Ok Guys - I'm sure many of you saw the write up in American Rifleman about the Ruger SR-556.

I really like that rifle but I understand there is not a NJ legal version just yet - and according to the Ruger rep I spoke with today, none are in the works :x :x

 

So....I have been thinking about a Smith & Wesson M&P 15 ORC as I like that rifle a lot as well.

 

Now I have some questions for all you experts about the piston design as in 1 S&W model and the Ruger SR 556 vs the original gas tube design.

 

I want to hear it all boys! Any opinions, experiences, and links with good information are greatly appreciated!!!!

Thanks in advance and let her rip!

go to the HKPRO website and click on long guns! I want a HK MR SEVEN SIX TWO !! They are not out yet they say in the first quarter of next year but I hope sooner!

I do not have any hands on experience with the piston, but after seeing demos and reading about how clean the rifle stays I am leaning towrds one next time around.

While this illustration compares an HK and an M4, you can see how a piston system operates. The original AR design (gas impingement) directs the gases directly into the chamber to operate the action. This can get quite dirty after extended firing. The gas piston system uses the gas to operate a piston rod to cycle the bolt carrier group and vents the gas out the front of the rifle ahead of the handguard.

http://www.armytimes.com/projects/flash/2007_02_20_carbine/

While this illustration compares an HK and an M4, you can see how a piston system operates. The original AR design (gas impingement) directs the gases directly into the chamber to operate the action. This can get quite dirty after extended firing. The gas piston system uses the gas to operate a piston rod to cycle the bolt carrier group and vents the gas out the front of the rifle ahead of the handguard.

http://www.armytimes.com/projects/flash/2007_02_20_carbine/

 

It's also why an AK-47 can get a field cleaning of a sand encrusted t-shirt and still fire. The gas piston is a better design as far as reliability goes.

I am not convinced that the piston systems are really better, but if you want the Ruger get in touch with Paul (PK90) from http://www.arms-n-ammo.com/ as I think he can get one and then make it NJ legal for yu if you want.

I think it's funny when people say that DI guns are proven while the piston design is relatively new. Piston guns were around long before Stoner designed the AR. M14 anyone? Piston AR's marry the best qualities of the M14 (piston) and the AR (closed bolt).

If I was going to buy one I'd go POF. I've shot them but they are not worth the extra money IMHO. If there were the same price price as the DI system AR's I'd buy one.

The gas piston AR is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist for 99.9% of the members of this forum. Save yourself at least a grand and go buy a Bushmaster or something.

You can get a gas piston rifle for about 1100-1200.00 online as compared to the NJ rip off dealer prices. It's the next evolution the the AR platform and a good one, If the Military chooses to stay with the M-4 I for see them all becoming piston operated. As far as what the average Joe needs that's for him to decided.

 

I shoot an average of 800 round a month in my AK and then there is .22 rifles and pistols, If I were to do that with an AR then why not spend a few extra and get what is going to last and require less over all maintenance. we really do not need more then one rifle and pistol but it's just fun to have cool stuff.

Agreed, but my opinion still stands.

The gas piston AR is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist for 99.9% of the members of this forum.

This. There's nothing wrong with a gas piston AR.. but I wouldn't run out to buy one to replace my DI AR. If you're buying an AR for the first time, and a gas piston gun is in your price range, then by all means, go for it, but it's far from a necessity. Just keep the DI ARs well lubricated, and they work fine.

 

A good example are the ARs that Pat Rogers (http://www.eagtactical.com) has in his class that he lends out as loaners. If you believe him, and I have no particular reason not to, he has DI ARs with 10,000+ rounds thru them without being cleaned! He thoroughly lubes the BCG with Slip2000, but other than that, he claims he doesn't do a lick of cleaning

You can get a Gas piston upper for 650.00 now from CMMG the lower I just bought cost me 101.00 shipped, add the parts kit and some other small odd's and ends and I have a piston operated rifle for under 900.00 easily. Not bad at all if you want to go this route and you are on the cheap like me.

he has DI ARs with 10,000+ rounds thru them without being cleaned! He thoroughly lubes the BCG with Slip2000, but other than that, he claims he doesn't do a lick of cleaning

I just wouldn't want to be the one shooting round 10,001! Haha, seriously though, its pretty amazing all things considered. But regarding topic, its true. Gas pistons really shine in certain situations with certain factors (ie. the ghan w/ its dry cold and dirt and crap kicking up everywhere)... but for the average consumer, not a necessity. But hell, if you can afford it and want it, go for it.

I just wouldn't want to be the one shooting round 10,001!

You can get a Gas piston upper for 650.00 now from CMMG the lower I just bought cost me 101.00 shipped, add the parts kit and some other small odd's and ends and I have a piston operated rifle for under 900.00 easily. Not bad at all if you want to go this route and you are on the cheap like me.

I could only find Gas system conversion on their website. Do you have the link to the upper?

2nd one down, It is $675.00 not $650.00 my mistake.

http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/?ca ... 12&cat=96&

2nd one down, It is $675.00 not $650.00 my mistake.

http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/?ca ... 12&cat=96&

Thanks

Here are some experiences people have with gas piston system. In short, it could be less accurate than DI

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b ... 6&t=316338

Those posts were from 2 years ago, they like anything else they have come along way since.

The new Ruger piston rifle is supposed to be very accurate as well as the HK.

 

I am in the process now of building an AR it will most likely be gas but it's always nice to have options.

Those posts were from 2 years ago, they like anything else they have come along way since.

The new Ruger piston rifle is supposed to be very accurate as well as the HK.

 

I am in the process now of building an AR it will most likely be gas but it's always nice to have options.

The posts at the end of that thread were posted this year. I agree with you that things should be improved.

The gas piston AR is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist for 99.9% of the members of this forum. Save yourself at least a grand and go buy a Bushmaster or something.

 

Make that 99.9% for anybody. Forty years ago I carried an M16A1 through some real crap and never had a malfunction. In basic I had a DI who had been in the 101st and he pounded it into our heads that a dirty rifle will get you killed. I took him at his word. You can do enough of a cleaning in two minutes to keep from having any malfunctions. As TA noted, and IMHO, the gas piston is a solution in search of a problem.

FWIW

YMMV

Hehe, the original M16s were machined differently then the current design (I'm sure someone can chime in here with specifics). Long story short, the economics and politics created a "cheapest bidder" situation that every service member is aware of (and unfortunately puts boots on the ground in irresponsible danger, ie. HMMWV armor [or lack there of]).

 

I've said it before, I do agree that the vast majority of users have no real application for such a system-- but if it is someone's prerogative, then go for it. I know that I will want one once I get some other firearms I want first (already have a black rifle).

Hehe, the original M16s were machined differently then the current design (I'm sure someone can chime in here with specifics). Long story short, the economics and politics created a "cheapest bidder" situation that every service member is aware of (and unfortunately puts boots on the ground in irresponsible danger, ie. HMMWV armor [or lack there of]).

 

I've said it before, I do agree that the vast majority of users have no real application for such a system-- but if it is someone's prerogative, then go for it. I know that I will want one once I get some other firearms I want first (already have a black rifle).

 

Humvees were never intended to be armored, or used in the roles it is used today. It was designed for a different use in a different kind of war.

 

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... N%26um%3D1

 

JTLV is going to be awesome though.

Yea, I had the chance to ride around in what the Brits are using-- and that vehicle is just amazing. Personally, I think we should take a look at some Russian designs, but the Brits have the right idea. JLTVs are nice, but it seems like the MRAP might beat it too the punch? I don't know enough, nor am I a mechanic or engineer that has specialized knowledge. Whichever is the greater force multiplier I support.

To get back on topic, Nutnfancy did a decent side-by-side comparison of DI vs Piston ARs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6auXTiqNtEo

To get back on topic, Nutnfancy did a decent side-by-side comparison of DI vs Piston ARs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6auXTiqNtEo

 

Thanks - that was awesome!

 

I love this forum!

i picked up an 18" POF upper a while ago... not because i feel there is anything wrong with any of my gas guns but because i wanted one. it's nice and tight and very solid mounted on top of the LMT lower i have it on. i don't think you'd really see the so-called advantages of the gas-piston designs unless you have one on top of a full-auto lower and really get a chance to wring it out. i do intend on optics but for now i can get a bit over moa accuracy with open sights out to about 100 yards.

 

 

To get back on topic, Nutnfancy did a decent side-by-side comparison of DI vs Piston ARs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6auXTiqNtEo

 

Thanks for that. Nutnfancy really breaks it down properly.

To get back on topic, Nutnfancy did a decent side-by-side comparison of DI vs Piston ARs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6auXTiqNtEo

 

Thanks for that. Nutnfancy really breaks it down properly.

 

I like this guy but he compares everything to Glock, like they make the greatest handgun ever! But that's a good video and he knows his stuff.