Hi, I am remembering at class I took at RTSP lady instructor said - don't load one in chamber and ten in mag, just keep it 10 total with one in chamber. Still don't understand why? NJ required 10 rounds mags and it is 10, so where is violation? What do you carry?

12 minutes ago, leo-польд said:

Hi, I am remembering at class I took at RTSP lady instructor said - don't load one in chamber and ten in mag, just keep it 10 total with one in chamber. Still don't understand why? NJ required 10 rounds mags and it is 10, so where is violation? What do you carry?

Was this a class you recently had, or did something happen recently that is making you consider it now?

i think her saying that is pretty much the same as the "you have to tell the intruder to leave before you can use deadly force in your dwelling".....they're taking the safe way out.

Carrying 1 in chamber and 10 in magazine.  There is nothing illegal about that.

I always carry 10+1. The law clearly states a maximum magazine capacity. Nothing is said about how many rounds you can have total.

Now that I'm thinking about this - when I "ghost load" my semi-auto shotgun, it has 5 in the magazine, 1 in the chamber and 1 on the lifter.

1 minute ago, DirtyDigz said:

Now that I'm thinking about this - when I "ghost load" my semi-auto shotgun, it has 5 in the magazine, 1 in the chamber and 1 on the lifter.

Those are rookie numbers - lol

You need to get a +1 mag extension. 

So this should be fine here, as long as the magazines are separate (as built, the dual mags shared a common base plate).   20 in the mags, and 2 in the pipes.  Almost like living in a free state!

AF2011

Mikulek shoots the AF2011

21 minutes ago, 10X said:

So this should be fine here, as long as the magazines are separate (as built, the dual mags shared a common base plate).   20 in the mags, and 2 in the pipes.  Almost like living in a free state!

AF2011

Mikulek shoots the AF2011

It would be fine here except pressing either trigger fires both barrels at once. That means it could be classified as a machine gun as a more than one round is fired for a single action of the trigger.

According to Ian McCullum of Forgotten Weapons, the ATF don't have an issue with it, but they have been changing their minds on a whim a lot lately.

I wouldn't run the risk with NJ being what it is. I can see a DA drooling over a machinegun prosecution.

https://youtu.be/P57iXMmlUZo

1 hour ago, Mr.Stu said:

I always carry 10+1. The law clearly states a maximum magazine capacity. Nothing is said about how many rounds you can have total.

6 hours ago, Mr.Stu said:

It would be fine here except pressing either trigger fires both barrels at once. That means it could be classified as a machine gun as a more than one round is fired for a single action of the trigger.

That's a detail I'd missed.  But I'd already lost interest in it when I couldn't find an IWB holster for the gun.   

8 hours ago, father-of-three said:

Was this a class you recently had, or did something happen recently that is making you consider it now?

mid August, no just got new rounds and was thinking while loading my pistols.

On 1/12/2023 at 6:48 AM, leo-польд said:

Hi, I am remembering at class I took at RTSP lady instructor said - don't load one in chamber and ten in mag, just keep it 10 total with one in chamber. Still don't understand why? NJ required 10 rounds mags and it is 10, so where is violation? What do you carry?

Instructors often recommend having the magazine loaded down one.  That's because a fully loaded mag is often too tightly jammed for proper operation of the gun.  Sometimes the slide won't properly function to load the next round.  I have a couple guns with pinned magazines in particular where this happens.  With the mag loaded to 10, I can't even manually rack the slide.

But that shouldn’t be a blanket recommendation.  Know your gun!  If it works reliably with 10 + 1 loaded, then that’s the way to load it.  

Loading down by one is a crutch, covering for a mag or gun that isn’t quite working as intended.  Load down if you must for reliability, but try to figure out and remedy the root cause of the problem. 

I don't disagree, but he wanted to know why he was told that, and now he knows.  FYI, almost every mag I had pinned needs loading down 1.  The simply fact is that if you can't load it full or can't rack the slide after loading full, you have no choice but to load it down one.

If you have a firearm you rely on personal protection keep one in the pipe and have the magazine fully loaded. Since we are limited to 10 round magazines, I keep my M&P 40c with 1 in the pipe and 10 in the magazine. I want the most amount of rounds available to me. I might need those 11 rounds, with 10 rounds as a reload in my back pocket.

8 hours ago, Carolina Native said:

I don't disagree, but he wanted to know why he was told that, and now he knows.  FYI, almost every mag I had pinned needs loading down 1.  The simply fact is that if you can't load it full or can't rack the slide after loading full, you have no choice but to load it down one.

When the A-Holes in Trenton passed the less than standard capacity magazine reduction I moved all my 15 rounders out of state and replaced them all with factory 10 rounders. Sig and Berretta . This cost me a small fortune. I paid extra for reliability as I have never had to load down for any of them to function.

Sort of on topic, I keep one semi with an empty chamber for a few specific weekly events. I feel safer around the little ones if I carry on an empty chamber. They like to climb up and God forbid. The barrel always seems to be facing in the wrong direction when toddlers are around. The other is when I know I'm going somewhere that is gun-free. So much easier and safer to drop the mag and stow the pistol in the trunk lock box unloaded. I tried it the other way and during the course of the week and I was loading and unloading too often.

6 minutes ago, Moutinas said:

I feel safer around the little ones if I carry on an empty chamber. They like to climb up and God forbid. The barrel always seems to be facing in the wrong direction when toddlers are around.

I normally do not react like this but.... WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus H. F****ing Christ......  If little ones are around, why are your guns within their orbit?!?!?!?

pushing a stroller, taking them for a drive to a park, normal stuff

You may be trying to sell that, but I am not buying it.

Maybe  with toddlers around, a quick access safe is in your future.  Having new grandkids that are just starting to walk, all my guns are locked away when they are visiting.  There will be plenty of time to teach them about gun safety.  But for now the only way to roll around and interact with them is when guns are locked up. 

Your mention of a gun barrel always facing the wrong way is really disturbing, though.

 never had one issue with a mag that was pinned. Who is pinning them?

17 minutes ago, H2oVento said:

 never had one issue with a mag that was pinned. Who is pinning them?

RTSP.  These were for new guns shipped to them.  The disclosure you sign indicates that the mags may not hold ten till after they wear in.  I'm not happy about that, but figured it was typical.  I guess not.

1 minute ago, Carolina Native said:

RTSP.  These were for new guns shipped to them.  The disclosure you sign indicates that the mags may not hold ten till after they wear in.  I'm not happy about that, but figured it was typical.  I guess not.

RTSP has pinned all my mags...  

3 hours ago, Moutinas said:

Sort of on topic, I keep one semi with an empty chamber for a few specific weekly events. I feel safer around the little ones if I carry on an empty chamber. They like to climb up and God forbid. The barrel always seems to be facing in the wrong direction when toddlers are around. The other is when I know I'm going somewhere that is gun-free. So much easier and safer to drop the mag and stow the pistol in the trunk lock box unloaded. I tried it the other way and during the course of the week and I was loading and unloading too often.

I am going to assume your handgun is holstered while around little ones. A decent holster renders the gun inert for all practical purposes, whether there is a round chambered or not. If your holster does not retain the gun sufficiently well that you are worried about it falling out while playing with kids, you need a better holster. 

As for the barrel pointing in the wrong direction, again in a decent holster that properly retains the gun and covers the trigger, little kids can run around your feet below hip level all day long perfectly safely. If they are climbing up you, again a proper holster will prevent them from inadvertently getting to the trigger.

I suspect this is a confidence issue, rather than a true safety issue.

If you are chambering the same round again and again, there is a risk of bullet set back. This is where the bullet is pushed into the case little by little each time it hits the feed ramp to be chambered. This is a bad thing and has the potential to create an overpressure event when that round is fired.

3 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

you need a better holster.

I could not agree more. A high quality holster is a must if you are going to carry a firearm. 

All good comments. Didn't think I'd have to state the obvious but here goes. I don't carry in the home, gun and holster come off and is secured. My empty chamber carry is only for when I'm off property while around grandchildren. Hope that makes more sense. Yes to good holster and retention, also obvious. Just thought I'd mention this for anyone else who sees the little ones on visits. It's an extra layer of safety and was common in the US until after WW2. It's still common in many countries today, empty chamber carry.

3 minutes ago, Moutinas said:

All good comments. Didn't think I'd have to state the obvious but here goes. I don't carry in the home, gun and holster come off and is secured. My empty chamber carry is only for when I'm off property while around grandchildren. Hope that makes more sense. Yes to good holster and retention, also obvious. Just thought I'd mention this for anyone else who sees the little ones on visits. It's an extra layer of safety and was common in the US until after WW2. It's still common in many countries today, empty chamber carry.

My habits are the opposite. Once the gun is holstered up on my belt it stays there until I have to take it off (such as going to pick my kid up from school) or I go to bed.

The more a gun is handled, the greater the chance of a mishap. There is a reason police locker rooms have a loading/unloading station equipped with a bullet trap.

When I do take my gun off, it stays loaded and goes directly into a quick access safe in my home.

Carrying with an empty chamber is not common. In a few jurisdictions it is required by law (e.g. Israel) but since Col. Jeff Cooper had a few ideas it is not the preferred practice. Equally, prior to WW2, standing sideways and extending your pistol one handed was the 'proper' way to engage your adversary - that is not a preferred practice any more, either. 

 

1 hour ago, Mr.Stu said:

The more a gun is handled, the greater the chance of a mishap. There is a reason police locker rooms have a loading/unloading station equipped with a bullet trap.

I have a five gallon bucket of sand next to the safe. When loading or unloading the muzzle is pointing at the bucket.