So here is what is fueling my next impulse purchase for supporting my Black powder Faggotry habit..

 

 

Technical Specifications:

 

* Ships direct to you, no federal firearms dealer required

* Caliber: .31

* Barrel Length: 4 Inches

* No. of Grooves: 7

* Twist: Left

* Total Length: 9.5 Inches

* Weight: Baby Dragoon and Wells Fargo- 1.46 lbs, 1849 Pocket- 1.54 lbs

* Cylinder: 5 Shot, Engraved

* Grip: One-piece Walnut

* Finish: Frame- case hardened, Barrel- blued, Backstrap- brass, Trigger Guard- brass

 

With an on-going military contract, Colt turned his eye on the civilian market in 1848. The first civilian pocket revolver, known as the Baby Dragoon, was a 23 ounce, .31 caliber pistol that fit easily in a coat pocket or belt holster, but lacked a loading lever. The following year the 1849 Pocket Model with integrated loading lever hit the market and Colt's success in the civilian market was assured.

 

http://www.impactguns.com/store/340380.html

 

The weirdness of it.. makes me want it.. yes.. i will have to load it outside of the gun.. ugh.. my BP box is about to get heavier.. next is the LeMat... those old fckers was crazy i tell ya! Duckbill is on the list.. .

Hey I think blackpowders guns are awesome. Probably cost a fortune to fire but whatever makes ya happy man lol

So here is what is fueling my next impulse purchase for supporting my Black powder Faggotry habit..

 

 

Technical Specifications:

 

* Ships direct to you, no federal firearms dealer required

* Caliber: .31

* Barrel Length: 4 Inches

* No. of Grooves: 7

* Twist: Left

* Total Length: 9.5 Inches

* Weight: Baby Dragoon and Wells Fargo- 1.46 lbs, 1849 Pocket- 1.54 lbs

* Cylinder: 5 Shot, Engraved

* Grip: One-piece Walnut

* Finish: Frame- case hardened, Barrel- blued, Backstrap- brass, Trigger Guard- brass

 

With an on-going military contract, Colt turned his eye on the civilian market in 1848. The first civilian pocket revolver, known as the Baby Dragoon, was a 23 ounce, .31 caliber pistol that fit easily in a coat pocket or belt holster, but lacked a loading lever. The following year the 1849 Pocket Model with integrated loading lever hit the market and Colt's success in the civilian market was assured.

 

http://www.impactguns.com/store/340380.html

 

The weirdness of it.. makes me want it.. yes.. i will have to load it outside of the gun.. ugh.. my BP box is about to get heavier.. next is the LeMat... those old fckers was crazy i tell ya! Duckbill is on the list.. .

 

Just curious, why no permit required for this?

it looks like a gorgeous gun, I have no idea how to load or shoot it however (not that it ever stopped me before...)

i doubt if they will ship it to nj without an ffl - if they do + you receive it you have committed a felony -

Hey I think blackpowders guns are awesome. Probably cost a fortune to fire but whatever makes ya happy man lol

 

Humm.. I just did some quick math and it costs me about $0.56 a shot for my .50 caliber rifle.. so that's on par with most large caliber cartridge guns.. but I just got started, so I'm sure with buying in bulk, I can bring that number way way down.

i doubt if they will ship it to nj without an ffl - if they do + you receive it you have committed a felony -

 

Yeah, it's considered a Pistol in NJ, so if you want to receive it in NJ, it has to go to a FFL and you need a pistol permit.

 

However, an hour ride across the border to PA, and you can buy it just as easily as buying baby diapers, it's not a firearm in most states..

it looks like a gorgeous gun, I have no idea how to load or shoot it however (not that it ever stopped me before...)

 

Lol Tiny. It's not too hard.. powder, plus wad, plus bullet.. then smush down..

it looks like a gorgeous gun, I have no idea how to load or shoot it however (not that it ever stopped me before...)

 

Lol Tiny. It's not too hard.. powder, plus wad, plus bullet.. then smush down..

 

I cant blow my last permit on it however...

IMO, it's kind of stupid to get any Black powder guns on the books.

You can buy these "over the counter" at Cabela's in Hamburg, PA, no paperwork required. I may or may not know people who live in NJ who may or may not have done this.

 

Are they actually breaking the law?

 

I don't think these guns are guns in NYC (witness the brouhaha over the black powder gun recently in the press), and I don't think they are guns in NJ. Can someone show actual law proving or disproving this?

They are considered guns in NJ (has the ability to injure or kill someone).. so you need a pistol purchase permit if you want to buy one IN NJ.

 

But it's not considered a gun in PA, so as you said, you just go to the store, and the guy hands it to you, you walk up to the counter and pay.

 

Seeing as the pistol purchase permit in NJ is for purchase and has nothing to do with possession, it's perfectly OK to buy one and bring it back. Same thing with BB guns.

They are considered guns in NJ (has the ability to injure or kill someone).. so you need a pistol purchase permit if you want to buy one IN NJ.

 

But it's not considered a gun in PA, so as you said, you just go to the store, and the guy hands it to you, you walk up to the counter and pay.

 

Seeing as the pistol purchase permit in NJ is for purchase and has nothing to do with possession,

it's perfectly OK to buy one and bring it back. Same thing with BB guns.

 

Once you cross the state line you have an ilegal gun.

They are considered guns in NJ (has the ability to injure or kill someone).. so you need a pistol purchase permit if you want to buy one IN NJ.

 

But it's not considered a gun in PA, so as you said, you just go to the store, and the guy hands it to you, you walk up to the counter and pay.

 

Seeing as the pistol purchase permit in NJ is for purchase and has nothing to do with possession,

it's perfectly OK to buy one and bring it back. Same thing with BB guns.

 

Once you cross the state line you have an ilegal gun.

 

How do you figure? The pistol purchase permit allows you to PURCHASE a pistol in NJ. It has nothing to do with possession of a pistol.

 

If I was a PA resident, and bought the Blackpowder gun in PA, then decided to move to NJ, I would have to do nothing additionally.

 

Blackpowder guns are not considered firearms by the ATF, and there are no interstate laws regarding FFL transfers on them.

How do you figure? The pistol purchase permit allows you to PURCHASE a pistol in NJ. It has nothing to do with possession of a pistol.

 

If I was a PA resident, and bought the Blackpowder gun in PA, then decided to move to NJ, I would have to do nothing additionally.

 

Blackpowder guns are not considered firearms by the ATF, and there are no interstate laws regarding FFL transfers on them.

 

What I'm saying, If you are a long term Jersey resident, you NEED a permit. If you are an out of state resident moving to Jersey no need for permit.

How do you figure? The pistol purchase permit allows you to PURCHASE a pistol in NJ. It has nothing to do with possession of a pistol.

 

If I was a PA resident, and bought the Blackpowder gun in PA, then decided to move to NJ, I would have to do nothing additionally.

 

Blackpowder guns are not considered firearms by the ATF, and there are no interstate laws regarding FFL transfers on them.

 

What I'm saying, If you are a long term Jersey resident, you NEED a permit. If you are an out of state resident moving to Jersey no need for permit.

 

this is a great discussion I wonder what the answer is though

How do you explain Blackpowder rifles then? Cabela's staff will hand blackpowder guns to you just as if you asked for a pair of boots. No paperwork required. Are you suggesting that a well established gun store such as Cabela's would be 1. breaking laws, and 2. encouraging NJ residents to break laws?

 

They are top notch and on the money when it comes to "real" guns.. they have the correct NJ paperwork there.

NJ only has jurisdiction on NJ. As long as the weapon is not prohibited in NJ (Which it isn't- Not semi-auto - doesn't even come close to the evil features list).. then they can't tell you what to do in other states. The ATF doesn't apply because it is not considered a firearm.

What about buying a black powder rifle in Joisey? Still a Nics and that state form, correct?

 

Id hate to be the test subject on buying that pistol

 

Uberti makes a nice gun, I have a 45LC cattleman (that I bought with a permit)

What about buying a black powder rifle in Joisey? Still a Nics and that state form, correct?

 

Id hate to be the test subject on buying that pistol

 

Uberti makes a nice gun, I have a 45LC cattleman (that I bought with a permit)

 

Hi Tiny, I'm not sure about a NIC's Check, but definitely the state form when in NJ.

We need a lawyer on the board to give us some advice on these matters. Not that they ever would, they would then be held responsible...

I

I

in the eyes of the n.j. state police + the attorney generals office you are an arms smuggler -

in the eyes of the n.j. state police + the attorney generals office you are an arms smuggler -

 

Well, i guess this is a sore topic.. but I would like to see if anyone can find a law (or even relevant case law) that is actually broken when this situation occurs.

in the eyes of the n.j. state police + the attorney generals office you are an arms smuggler -

 

Well, i guess this is a sore topic.. but I would like to see if anyone can find a law (or even relevant case law) that is actually broken when this situation occurs.

 

+1

Can you make straw purchases of black powder pistols?

 

Can you make straw purchases of black powder pistols?

 

 

In NJ it would be possible, although illegal.

in the eyes of the n.j. state police + the attorney generals office you are an arms smuggler -

 

Well, i guess this is a sore topic.. but I would like to see if anyone can find a law (or even relevant case law) that is actually broken when this situation occurs.

 

 

Let's get it straight, you can buy a black powder pistol or rifle, all legal, once you cross the state, the firearm is illegal why? You are a Jersey resident, if you can proof that the firearm was in your possession before you move into Jersey is all legal as with any other firearm that you may have. As a resident of Jersey you can't bring any pistols or revolvers into the state that you bought out of the state, long arms are legal. Since I moved to Florida I bought a G 22, if I move back to Jersey (no way) I don't need any permit for my G22.

in the eyes of the n.j. state police + the attorney generals office you are an arms smuggler -

 

Well, i guess this is a sore topic.. but I would like to see if anyone can find a law (or even relevant case law) that is actually broken when this situation occurs.

 

Let's get it straight, you can buy a black powder pistol or rifle, all legal, once you cross the state, the firearm is illegal why? You are a Jersey resident, if you can proof that the firearm was in your possession before you move into Jersey is all legal as with any other firearm that you may have. As a resident of Jersey you can't bring any pistols or revolvers into the state that you bought out of the state, long arms are legal. Since I moved to Florida I bought a G 22, if I move back to Jersey (no way) I don't need any permit for my G22.

 

Of course I know that you are not allowed to take possession of a modern pistol in another state where you are not a resident of (That's where the FFL Transfer comes in). This is a Federal Law.

 

Your explanation is treating a black powder gun the same as a modern gun, which the feds do not.

 

So, there are no federal laws which would be broken. NJ has no jurisdiction in Pennsylvania (or any other state).

 

No Pennsylvania Laws were being broken. No NJ Laws were being broken because the sale did not happen within the boundaries of NJ.

 

The black powder revolver is not illegal in NJ. It is not an assault weapon. There are no permits or cards or any paperwork required to OWN a firearm in NJ (black powder or modern). The only paperwork requirements govern the SALE of firearms within the state.