Two questions - one I know the answer too - but want to ask anyway:

1)  Carry Ammo - HP's Verboten?  

a)  Would it make sense then to carry similar ammo to say your local PD or NJSP?

2)  Is NJ a DUTY TO INFORM State?

 

 

Dunno what your game is, but I'll play:
 

8 minutes ago, CAL. .30 M1 said:

1)  Carry Ammo - HP's Verboten?  

Yes, Hollow Point ammunition still illegal outside of certain exemptions, regardless if granted carry permit or not.
 

8 minutes ago, CAL. .30 M1 said:

a)  Would it make sense then to carry similar ammo to say your local PD or NJSP?

No, unless you're a NJ LEO - NJ LEO's are exempted from hollow point restrictions.

8 minutes ago, CAL. .30 M1 said:

2)  Is NJ a DUTY TO INFORM State?

No it is not.  You do not have a duty to inform a police officer you're carrying if you're stopped.
 

Conventional hollow points are a no-no, stick with Hornady Critical Defense/ Critical duty. 
Unless your PD carry’s critical defense or critical duty then no.

And I haven’t seen anything about informing police that you are legally carrying a gun. I see NJ becoming a duty to inform state tho.

Unless they carry that then no?  What do you mean by that....

 

 

Anyone have any comments about frangible ammunition?

17 hours ago, CAL. .30 M1 said:

Two questions - one I know the answer too - but want to ask anyway:

1)  Carry Ammo - HP's Verboten?  

a)  Would it make sense then to carry similar ammo to say your local PD or NJSP?

2)  Is NJ a DUTY TO INFORM State?

 

 

according to the class i took, yes. no hp. critical defense though seems to have an exception mentioned on state pd website?  i think that at least one of my local depts does in fact carry holllow points. seen them in one officers mag.

 

 2....i'd like to know that one too. i'm sure that somehow, our ccw status will get linked to our DL, and they'll already know when they stop us. big question will be if we get targeted because we have ccw.

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4 hours ago, samiam said:

Don't have a cite, but I have been told by several people who should be knowledgeable that ammo that the owner has made frangible (e.g., dum dums) is illegal in NJ. Ammo manufactured to do that, I'm not so sure, that might vary. Personally, I wouldn't risk carrying ammo that might be questioned unless there is a clear, demonstrated improvement in effectiveness. 

So, ball....  

Dum dums by definition are bullets that expand. I dont see frangible bullets meeting that criteria. 

NJ doesn't differentiate between who made the cartridge, so manufactured or reloaded shouldn't have a legal impact with this regard.

I would stick with ball ammo, any bullet like Hornady Critical Defense, while not hollow point could be considered a dum dum. 

Just to clarify, I believe LEO's in NJ can carry HP's when on duty, but are not permitted to do so when off duty. 

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1 hour ago, samiam said:

A dum dum (at least the ones I am familiar with) is made by removing part of the nose of a lead-cored, jacketed bullet. It was originally developed by the British for use in their Express rifle in India (at Dum Dum arsenal). I've seen homemade dum dums where the jacket of an fmj round is scored in an "X" pattern. My understanding is that, depending on the contour and depth of the material removed, on impact the bullet may expand, fragment, or both. I have never come across any case citation or authoritative official source claiming that HCD is considered a dum dum, a HP, or has otherwise been found to be illegal in NJ. Have you?

Take a closer look at the critical defense/duty, they have the scoring in the jacket and part of the lead core removed at the nose.

I'm not saying they have, I'm saying they "may", based on its configuration. 

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/95/78/1b/95781b2c9668bd9c26792fb0583f6b39.jpg

 

NJSP don't offer official "legal advice", either. While they say HCD is not hollow point, they don't say it's NOT a dum dum. 

Just to clarify and help in ammo selection, this is from the NJSP website (in the FAQ section).

1. I’m not a police officer, are hollow points legal for me to possess?

   Yes.  They are legal for purchase and possess in your home or on land owned by you.  They are legal to possess and use at a gun range.  They are also legal to possess while traveling to and from such places. Ammunition lacking a hollow cavity at the tip, such as those with a polymer filling, are not considered to be hollow point ammunition.  An example of this can be seen with the Hornady Critical Defense / Critical Duty, Cor-Bon PowRball / Glaser Safety Slug and Nosler Inc. Defense ammunition.

Use Norma NXD.  Solves the problem of hollow points and also solves the problem of having to pay to house and feed a criminal that you shoot. 

Firearms Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ's) | New Jersey State Police (nj.gov)

See question 13 on the NJSP FAQ.  Basically, use Critical Defense or Critical Duty.  From what I read Critical Defense was designed for smaller guns, Critical Duty is more for full sized guns.  The Defense will penetrate less, the Duty will penetrate car doors and windows better.  

 

While HCD seems to do well in ballistics tests as far as expanding, when researching it, I've read a few stories of people being shot with it and it not opening.  At any rate it would still be better than ball ammo.  

 

Is there any good soft point handgun bullets?  Spear Gold Dot 5.56/.223 ammo is soft point and is supposed to work well with good expansion, but the Speer Gold Dot hand gun ammo is hollow point.  I'm guessing this is due to velocity difference between HG ammo and rifle ammo.  

 

So whats the best option in .22 for something like an LCP thats NJ legal?

On 9/26/2022 at 7:57 PM, ESB said:

From what I read Critical Defense was designed for smaller guns, Critical Duty is more for full sized guns.  The Defense will penetrate less, the Duty will penetrate car doors and windows better.  

https://www.hornadyle.com/the-difference-between-critical-defense-and-critical-duty

The Hornady site doesn't give load information, but I'm guessing that Critical Duty has more powder/develops more pressure than critical defense; "Better in Full Size guns" is probably layman-speak for "will have more velocity in longer barrels".

If that's true, I'd also expect Critical Duty to have more flash effect in a short barrel/compact handgun than Critical Defense.

On 10/3/2022 at 3:59 PM, Lostboy said:

So whats the best option in .22 for something like an LCP thats NJ legal?

.22LR defensive handgun ammo?  Federal Punch.  Check out reviews and video of it.  It will consistently hit the 12-16" in ballistics gel. 

Most .22LR HP ammo will not expand, or if it does will not penetrate very far, even in rifles (CCI Stingers may be the exception out of a rifle).  .22LR HP out of a handgun will have a really hard time expanding and penetrating.  

In a rifle you might want to do 1 Stinger then 1 Punch, alternating.    In .22LR handgun I would do Federal Punch only.     

Realize that with .22LR you are going to need well placed shots, and probably several of them.  

 

1 hour ago, ESB said:

.22LR defensive handgun ammo?  Federal Punch.  Check out reviews and video of it.  It will consistently hit the 12-16" in ballistics gel. 

Most .22LR HP ammo will not expand, or if it does will not penetrate very far, even in rifles (Stingers may be the exception out of a rifle).  .22LR HP out of a handgun will have a really hard time expanding and penetrating.  

In a rifle you might want to do 1 Stinger then 1 Punch, alternating.    In .22LR handgun I would do Federal Punch only.     

Realize that with .22LR you are going to need well placed shots, and probably several of them.  

 

Thank you. I watched a bunch of reviews and yeah that's true especially out of a tiny gun like an lcp2. I don't intend on carrying it often, but it is a nice alternative when dressing light. I'll look into the federal punch. 

7 hours ago, ESB said:

Realize that with .22LR you are going to need well placed shots, and probably several of them.  

That goes for all handgun rounds. The one shot stop is mostly a myth.

No hp.  As for duty to inform not atm.  With that said I was pulled over twice while carrying for a blown head light both towns with a reputation for being tough.  As the officer introduced himself both times I said "sir just so you know I have a carry permit and my weapon is on my side.  Both interactions were very respectful,  ended eith no ticket and conversations on how I was carrying if I liked it etc.  One thanked me for being upfront and said it put him at ease that being upfront before he asked knew I was forthcoming.

23 minutes ago, Vdep217 said:

both towns with a reputation for being tough. 

Curious?  What towns?

Under the new Carry Killer Bill that was passed, we now have a duty to inform (even if it is in the trunk).  I am not sure if this will be challenged under the current cases under Judge Bumb.  I would think that it violates your 5th amendment rights.  

3 hours ago, ESB said:

Under the new Carry Killer Bill that was passed, we now have a duty to inform (even if it is in the trunk).  I am not sure if this will be challenged under the current cases under Judge Bumb.  I would think that it violates your 5th amendment rights.  

Not part of the proceedings.  More to come, possibly.

3 hours ago, ESB said:

Under the new Carry Killer Bill that was passed, we now have a duty to inform (even if it is in the trunk).  I am not sure if this will be challenged under the current cases under Judge Bumb.  I would think that it violates your 5th amendment rights.  

The sticky says 

Duty to inform and Insurance requirements do not take effect until July 2023.

has this been updated?

15 hours ago, Cheflife15 said:

The sticky says 

Duty to inform and Insurance requirements do not take effect until July 2023.

has this been updated?

Thanks.  I assumed the duty to inform took effect immediately.  

On 1/15/2023 at 9:04 PM, Vdep217 said:

No hp.  As for duty to inform not atm.  With that said I was pulled over twice while carrying for a blown head light both towns with a reputation for being tough.  As the officer introduced himself both times I said "sir just so you know I have a carry permit and my weapon is on my side.  Both interactions were very respectful,  ended eith no ticket and conversations on how I was carrying if I liked it etc.  One thanked me for being upfront and said it put him at ease that being upfront before he asked knew I was forthcoming.

What state? Assuming not NJ, too soon for PD to be normalized with civilian carry IMO

1 minute ago, Moutinas said:

What state? Assuming not NJ, too soon for PD to be normalized with civilian carry IMO

Yes it was new jersey. Contrary to belief mist police are for legL carry

1 minute ago, Vdep217 said:

Yes it was new jersey. Contrary to belief mist police are for legL carry

Ha, can't decode "mist police are for legL carry" Is it most police are legal for carry? When my family member was pulled over out of state he had his badge on his leg facing the window. The on duty PO saw the badge and chatted him up for a minute or so then said be safe, the end. I guess it was assumed he was armed.