERPA can suffer a catastrophic failure when debris gets into the mechanism and it completely locks up preventing drawing the handgun. If this happens to a lesser degree short of a complete lock-up, the user will often attempt to press the release button harder which will usually lead to them moving to using the tip of the finger. If the mechanism unlocks we're now looking at the problem that you referenced.

SERPA holsters have also spectacularly failed to stay attached to the wearer's belt during retention drills.

Thanks, Mr. Stu. Good info. Regarding the failure to stay attached, do you mean the whole shebang came off or just part? Any idea if the Safariland has the same issue? (The paddles are very similar.)

12 minutes ago, Xtors said:

Thanks, Mr. Stu. Good info. Regarding the failure to stay attached, do you mean the whole shebang came off or just part? Any idea if the Safariland has the same issue? (The paddles are very similar.)

Paddle attachments, whether on SERPA or Safariland are not rated for retention. You need to go with the belt slide to get the level I/II/III rating.

The reports I saw showed the SERPA holster detach from the belt slide.

The Safariland ALS holsters are rock solid. On occasion, I have thrown my bodyweight on a Safariland ALS as I went to the ground to shoot under a barricade and it suffered not at all - and I'm not little.

The design of the ALS is not so susceptible to getting jammed up with debris. However, at the end of the day, it is still a mechanical device and failure is possible.

I have moved away from the ALS holsters and adopted the GLS. I don't need Level I retention during a match, but being certain that the gun won't fall while I run around is reassuring. I like that with ALS and GLS, once the button is activated there is zero friction to overcome - the gun slides right out.

1 hour ago, Mr.Stu said:

Paddle attachments, whether on SERPA or Safariland are not rated for retention. You need to go with the belt slide to get the level I/II/III rating.

The reports I saw showed the SERPA holster detach from the belt slide.

The Safariland ALS holsters are rock solid. On occasion, I have thrown my bodyweight on a Safariland ALS as I went to the ground to shoot under a barricade and it suffered not at all - and I'm not little.

The design of the ALS is not so susceptible to getting jammed up with debris. However, at the end of the day, it is still a mechanical device and failure is possible.

I have moved away from the ALS holsters and adopted the GLS. I don't need Level I retention during a match, but being certain that the gun won't fall while I run around is reassuring. I like that with ALS and GLS, once the button is activated there is zero friction to overcome - the gun slides right out.

Roger that. For OWB I have some SERPA and more recently GLS. Good to know on the belt loop!

5 hours ago, Xtors said:

At the risk of starting a holy war, I think the issue with SERPA holsters is a training issue. If you are indexing the holster as you would the pistol (i.e., straight index finger) then the problem will not happen. That said, the Safariland version avoids this possibility altogether (i.e., crooked booger hook sliding into the trigger guard during the draw and causing a bang).

Trigger finger issues, while a real concern, is the least of the problems with the SERPA.

Both the holster and belt attachment are made from cheap plastic that can be ripped off your belt with a twist. They designed a locking mechanism that is easily rendered useless, subsequently locking the gun into the holster so you need tin-snips to cut the gun out. And, they use terrible cheap mounting hardware that backs out on its own for no reason. I’ve seen more l issues with SERPA alone than all other holsters combined. 
 

But, since you brought it up - let’s design a holster that only releases the gun when you hit a button with your trigger finger. Then let’s put that button right where the trigger is located. Then let’s make the motion necessary to successfully manipulate the holster, replicate a trigger press. Then let’s expect this to be done at speed and under stress.

What could go wrong?  
 

ETA: ahh… and I just saw that @Mr.Stu covered a lot of it already. Listen to him. He’s a cool guy /Zoolander

Edited December 13, 20223 yr by High Exposure

23 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

Trigger finger issues, while a real concern, is the least of the problems with the SERPA.

Both the holster and belt attachment are made from cheap plastic that can be ripped off your belt with a twist. They designed a locking mechanism that is easily rendered useless, subsequently locking the gun into the holster so you need tin-snips to cut the gun out. And, they use terrible cheap mounting hardware that backs out on its own for no reason. I’ve seen more l issues with SERPA alone than all other holsters combined. 
 

But, since you brought it up - let’s design a holster that only releases the gun when you hit a button with your trigger finger. Then let’s put that button right where the trigger is located. Then let’s make the motion necessary to successfully manipulate the holster, replicate a trigger press. Then let’s expect this to be done at speed and under stress.

What could go wrong?  
 

ETA: ahh… and I just saw that @Mr.Stu covered a lot of it already. Listen to him. He’s a cool guy /Zoolander

Appreciate you both filling in my knowledge gaps!

Ok, so I have been carrying for a couple months, I'm still a newb. But no matter what I try, I can't carry IWB with a kydex holster without considerable pain.

Some background, I am a big boy, I have a sizable belly. I tried AIWB, but that only worked while upright. Sitting or bending over was damn near impossible. I tried 3 o'clock, both straight and canted. I have to tighten my pants to prevent my pants from falling due to the weight of the gun. That resulted in the holster pushing hard against my thigh bone. So that's a no go. I can carry perfectly fine all day with an OWB at 3 o'clock, but that will be more difficult as the weather starts to warm. Finding a suitable cover garment in the summer will be difficult. Any suggestions? I was thinking of a leather holster, but I'm afraid it will collapse when empty.

I'm carrying a P30SK (hammer and external safety) with a tlr7a

4 minutes ago, MartyZ said:

Ok, so I have been carrying for a couple months, I'm still a newb. But no matter what I try, I can't carry IWB with a kydex holster without considerable pain.

Some background, I am a big boy, I have a sizable belly. I tried AIWB, but that only worked while upright. Sitting or bending over was damn near impossible. I tried 3 o'clock, both straight and canted. I have to tighten my pants to prevent my pants from falling due to the weight of the gun. That resulted in the holster pushing hard against my thigh bone. So that's a no go. I can carry perfectly fine all day with an OWB at 3 o'clock, but that will be more difficult as the weather starts to warm. Finding a suitable cover garment in the summer will be difficult. Any suggestions? I was thinking of a leather holster, but I'm afraid it will collapse when empty.

I'm carrying a P30SK (hammer and external safety) with a tlr7a

What about IWB at 4/5 o'clock?

 

1 minute ago, Xtors said:

What about IWB at 4/5 o'clock?

 

I do a lot of driving, and my car has bucket seats.

I carry a CZ P-01 with a TLR-6a in a kydex IWB holster (approx. the size of a Glock 19). There is a sweet spot between 3 o'clock and 4 o'clock where it doesn't sit on any bone, but I can sit in the car, or any other seat without issue.

Thanks Stu, I'll give that a try.

In the meantime I'm researching leather holster. This one looks promising, any experience with Falco?

https://www.falcoholsters.com/premium-stable-easy-on-iwb-leather-holster-for-gun-with-light-a121?variant=2440

A few things:

- MY EDC is also a P30sk, and I'll say that it feels 'thick' to me.  I'm a lean guy, so IWB isn't a challenge, but my P30sk is the most needy when it comes to positioning.  When I'm just wearing shorts and a t-shirt I usually carry a Taurus G2C.  Thinner and less bulky.  Long way of saying you may want to look at other pistol options for IWB carry.

- Stock up on Hawaiian shirts and bowling shirts for the warm weather. 

- I've seen a TON of advertisements for this 'comfort' product recently that seems designed for the issues you're facing.  I've never tried it, so buyer beware:

18 minutes ago, 124gr9mm said:

A few things:

- MY EDC is also a P30sk, and I'll say that it feels 'thick' to me.  I'm a lean guy, so IWB isn't a challenge, but my P30sk is the most needy when it comes to positioning.  When I'm just wearing shorts and a t-shirt I usually carry a Taurus G2C.  Thinner and less bulky.  Long way of saying you may want to look at other pistol options for IWB carry.

- Stock up on Hawaiian shirts and bowling shirts for the warm weather. 

- I've seen a TON of advertisements for this 'comfort' product recently that seems designed for the issues you're facing.  I've never tried it, so buyer beware:

They have a 30 return policy. It might be worth giving it a try.

Geez 30 bucks for a little piece of foam? I’m off to go hack up my wife’s unused yoga mats for free!

3 hours ago, Shocker said:

Geez 30 bucks for a little piece of foam? I’m off to go hack up my wife’s unused yoga mats for free!

A quick trip to the hobby store would make it easy to make a similar product at home for a proof of concept...

I need to see if my wife needs her yoga mats

I carry a ruger lc 380 everyday crossbreed super tuck at 430.  No issues getting to it.

12 hours ago, MartyZ said:

Thanks Stu, I'll give that a try.

In the meantime I'm researching leather holster. This one looks promising, any experience with Falco?

https://www.falcoholsters.com/premium-stable-easy-on-iwb-leather-holster-for-gun-with-light-a121?variant=2440

1791 Gun Leather just came out with some good Light options - I'm going to get a couple to try out.

Have you looked at the hybrids, with leather or foam against your skin and kydex on the outside to support the gun?  Not sure that would solve your problem, as I generally find the butt of the gun digging into me is more the problem than the actual holster, but it might be worth a look. 

10 hours ago, Krdshrk said:

1791 Gun Leather just came out with some good Light options - I'm going to get a couple to try out.

I took a look at their site, their holsters appear to be generic In a hand full of sizes. Falco is fully custom for a similar price. Also Falco has a 30 day full refund return policy, minus shipping probably, if you are not satisfied. I think I will be ordering from them, then provide a review here.

1 hour ago, Old Glock guy said:

Have you looked at the hybrids, with leather or foam against your skin and kydex on the outside to support the gun?  Not sure that would solve your problem, as I generally find the butt of the gun digging into me is more the problem than the actual holster, but it might be worth a look. 

I don't know, for some reason I'm not crazy about hybrids.

On 2/7/2024 at 8:48 AM, MartyZ said:

Ok, so I have been carrying for a couple months, I'm still a newb. But no matter what I try, I can't carry IWB with a kydex holster without considerable pain.

Some background, I am a big boy, I have a sizable belly. I tried AIWB, but that only worked while upright. Sitting or bending over was damn near impossible. I tried 3 o'clock, both straight and canted. I have to tighten my pants to prevent my pants from falling due to the weight of the gun. That resulted in the holster pushing hard against my thigh bone. So that's a no go. I can carry perfectly fine all day with an OWB at 3 o'clock, but that will be more difficult as the weather starts to warm. Finding a suitable cover garment in the summer will be difficult. Any suggestions? I was thinking of a leather holster, but I'm afraid it will collapse when empty.

I'm carrying a P30SK (hammer and external safety) with a tlr7a

What kind of belt are you using? That makes a huge difference - maybe more important that the actual holster sometimes.

13 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

What kind of belt are you using? That makes a huge difference - maybe more important that the actual holster sometimes.

Leather KORE

Take a look at Urban Carry leather holsters.

anyone try something like this? It's a belly band holster but it's kydex, not just a stretch material

Kydex Reinforced Belly Band with Light | Falco (falcoholsters.com)

 

anyone try something like this? It's a belly band holster but it's kydex, not just a stretch material

Kydex Reinforced Belly Band with Light | Falco (falcoholsters.com)

 

5 hours ago, MartyZ said:

anyone try something like this? It's a belly band holster but it's kydex, not just a stretch material

Kydex Reinforced Belly Band with Light | Falco (falcoholsters.com)

 

I don't know anyone who uses a bellyband holster for their EDC. 

There's probably a reason for that.

 

Bellyband might be good during the summer if you're in loose shorts and shirt. I wouldn't use it as my go to.

Here is a video I came across that might be helpful:

 

so who's concealing owb? and whatcha using?

12 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

so who's concealing owb? and whatcha using?

JM Custom Kydex