On 3/1/2024 at 5:51 PM, 1LtCAP said:

 all of this should already be gone due to the bruen decision. i honestly don't understand how this still stands.

FOID and purchase permits are blatantly unconstitutional, but I don't know if a lawsuit has been filed to challenge them.

Took me 6 months for my CCP.

Yes I heard the ccp is at now at $200 saw their budget is talking about going to $400 for a 2 year permit… thats insane…..

my immediate question is did the rpo permit go to $200 and will go to $400 if passed? Or will they do the typical carve out to get the police unions to back it?

No state in the country charges fees anywhere near $200.00 let alone $400.00 for 2 years. This should be an easy win in court! I believe there may even be a law prohibiting a fee for exercising a Constitutional right!

I agree, yet they’ve gotten away with it all these years.. fees, permits to purchase, taking some 6-9 months to get permits to purchase,  continuing magazine restrictions ..etc,etc all infringements on constitutional rights yet they still stand today and increase the price and make as arduous as possible trying to find the point that people will finally give up on trying to exercise their rights ..whether it be money, time to process, or just too much hassle/ too many hoops…. 2 year permit?. Full initial process every 2 years with no reduced process for renewals… raise it to $200 people still doing it… ok raise it to $400… people still do it…next they’ll add more requirements and harder to achieve…like in person drop off and only 1 day a week in the middle of the day…or some other nonsense…. Govt as a whole is out of control there needs to be a reset button!

59 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

No state in the country charges fees anywhere near $200.00 let alone $400.00 for 2 years. This should be an easy win in court! I believe there may even be a law prohibiting a fee for exercising a Constitutional right!

 

New York City is $340 for 3 years. 

Massachusetts is interesting. They grant non residents 1 year permit only (I have one) and you renew every year for $100. Not as expensive as NJ but it's a PITA. 

I am hoping this is an easy win but I think it will take time.

One would think it would be an easy win…. Except how many years will it take firstly for someone to pony up the money to start..then the years of working through the glacial pace legal system with appeals etc then hoping the SC seems it worth of their time after kicking it back to the lower courts to “take another look and make sure you don’t want to do the right thing”  most everyone on this forum will be long gone if/when anything changes I believe…. Werent mag restrictions found unconstitutional some time ago? Yet it still stands in nj…. Along with all the other unconstitutional bs they pull and it’s spreading to neighboring states. While I hope for things change quickly for you guys, I don’t believe they will .

18 hours ago, Fawkesguy said:

FOID and purchase permits are blatantly unconstitutional, but I don't know if a lawsuit has been filed to challenge them.

those lawsuits should've been filed long ago. our handguns are obviously registered, which i do believe is illegal. i'm pretty sure that our long guns are too.

4 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

those lawsuits should've been filed long ago.

I agree.  But I don't think that's the case.

2 hours ago, 1LtCAP said:

those lawsuits should've been filed long ago. our handguns are obviously registered, which i do believe is illegal. i'm pretty sure that our long guns are too.

We had no Bruen decision years ago. It probably wouldn't have ended well for us. I am glad we have Bruen so we can now push back hard.

I have a judge issued permit that expires in August. Does it make sense to apply now to renew ahead of any of Murphy's fee increase?

28 minutes ago, RadioGunner said:

I have a judge issued permit that expires in August. Does it make sense to apply now to renew ahead of any of Murphy's fee increase?

I would think it makes sense...who knows what these Democraps are capable of.

Day 52 was the magic day. Permit came through this morning. 

I see it says on the application to list every gun you own that you may want to carry.  Make model and serial number.  How many have your guys listed?  

On a separate form I listed every handgun that I carry and turned it into my local PD. There is a form for it.

My initial application only had my qualify gun on it. I just went up to the PD and added 3 more. All my carry size  guns except for the expensive ones for a total of 4. 

My PD and the state know every handgun I own and I can legally carry any handgun I own, so I'm not adding to their form every time I buy a new gun....Screw that!

So they are requiring a qualification sheet on each one anymore?

3 minutes ago, pjd832 said:

So they are requiring a qualification sheet on each one anymore?

You only have to qualify with one gun. The separate form requires you to list all guns you intend to carry.  I supplied that form and it was complete at that time. I'll be damned if I'm going to revise their stupid form every time I buy a new gun! I will revise the list if and when I renew my permit.

I gotcha… I’m not in nj, and don’t do the ccw permits, but a friend did and he was told by the state police when he did his, that he needed a qual sheet for each he wanted to carry, he had the statue printed about “permit shall be good for all owned by the person”  they said “it didn’t matter, they were told this is the process” so he went and quaked with half a dozen more I think.. when he got his permit it has “no restrictions” checked and no pistols listed like others had… lol 

he’s sweating the $50-200-400 jump…. Is the 400 fee been passed? 

22 minutes ago, pjd832 said:

Is the 400 fee been passed? 

No!

37 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

No!

You mean not yet.

That is just crazy to even be on the table, I think my wife’s is like $65 or something for five years and it’s a simple mail in single page application. She only had to be fingerprinted the first year and she usually gets it back in two weeks or so  except for during the season of riots/zombie apocalypse, I think it was maybe a month month and a half .

10 hours ago, pjd832 said:

and he was told by the state police when he did his, that he needed a qual sheet for each he wanted to carry, he had the statue printed about “permit shall be good for all owned by the person”  they said “it didn’t matter, they were told this is the process”

Unfortunately, this represents the LE mindset of a lot of NJ officers. Not only are they ignorant of the law, they assume they can make it up as they go.

11 hours ago, pjd832 said:

a friend did and he was told by the state police when he did his, that he needed a qual sheet for each he wanted to carry

This has gone away. The sheet we instructors are required to fill in, SP.182, for proof of completing the use of force training and the CCARE qual has no place to write in the gun that was used. There is no way to submit quals for multiple guns any more.

20 minutes ago, 45Doll said:

Unfortunately, this represents the LE mindset of a lot of NJ officers. Not only are they ignorant of the law, they assume they can make it up as they go.

Pretty broad brush there, and untrue.

Every officer (and it’s quite a few) I know is quite happy about civilians carrying now and is pissed that the process is so murky and onerous.

The law is complicated, new, and the process has changed quickly multiple times (at one time you had to qual with the guns carried) with different tiers of permit holders with different allowances based on the timing of your permit, who signed it, in what county it was signed and what injunction, lawsuit, or process was in place at the time. 

Don’t attribute personal malice to confusion due to changing requirements, lack of accurate guidance from judges, attorneys, or the AGs office, and different standards set forth county by county.

 

2 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

This has gone away. The sheet we instructors are required to fill in, SP.182, for proof of completing the use of force training and the CCARE qual has no place to write in the gun that was used. There is no way to submit quals for multiple guns any more.

Thanks I’ll let him know that should help .. I think he paid a couple hundred extra Last time for the extra quals… so it’ll probably end up being the same with the permit fee increase lol

2 minutes ago, pjd832 said:

 

Thanks I’ll let him know that should help .. I think he paid a couple hundred extra Last time for the extra quals… so it’ll probably end up being the same with the permit fee increase lol

It sounds like he got his permit before the CCARE qual was introduced, so I presume he did a re-qualification before the end of last year. That re-qual is good for 2 years so it would still be valid for his first renewal. He would have to do it again for his following renewal when his next carry permit expires.

3 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

Pretty broad brush there, and untrue.

I thought I was careful to say 'many', and not 'all'. I accept your assessment since you are more tightly coupled into LE than I am, and I agree with most of it in reference to New Jersey specifically.

Nevertheless, over the years I have personally heard NJ LE officers dispense opinions on firearm statues and their implementation that ranged from nonsense to vaguely disguised intentional misinterpretation. In some cases it was obvious they never even read the statute. In others it was clear they intended to ignore them.

Perhaps I should add none of those 'conversations' were on this forum.

I should add that behavior carries up into the LE hierarchy and is by no means confined to LE 'on the beat'. You need go no further than our current DOJ and FBI to clearly see that 'law enforcement' and interpretation of statutes comes in different flavors. Depending on circumstances.

 

6 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

It sounds like he got his permit before the CCARE qual was introduced, so I presume he did a re-qualification before the end of last year. That re-qual is good for 2 years so it would still be valid for his first renewal. He would have to do it again for his following renewal when his next carry permit expires.

I believe he did his quals in Aug of 2022 by the original standards moving and shooting reloading in a string of fire etc and submitted, his permit issue date was early December… but they didn’t call him to pick up until end of January…so if he submits prior to August the qual sheet is an old form.. so it’s useless is t it? If there’s a new form and he has to take the use of force class and the qual is probably included or does he not need the uof training if he’s an OG permit holder?