http://www.northjersey.com/news/crime_courts/61412297.html

 

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/09/wayne_cop_accidentally_packs_g.html

 

 

 

Question...when current LEOs carry off-duty in NJ, can they carry hollow points? I know retired/security can't...

I'd like to know he he got passed Newark Airport's amazing security without complying with Federal Regulations regarding the checking of firearms on a flight.

 

If I remember correctly, the firearm must be in it's own locked case, separate from ammunition, labeled gun, and declared to the airline/carrier.

Security at Newark Liberty never found the gun, and when the couple arrived in Cancun, they were in big trouble

 

 

http://www.northjersey.com/news/crime_courts/61412297.html

 

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/09/wayne_cop_accidentally_packs_g.html

 

 

 

Question...when current LEOs carry off-duty in NJ, can they carry hollow points? I know retired/security can't...

 

I have family(LEO's) who do. I wouldn't see why not, I thought there was something in the law that says a LEO is an LEO on duty or off, where there were some special regulations for part-timers.. like they have full police powers when in uniform, but not when off duty.. but what do I know.

Now this guy knows how the rest of us non LEOs feel in this state when it comes to owning and carrying firearms.

Now this guy knows how the rest of us non LEOs feel in this state when it comes to owning and carrying firearms.

 

And I guarantee he still doesn't see it that way.

http://www.northjersey.com/news/crime_courts/61412297.html

 

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/09/wayne_cop_accidentally_packs_g.html

 

 

 

Question...when current LEOs carry off-duty in NJ, can they carry hollow points? I know retired/security can't...

 

 

Yes, we can.

 

His gun was Checked in his baggage, he failed to Declare it which was Mistake #2, #1 was being dumb enough to take it to Mexico in the first place...ALTHOUGH I understand WHY he would with the gang problems they have in Mexico right now.

My son's friend, who travels a lot for business, got tired of the airlines losing his bags so he started flying with a "starter's pistol" in his bags and always declares it. They mark the bag special and he has not lost a bag in years since starting this.

I think saying he forgot he had it was the worst thing he could have said. Better he said he misinterpreted the "carry and travel guidelines" or something.

Being jammed up in a Mexican jail is not something I would wish on anyone.

yeah I agree, mexico doesn't mess around. Prisoners here get treated like luxury compared to mexico.

Being jammed up in a Mexican jail is not something I would wish on anyone.

 

 

Especially, in a country where they don't trust their own LEO's.

I am sorry but if this officer does not know the law or feel's he is above it after 12 years on the job then he should be loosing his job when he gets home. Both of my Brothers are LE one in NJ another was in DC now in MD, Neither carry their OD weapons out of state. If this officer cannot go to Mexico and feel safe then he is either going to the wrong part of Mexico or he should simply not go to Mexico.

 

If this was anyone of us non LEO's we would be left to rot, hell we would be left to rot in our own state if it

happened here.

Hodgie, I agree about him being stupid and should be in trouble for it, but being locked up in a Maxican Jail is not a good thing. When we would go there we all kept $50 in a seperate pocket for Federale Money.

I understand what you are saying on one hand but on another it's hard for me to fell bad for the guy.

Sometimes I watch that show locked up abroad, in most not all but most cases the people caught are smuggling

narcotics in and out of the countries with 0 tolerance for anything and very little human compassion. The show is informative

but some of the offenders try and get major sympathy from you.

 

I get it is 3rd world, I understand you are locked up with everyone, from mental patients to murders all in general population and the sentences do not fit the crime , but they are there for their actions that most of them willingly chose weather it be for a free vacation or a few thousand dollars. Everyone has to be responsible for their actions some time s--t happens but when you knowingly break the law's of 2 countries and get caught epically for something this this person would lock some Mexican up for doing if the roles were reversed and or me, that's when my sympathy card runs out. He is lucky he is a cop and had his chief make a call to their rep on his behalf or he would be over there for awhile.

 

I know it does not sound like it but I am pro LE in most cases, hell I support 3 PBA's 2 in NJ on in MD

and I do know what they deal with on a day to day bases, but there can not be 2 set's of law's one for

the common slob and another for the role models who are supposed to be enforcing those very same law's,

weather it be here or abroad.

Well put

99% of local armed Lords of Law Enforcement free they live by a different set of laws then we Surf's, as does 99.9% of Goverment.

99% of local armed Lords of Law Enforcement feel they live by a different set of laws then we serfs, as do 99.9% of Goverment.

 

Fixed that for you.

99% of local armed Lords of Law Enforcement free they live by a different set of laws then we Surf's, as does 99.9% of Goverment.

 

Wow, so you've personally talked to 99% of the Thirty thousand or so cops we have here in NJ?? I'm impressed.

I wouldn't say 99%, but I've definitely noticed that a good number of LE's in NJ do tend to put themselves above the average NJ citizen. Maybe that is where the argument is coming from. I have a few buddies in the NYPD, some in other PDs (Edison, New Brunswick), and some trying to transition into the career field... and most all of them disappoint me with their cavalier attitudes towards the job. As a former service member-type myself, I always put the emphasis on service, and not self-- right? Maybe its a military/Army thing (loyalty, duty, respect, selfless-service, honor, integrity, personal courage), but I see that lacking in the attitude of LEOs in NJ (I only say NJ because that is where most of my experience with LEOs derives from). Did I ever expect anything from anybody because I wore a uniform? No. Did I ever ask for some stupid discount, even in more military-friendly areas? No. Did I ever expect a thank you or some crappy medal? Never. Do I even care about any of that? Not really. Being a service member/civil servant is about the community. It is about upholding the values, protecting the values, and being a beacon in dark times. Its never about the money or the respect of it... and if people feel that way, they're in the wrong line of work and are probably going to get someone hurt or worse.

 

With that said, not every cop is like that. I highly respect the ones who understand where I'm coming from, and am proud and feel secure knowing they will be there. All the other ones? I could care less for, and I know they ultimately amount to just some taxes I have to pay.

 

But that's just me.

KpdPipes----If my memory severes me right the Keansburg Cops don't have such a sterling reputation. Dishonesty over ran that department big time. But then I'm sure you must know that? Would you like me to start on Middletown , Atlantic Highland or your choise. By the way where did you get the figure you used?

 

SEMPER PARATUS

and some trying to transition into the career field

 

So you base your comments on the attitudes of individuals that aren't yet in the law enforcement field? Judging by your comments, you probably know no more than a dozen personally (and that's probably on the high side) and yet you paint a broad picture of the entire profession. should I base my attitudes of the civilian firearm's owner my my experiences with illegal use by legal firearm's owners? I have more than a few to go on over thirty years.

 

As far as the individual who carried a handgun into Mexico, he's not too bright to make that mistake. It will cost him dearly. Most likely more than the average citizen.

Unfortunately, the good cop doesn't get written about on the internet or in the newspapers.

 

Or maybe it IS just the percentages

So you base your comments on the attitudes of individuals that aren't yet in the law enforcement field? Judging by your comments, you probably know no more than a dozen personally (and that's probably on the high side) and yet you paint a broad picture of the entire profession. should I base my attitudes of the civilian firearm's owner my my experiences with illegal use by legal firearm's owners? I have more than a few to go on over thirty years.

 

As far as the individual who carried a handgun into Mexico, he's not too bright to make that mistake. It will cost him dearly. Most likely more than the average citizen.

It could be based on one person, and that's one person too many. This issue matters a HUGE deal to me, and is the reason why I'm so adamant. I have nothing against the institution of law enforcement. Instead my issue stems from the fact that the responsibility of being more then just a person, and embodying a whole community (whether it is at the township, city, county, state, etc) is seen as advantageous when it is actually a very humbling position. All civil servants must always place the ones they protect above themselves, regardless of the situation... this is a given, right? But rarely do I see it practiced. I can say that when I wore the uniform, I woke up every morning to that thought. Every action I made, even if the action was based on muscle memory or SOP, was made with the welfare of every individual in this country put before mine and my own. Do I expect to hold others (civil servants) to that standard? Definitely. This reasoning is a partial reason for why I opted to leave the service instead of progress. I was tired of seeing service members and other civil servants not hold themselves to the standard, and ultimately fail the primary objective.

 

As for basing opinions off civilians? Civilians are not expected to be within the same standards expected from service members and civil servants. So, while an idiot will always be an idiot; a civil servant who breaks that code just once will be forever guilty of that.

KpdPipes----If my memory severes me right the Keansburg Cops don't have such a sterling reputation. Dishonesty over ran that department big time. But then I'm sure you must know that? Would you like me to start on Middletown , Atlantic Highland or your choise. By the way where did you get the figure you used?

 

SEMPER PARATUS

 

It just sounds like you have a issue with all LE period and no dpt would ever be up to your standard.

But rarely do I see it practiced

 

Based on your admittedly limited experience. I gather you have never worked in LE so what you base your opinions on are limited to a minuscule database. I have the feeling most of your experiences were gained from reading other suspect and biased experiences here on the internet.

 

In any case, your insistence that this individual somehow is being given preferential treatment seems odd in light of the fact that he has been arrested and incarcerated. Add to that the fact that it might possibly cost him his future employment. How many professions have that ability to lose ones job based on a rather minor conviction? Few do.

 

All of it could have been avoided if the incompetent civilians placed in the position of authority did their job in the first place. As that doesn't negate the fact that the individual possessing the firearm was negligent. No one has said he wasn't. It seems that some just look for the opening to put forth unsubstantiated comments.

 

I would have to say that based on your rational, the legal firearm owner is a threat to everyone as ninety percent of my experiences with homicides involving firearms were all involving legal owners. Raw data based on actual first hand experiences so I would have to say that you would agree with that assessment?

Honestly, my comments were not in regards to the OP (my apologies for that). My comments instead were redirected towards a certain mindset that seems to cripple the LE institution. Yes, I do believe there are righteous police officers in NJ, there just happens to also be cops that prove to be a grave hindrance as well. As for having first-hand LE experience, other then adhocing as an MP for six months, I admittedly do not have experience. However, I do have professional experience with LE's at the state and Federal level (which is what I'm basing most of my rhetoric on).

As for the OP, I do not expect any type of preferential treatment for the police officer in question-- I would expect the harshest of penalties to be applied by his direct superiors, and then corrective action taken against those superiors. I expect this because, as I've said, he is a measure of the standard that MUST BE upheld for civil servants.

And are legitimate gun owners a threat? Of course. Any individual is a threat. A gun is simply a force multiplier, making the individual that much more able to commit great violence. It could be argued all day the reasons of why, but if you're simply asking me if the average legitimate gun owner is a credible threat, then definitely, yes. Maybe that's an inflammatory comment, but no one can deny that having a gun is a force multiplier. [That does not mean the average gun owner is going to necessarily commit more crime. The same logic can be applied to suicides. Its a fact that generally speaking males will be more successful in suicide due to the "overkill" tendencies then females. Being a male does not necessarily mean they are at a higher probability of committing suicide-- on a 1-to-1 basis (I know the numbers of single, middle aged males are actually higher).

rscalzo----Thanks, I needn't make a case, your doing it just fine for me. 40 years USCG service, if you want to call that limited so be it. I never said that all were above the law, now did I? But hey whats just 1%, might as well say he (me) said 100% acording to you and KpdPipes. I will get down off my soap box now, I see my opinions seem to upset a few.

 

djg0770---Thank you for correcting my spelling. I had a stroke in 2007 and it left my motor skills, speach & spelling kinda in linbo. Wish Paul would include a spell check, lord knows I could use it.

 

 

Semper Paratus

Add to that the fact that it might possibly cost him his future employment. How many professions have that ability to lose ones job based on a rather minor conviction? Few do.

 

On the contrary. If I as a bank manager mishandle funds for another organization I most likely will lose my job. If I as a pharmacist am found to be transporting illegal drugs even though they have nothing to do with my pharmacy - I will lose my job and license. If I as a contractor build something on my own and it falls down - I will most likely lose my job.

 

Furthermore - what YOU see as a rather minor conviction would cost Joe Blow a shit load of trouble in NJ alone, nevermind Mexico.

 

To OP - I'm sorry you suffered a stroke and have to cope with the after effects. At least you've maintained the most important thing - life.

KpdPipes----If my memory severes me right the Keansburg Cops don't have such a sterling reputation. Dishonesty over ran that department big time. But then I'm sure you must know that? Would you like me to start on Middletown , Atlantic Highland or your choise. By the way where did you get the figure you used?

 

SEMPER PARATUS

 

You're absolutely right about the Burg..but you are ASSuming i work for Keansburg...which i Do not, nor any other place in Monmouth County. The PBA has something on the order of 36K active members in Municipal and Corrections, FOP probably another 10-12K, NJSP about 1200 If emeory serves correct. Take out the usual percentage for non-street people and you get around 30K as a rough estimate for the number of actual "Street" LE in the state. NATIONALLY, including Federal, State, local and Corrections people there was at last count around 880,000 LE in the us altogether, NOT counting your USCG compadres since they classify as Military and not LE per se, even though they cross over.

 

ETA: since youi rboguht it up, i Hope you are including your won service in that "Armed Lords" crack, since every Coastie I've ever stopped has tossed out their ID to me looking for courtesy...Also interestingly i wonder of your diataste also goes so far as the scads of USCG reserves who are also active LE, INCLUDING the Lt in charge of the Sea Marshal's Program out of USCG NY (Staten Island) who is, IIRC also a serving Morrostown PD Officer who is on active Duty with CG.