Whipped this up this afternoon:

 

Try it in a neighborhood like that and you will still find yourself surrounded by the swat team.

can be concealed.

Up here in Sussex County....we have a bear problem...so when i am in the yard working etc I carry the SA .45Colt

 

Not ever had a blink form the neighbors...but then again where i live almost every house has at least a shotgun in it.

 

I've been leaving for the range and had my neighbors come over to check out my guns.

 

As to the bears, it's why I want to get a .44. I'm sure if I shoot it enough with my 9mm, it'll die but I'd rather have bang, thud, than bang, bang, bang, oh sh!$, bang bang, roar, bang, bang, bang, bang, thud.

I always thought you can't ccw outside of your home? Are you sure your property is ok?

I always thought you can't ccw outside of your home? Are you sure your property is ok?

 

 

I was gonna say the same thing..... but I thought I was gonna get blasted for it.. :shifty:

Troy I get blasted either way so I figured I'd mention it! lol

 

I may be wrong, but I always thought that, never really looked into it. I was always under the impression that you can ccw all day long in the house, but take one step outside and its a no no. From what I gather thats how it is in a self defense situation also, can't shoot anyone outside, and if you do inside you'd better have a damn good reason ( no means of escape, no place to retreat, in fear of your life, etc.)

The law says "property".

Paul, does the same apply to commercial?

Chad,

 

e.Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent a person keeping or carrying about his place of business, residence, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, any firearm, or from carrying the same, in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section, from any place of purchase to his residence or place of business, between his dwelling and his place of business, between one place of business or residence and another when moving, or between his dwelling or place of business and place where such firearms are repaired, for the purpose of repair. For the purposes of this section, a place of business shall be deemed to be a fixed location.

 

2C:39-5 Unlawful possession of weapons.

 

2C:39-5. Unlawful possession of weapons. a. Machine guns. Any person who knowingly has in his possession a machine gun or any instrument or device adaptable for use as a machine gun, without being licensed to do so as provided in N.J.S.2C:58-5, is guilty of a crime of the second degree.

 

b.Handguns. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any handgun, including any antique handgun, without first having obtained a permit to carry the same as provided in N.J.S.2C:58-4, is guilty of a crime of the third degree if the handgun is in the nature of an air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed or other gas or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by compressed air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person. Otherwise it is a crime of the second degree.

 

c.Rifles and shotguns. (1) Any person who knowingly has in his possession any rifle or shotgun without having first obtained a firearms purchaser identification card in accordance with the provisions of N.J.S.2C:58-3, is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

 

(2)Unless otherwise permitted by law, any person who knowingly has in his possession any loaded rifle or shotgun is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

 

d.Other weapons. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any other weapon under circumstances not manifestly appropriate for such lawful uses as it may have is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

 

I would love to ask the LEO's what their interpretation of this is as it seems to me as though you are legal to carry at your place of business (if you are the Owner) without a carry permit.

Paul, does the same apply to commercial?

See above. If you are the OWNER, you can carry openly or concealed.

Oh Lord, it will be High Noon at the Car Wash.

NJ does not differentiate between open and concealed carry. So you may carry on your property openly or concealed.

 

As far as the business exemption, you don't have to own the property, you just have to be the owner of the business (i.e., leasing a store front).

if your ever in monmouth county, and see a man outside mowing the lawn with a springfield MC operator strapped to his hip in a serpa holster, you may have just found out where i live.

you can't ccw outside of your home

 

Property means the confines of the lot your home is on. I don't agree with the image as your property line usually runs to the roadway. You are required to maintain it and will be responsible liability wise if an incident occurs on it. The law does allow for passage on the sidewalk on your "property" for obvious reasons. So if you want to step on your sidewalk, go ahead as long as you don't in anyway impede foot traffic.

 

Carry in a place of work, as pointed out requires the permission of the property owner if not personally owned. The only cloudy issue is if the actual property owner incurs any liability for the firearm on their property.

I was under the impression you can only OC within the confines of your property aka behind a large enough fence to be considered private area. I don't think I would test OCing in my front yard -- cops would be here in 2 seconds. CC, on the other hand, I do every day.

I was under the impression you can only OC within the confines of your property aka behind a large enough fence to be considered private area.

 

While it might be prudent ands save you some aggravation, it is not contained in the law. determining what if any effect it would have in the surrounding neighborhood is impossible to judge not knowing the layout of everyone's property. In a tight urban area, walking around in front of the home would undoubtedly attract attention. In the urban areas up here it does even though it is legal.

From what I gather thats how it is in a self defense situation also, can't shoot anyone outside, and if you do inside you'd better have a damn good reason ( no means of escape, no place to retreat, in fear of your life, etc.)

 

 

I got blasted the other day when I saing NJ had NO Castle Doctrine. I was told NJ has a Castle Doctrine but not TOO Strong. LOL

 

What you have posted above is my understanding of NJ Law. That's some castle isn't it. LOL

Nice topic, I've been following it since it started. I want to say I was in the same boat who thought the NJ laws dictated you couldn't carry beyond the entrances/exits to our homes.

if you do inside you'd better have a damn good reason

 

That is pretty much a basic concept in the use of deadly force. The term Castle Doctrine to some seems to imply a lack of possibility of prosecution which is doesn't.

 

The laws of NJ were last amended in 1987. reading the statute provides little help. The laws as written are simply guidelines to be used in the determination of guilt or innocence in a court of law for the most part. Case law over the last 20 something years has shaped how these laws are applied and only by review of these areas will anyone get a hint at how the state courts will react. Add to that the possible federal implications and the additional civil areas and it is far from a simple determination what works and what doesn't. A dated example is the use of such force in the protection of property which throughout the years has been struck down in numerous cases beyond any other factors.

 

Taking advice from an unknown source, ANY unknown source is a sure way to get screwed. Way too many gain their supposed credibility by reading other unknown sources. Anyone who feels the need to own a firearm had better gain their knowledge from a quality source. Unfortunately they are far and few between. I know a few lawyers whose judgment in the area I would trust Some better known lawyers who claim to be knowledgeable have shown recently to be far from competent in some areas of criminal defense. Unfortunately their competent now has their client behind bars.

 

I find it almost comical that some i know spend hours trying to determine the best holster, grips, aftermarket sighting system or what ammo works for them yet don't spend a dime or more than a short time surfing the internet to determine what their responsibilities are in the use and responsibilities of a firearm. Trust me. You don't want to find out you don't have a clue when your case is before a Grand Jury.

rscalzo

 

Well said!

Try it in a neighborhood like that and you will still find yourself surrounded by the swat team.

 

That's for sure. If you feel the need to carry on your property, concealed would certainly seem the most prudent method. With the mindset of the typical Jersey Sheeple being as it is, you would be inviting a visit from the police and inviting the "man" into your life is never a good idea.

Chad,

 

e.Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent a person keeping or carrying about his place of business, residence, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, any firearm, or from carrying the same, in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section, from any place of purchase to his residence or place of business, between his dwelling and his place of business, between one place of business or residence and another when moving, or between his dwelling or place of business and place where such firearms are repaired, for the purpose of repair. For the purposes of this section, a place of business shall be deemed to be a fixed location.

 

2C:39-5 Unlawful possession of weapons.

 

2C:39-5. Unlawful possession of weapons. a. Machine guns. Any person who knowingly has in his possession a machine gun or any instrument or device adaptable for use as a machine gun, without being licensed to do so as provided in N.J.S.2C:58-5, is guilty of a crime of the second degree.

 

b.Handguns. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any handgun, including any antique handgun, without first having obtained a permit to carry the same as provided in N.J.S.2C:58-4, is guilty of a crime of the third degree if the handgun is in the nature of an air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed or other gas or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by compressed air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person. Otherwise it is a crime of the second degree.

 

c.Rifles and shotguns. (1) Any person who knowingly has in his possession any rifle or shotgun without having first obtained a firearms purchaser identification card in accordance with the provisions of N.J.S.2C:58-3, is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

 

(2)Unless otherwise permitted by law, any person who knowingly has in his possession any loaded rifle or shotgun is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

 

d.Other weapons. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any other weapon under circumstances not manifestly appropriate for such lawful uses as it may have is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

 

I would love to ask the LEO's what their interpretation of this is as it seems to me as though you are legal to carry at your place of business (if you are the Owner) without a carry permit.

 

That is my interpretation of it.

Oh Lord, it will be High Noon at the Car Wash.

I think you should cycle all your firearms through the wash to clean them. Just strap them to the roof and run the car through a few times.

Hey...thats not a bad idea! Especially taking into consideration how much I loathe cleaning firearms these days.

if you do inside you'd better have a damn good reason

 

That is pretty much a basic concept in the use of deadly force. The term Castle Doctrine to some seems to imply a lack of possibility of prosecution which is doesn't.

 

The laws of NJ were last amended in 1987. reading the statute provides little help. The laws as written are simply guidelines to be used in the determination of guilt or innocence in a court of law for the most part. Case law over the last 20 something years has shaped how these laws are applied and only by review of these areas will anyone get a hint at how the state courts will react. Add to that the possible federal implications and the additional civil areas and it is far from a simple determination what works and what doesn't. A dated example is the use of such force in the protection of property which throughout the years has been struck down in numerous cases beyond any other factors.

 

Taking advice from an unknown source, ANY unknown source is a sure way to get screwed. Way too many gain their supposed credibility by reading other unknown sources. Anyone who feels the need to own a firearm had better gain their knowledge from a quality source. Unfortunately they are far and few between. I know a few lawyers whose judgment in the area I would trust Some better known lawyers who claim to be knowledgeable have shown recently to be far from competent in some areas of criminal defense. Unfortunately their competent now has their client behind bars.

 

I find it almost comical that some i know spend hours trying to determine the best holster, grips, aftermarket sighting system or what ammo works for them yet don't spend a dime or more than a short time surfing the internet to determine what their responsibilities are in the use and responsibilities of a firearm. Trust me. You don't want to find out you don't have a clue when your case is before a Grand Jury.

 

I couldn't agree more, rscalzo. If you ask a question about NJ laws on an internet message board, you'll get 30 responses with 300 different interpretations and opinions. Ask your local police or a knowledgeable attorney!

Ask your local police

That could very well be a cra*shoot in itself. I know many that are well educated and know the law to a large degree but even the best of lawyers can't answer without researching the topic. I worked for a rather large law firm for many years and got to know several quite well and on a personal level. They aren't the sleaze that they are made out to be with few exceptions as any generalization would find. But the are highly specialized and know their area of expertise well and other areas outside that frame little without research. While not my prime function, many times I would have to school them in certain procedures. I gave one a Cliff book version of Breathalyzer operation until we realized it was my arrest and her client in another jurisdiction. One came crying to me she got a speeding ticket and I had to come to court with her. She had never been before a judge.

 

The point is, be wary of who you take advice from as it's your butt on the line.

Ask your local police

That could very well be a cra*shoot in itself. I know many that are well educated and know the law to a large degree but even the best of lawyers can't answer without researching the topic. I worked for a rather large law firm for many years and got to know several quite well and on a personal level. They aren't the sleaze that they are made out to be with few exceptions as any generalization would find. But the are highly specialized and know their area of expertise well and other areas outside that frame little without research. While not my prime function, many times I would have to school them in certain procedures. I gave one a Cliff book version of Breathalyzer operation until we realized it was my arrest and her client in another jurisdiction. One came crying to me she got a speeding ticket and I had to come to court with her. She had never been before a judge.

 

The point is, be wary of who you take advice from as it's your butt on the line.

 

I've found my local police dept. to be very helpful, friendly, and knowledgeable. They're the ones enforcing the laws...makes sense to me to ask them about the laws they are paid to enforce. If they tell me something is legal, then they're not going to give me grief about it.

 

I think we need to calm down. You only need to fear "the man" if you're doing something wrong, just as the Bible says...

Romans 13:3-5 (NLT) - For the authorities do not strike fear in people who are doing right, but in those who are doing wrong. Would you like to live without fear of the authorities? Do what is right, and they will honor you. The authorities are God

you can't ccw outside of your home

 

Property means the confines of the lot your home is on. I don't agree with the image as your property line usually runs to the roadway. You are required to maintain it and will be responsible liability wise if an incident occurs on it. The law does allow for passage on the sidewalk on your "property" for obvious reasons. So if you want to step on your sidewalk, go ahead as long as you don't in anyway impede foot traffic.

 

Where I live, the township owns the land between the curb and the far edge of the sidewalk. I'm sure that other municipalities are similar.

 

In fact, not too long ago there was a dead/dying tree that needed removal on my lot. But since it was on that strip of land that the township owns, they footed the bill for the tree removal because it wasn't my property.

Ask your local police

That could very well be a cra*shoot in itself. I know many that are well educated and know the law to a large degree but even the best of lawyers can't answer without researching the topic. I worked for a rather large law firm for many years and got to know several quite well and on a personal level. They aren't the sleaze that they are made out to be with few exceptions as any generalization would find. But the are highly specialized and know their area of expertise well and other areas outside that frame little without research. While not my prime function, many times I would have to school them in certain procedures. I gave one a Cliff book version of Breathalyzer operation until we realized it was my arrest and her client in another jurisdiction. One came crying to me she got a speeding ticket and I had to come to court with her. She had never been before a judge.

 

The point is, be wary of who you take advice from as it's your butt on the line.

 

I've found my local police dept. to be very helpful, friendly, and knowledgeable. They're the ones enforcing the laws...makes sense to me to ask them about the laws they are paid to enforce. If they tell me something is legal, then they're not going to give me grief about it.

 

I think we need to calm down. You only need to fear "the man" if you're doing something wrong, just as the Bible says...

Romans 13:3-5 (NLT) - For the authorities do not strike fear in people who are doing right, but in those who are doing wrong. Would you like to live without fear of the authorities? Do what is right, and they will honor you. The authorities are God