19 minutes ago, Bushmaster1313 said:

IIRC the statute says that the judge can put any restrictions on the permit that the judge thinks appropriate. If true, only violate the judge’s restrictions if you are okay with three hots and a cot and all that goes with a felony conviction. 

A significant amount of these restrictions, especially being in a vehicle, are clearly going to be challenged based on Bruen. 

1 hour ago, Lostboy said:

So instead load/unload in a parking lot and wait for someone to call 911 and possibly be arrested or shot. Basically if we're going to go along with any of this, you better only carry when you intend on walking to your destination. 

We shouldn't even entertain the idea of accepting that restriction! 

42 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

A significant amount of these restrictions, especially being in a vehicle, are clearly going to be challenged based on Bruen. 

Of course they will be challenged and they might eventually be held to violate the Second Amendment  

In the meantime, anyone nabbed for violating those restrictions will be in a world of hurt

Update: After emailing the chief last night and getting his response immediately, sure enough the head of the investigations department called me at 8:30am. He apologized for about 30 minutes, saying that he had taken over the role just 6 weeks ago, these processes were complicated and he wasn't quite up to speed, and that he absolutely made mistakes in processing my paperwork causing the delay. He actually made me feel guilty for escalating it by the end. He promised to bring the approved paperwork to the courthouse himself by the end of the day today. I told him that since 60 days was the law and he was beyond that, I was going to come down and arrest him. We had a laugh but he was truly apologetic and completely understood my concern that at any moment all of the rules can change and shaft me out of lots of money and effort.

So NOW; my files are presumably at the courthouse and we shall see what happens. He said he was going to put a note on my file that said he unintentionally delayed it and would they please advance it quickly. We shall see, Hudson county isn't done with me yet.

8 minutes ago, Bushmaster1313 said:

Of course they will be challenged and they might eventually be held to violate the Second Amendment  

In the meantime, anyone nabbed for violating those restrictions will be in a world of hurt

Well on the positive side, NJs bail reform costs you nothing and you wouldn't have to wait in jail for the outcome. 

17 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

Well on the positive side, NJs bail reform costs you nothing and you wouldn't have to wait in jail for the outcome. 

In normal world you'd be correct but we're in Gov Murphy clown world. They specifically went back and amended the law to disinclude graves acts. Get charged with firearm offenses sit in jail till trial

 

Directive #08-22 - Criminal Justice Reform - (1) Amended by L. 2022, c. 43 to Address Graves Act Offenses; (2) Amendments to Court Rule 3:4A(b)(5); Changes to the Decision-Making Framework (DMF) (njcourts.gov)

3 hours ago, RadioGunner said:

Contempt of court is what I was told.

Interesting.....

By ignoring the direction of the SCOTUS (provided via Bruen), isn't this court in contempt of the Supreme Court?

 

11 hours ago, Krdshrk said:

Notary can be done free - I went to my bank and they did it for me for free

Since it's out of state, they charge a "Location Fee"... it's part of their money making scam.

$56.50.  I paid $39.95 location fee to get mine done in Doylestown, PA in the back of a little parcel shipping spot.

This^  Thanks for answering.  I hadn't had time to get back on after I posted so I didn't see that I had questions, but those are the answers.  Notary is free at my bank.  Identigo charges extra for out of state, but I went to PA because it showed the next NJ appointments were a month out from when I was looking. 

3 hours ago, W2MC said:

Interesting.....

By ignoring the direction of the SCOTUS (provided via Bruen), isn't this court in contempt of the Supreme Court?

 

Bruen said state cannot require justifiable need to get a carry permit. 
 

Bruen also said that if the Second Amendment is implicated by a law the court must see if the law passes muster under the text of the Second Amendment and the history of gun regulation during the time the Second Amendment and the Fourteenth Amendments were ratified. A Judge could analyze the text and the history and determine that carry permits restrict to no carry in a car was Constitutional. The judge might be found wrong on appeal but not in contempt of the Supreme Court. 

2 minutes ago, Bushmaster1313 said:

Bruen said state cannot require justifiable need to get a carry permit. 
 

Bruen also said that if the Second Amendment is implicated by a law the court must see if the law passes muster under the text of the Second Amendment and the history of gun regulation during the time the Second Amendment and the Fourteenth Amendments were ratified. A Judge could analyze the text and the history and determine that carry permits restrict to no carry in a car was Constitutional. The judge might LHW found wrong on appeal but not in contempt of the Supreme Court. 

They weren't allowed to be armed inside carriages or on horseback?

Just wanted to provide an update of where I am so far:

Submitted my paperwork to the West Orange PD on 7/19

Got fingerprinted on 7/25 in Staten Island (No NJ appointments)

PD sent letters to references within the same week.

Money Order has been cashed since checking today(9/8).

I am assuming that that means it has made it to the courts but I am not sure. Does anyone else have any insight into how Essex County has been handling permits?

5 hours ago, Blairsden said:

Yes, we will meet sometime! (I'm actually stopping there for a minute right now)

I'll be looking for the guy that's hopefully not printing :-)

9 hours ago, Regular Guy said:

This^  Thanks for answering.  I hadn't had time to get back on after I posted so I didn't see that I had questions, but those are the answers.  Notary is free at my bank.  Identigo charges extra for out of state, but I went to PA because it showed the next NJ appointments were a month out from when I was looking. 

Notary is a maximum of $2.50 per signature by state law anyway. Even if you have to pay for it, it’s not expensive. 

11 hours ago, Ferris said:

In normal world you'd be correct but we're in Gov Murphy clown world. They specifically went back and amended the law to disinclude graves acts. Get charged with firearm offenses sit in jail till trial

 

Directive #08-22 - Criminal Justice Reform - (1) Amended by L. 2022, c. 43 to Address Graves Act Offenses; (2) Amendments to Court Rule 3:4A(b)(5); Changes to the Decision-Making Framework (DMF) (njcourts.gov)

That directive is SOME Crock of Shit!  This is what we pay these assholes for?  Coming up with ways to keep people OUT of jail?  This state sucks the big one.

***DELETED***

***DELETED***

10 hours ago, Philasipha said:

Just wanted to provide an update of where I am so far:

Submitted my paperwork to the West Orange PD on 7/19

Got fingerprinted on 7/25 in Staten Island (No NJ appointments)

PD sent letters to references within the same week.

Money Order has been cashed since checking today(9/8).

I am assuming that that means it has made it to the courts but I am not sure. Does anyone else have any insight into how Essex County has been handling permits?

Yes, it means the superior court in your area is processing your application.

25 minutes ago, samiam said:

If that is the case, the law seems to be violated routinely from what I've seen posted here. I paid a multiple of that (receipt currently filed) for each of my three application forms.

UPS charged me 2.50 x 3. Not sure where you went but there is a UPS in nearly every town. 

13 hours ago, Ferris said:

In normal world you'd be correct but we're in Gov Murphy clown world. They specifically went back and amended the law to disinclude graves acts. Get charged with firearm offenses sit in jail till trial

 

Directive #08-22 - Criminal Justice Reform - (1) Amended by L. 2022, c. 43 to Address Graves Act Offenses; (2) Amendments to Court Rule 3:4A(b)(5); Changes to the Decision-Making Framework (DMF) (njcourts.gov)

With our revolving door justice system  Criminals plead out and their gun charges are dropped.

And they walk out the front door to commit crimes all over again.

16 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

So i just thought of something....

If the court places restrictions on your permit... and you violate them... what happens?

Restrictions on a permit have the force of law.

1 hour ago, Tunaman said:

That directive is SOME Crock of Shit!  This is what we pay these assholes for?  Coming up with ways to keep people OUT of jail?  This state sucks the big one.

Criminals keep people in fear and voting for lunacy in a vein attempt to feel safe..

 

24 minutes ago, silverado427 said:

With our revolving door justice system  Criminals plead out and their gun charges are dropped.

And they walk out the front door to commit crimes all over again.

Yes the guy who pulled a gun you to rob in your home will get gun charges up dropped and end up pleading to a trespass charge. But YOU will get charged with at least a 4th degree felony,   stuck in prison till trail and get sentence to a crazy minimum mandatory sentence, when they come to your home for defending yourself against him and notice  your mag could hold 11, if the push really hard down and use tape to hold the round in, or the muzzle brake or stock isn't pinned  ENOUGH on your AR you shot him with.

I don't want to derail this thread but my point is the state wants you disarmed and ,if you have the gall to have the desire to defend yourself ,  they will find (new and creative) ways to ruin your life and make sure you end up disarmed( by becoming a prohibited person).

So I'd honor whatever dumb crap they come up with on the court order until you can sue to have it removed.

28 minutes ago, exfed2002 said:

Restrictions on a permit have the force of law.

Yes and outside of the restrictions you have no permit. Remember that some security guards with time and place restrictions were arrested for carrying outside the restrictions. 

1 hour ago, RadioGunner said:

Yes and outside of the restrictions you have no permit. Remember that some security guards with time and place restrictions were arrested for carrying outside the restrictions. 

And in fact, someone who was carrying outside restrictions is what started a lot of this crap back in about 1971/72.

***DELETED***

1 hour ago, Ferris said:

Criminals keep people in fear and voting for lunacy in a vein attempt to feel safe..

 

Yes the guy who pulled a gun you to rob in your home will get gun charges up dropped and end up pleading to a trespass charge. But YOU will get charged with at least a 4th degree felony,   stuck in prison till trail and get sentence to a crazy minimum mandatory sentence, when they come to your home for defending yourself against him and notice  your mag could hold 11, if the push really hard down and use tape to hold the round in, or the muzzle brake or stock isn't pinned  ENOUGH on your AR you shot him with.

I don't want to derail this thread but my point is the state wants you disarmed and ,if you have the gall to have the desire to defend yourself ,  they will find (new and creative) ways to ruin your life and make sure you end up disarmed( by becoming a prohibited person).

So I'd honor whatever dumb crap they come up with on the court order until you can sue to have it removed.

 

1 hour ago, RadioGunner said:

Yes and outside of the restrictions you have no permit. Remember that some security guards with time and place restrictions were arrested for carrying outside the restrictions. 

 

1 minute ago, exfed2002 said:

And in fact, someone who was carrying outside restrictions is what started a lot of this crap back in about 1971/72.

I'll ask again, when you load/unload in a parking lot and some mom's demand action chick calls 911 what then? If we're going along with this, then understand that it is a catch-22. Break one law in lieu of breaking another. They're going to get us, every single one, and that's what this restriction is designed to do. You can't prove otherwise. 

***DELETED***

14 hours ago, Lostboy said:

They weren't allowed to be armed inside carriages or on horseback?

With respect to search and seizure and the exclusion of evidence under the Fourth Amendment, there is something known as the “Automobile Exception.”  If a driver is stopped, the U.S. Supreme Court allows the interior of the vehicle to be searched because of the special risk an automobile creates for the police officer. If I was a zealous attorney representing the state in favor of restricting carry permits to exclude while operating or riding in a car, I would argue that the Second Amendment also has an “Automobile Exception,” and I might win that argument in court. 

8 minutes ago, Lostboy said:

 

 

I'll ask again, when you load/unload in a parking lot and some mom's demand action chick calls 911 what then? If we're going along with this, then understand that it is a catch-22. Break one law in lieu of breaking another. They're going to get us, every single one, and that's what this restriction is designed to do. You can't prove otherwise. 

Why would someone see you loading your pistol and putting it in your holster?  You should be easily able to do that discretely.

And even if someone did see you, what law would you be breaking?

If you have a carry permit the fact that you 'print' or someone sees it for a second when you reach for something on a shelf doesn't mean you're breaking the law.

Take a breath.

We're at the beginning of gun owners being able to carry.  The State will try to keep obstacles and confusion in place.  It will be a long process involving lots more litigation.

15 minutes ago, Lostboy said:

 

 

I'll ask again, when you load/unload in a parking lot and some mom's demand action chick calls 911 what then? If we're going along with this, then understand that it is a catch-22. Break one law in lieu of breaking another. They're going to get us, every single one, and that's what this restriction is designed to do. You can't prove otherwise. 

Then get the restriction removed. That’s the only way. Hopefully strikeforce will have a solution but you can also retain your own attorney. But don’t just break the law, unless your intention is to become a test case. 

***DELETED***