like dan said, open up the borders, competition will bring down premiums!!!

 

It won't solve the problem entirely but it sure will help.

 

I can't comment much on families not being able to afford insurance so I won't even breech that topic. I know I pay something like 400 dollars every 3 months for insurance but I have a private plan under my parents that give me insurance up to age 30 as long as I live under their roof. So I only pay for 3 months what most people pay for one.

lol.

 

how many times have you been muzzle swept at the range?

 

much like not every ejaculation deserves a name..... not everyone deserves to own a gun.a the very least they should be able to pass nics and be able to handle a firearm safely.

This is where we disagree. The Government has no busuness regulating Gun Ownership. It is a Right not to be infringed upon.

Buying healthcare acrross state lines is not goign to get the uninsured insured.

 

 

damn, biden is on the Olympic show.

 

I normally agree with you Maks but I'm going to whole heartedly disagree with you right now.

 

The uninsured can get insured by GOING AND PAYING FOR IT!

 

I've said it once and I'll say it again, pre-existing conditions like cancer etc should not affect your premiums. Being stupid and smoking SHOULD!!!!!!! affect your premiums.

 

No one should be denied PAY FOR insurance. Stop the fricken hand outs, get your butt out of your bed and go get a job and stop letting "the system" take care of you!

 

by uninsured, I am really talking about those families that cannot afford insurance.

 

An average premium for health insurance in New Jersey if you go out and buy it yourself is $500 a month for single, $1300 a month for a family of 3.

 

They can't afford it because doctors HAVE to charge alot to stay afloat. The average cost for malpractice insurance premiums are about 200k. Add that up for a year and then try to make a profit. Think tort reform would bring that cost down even a little??

 

Big Picture Maks... chicken or the egg...

 

Even I don't have health insurance and I want nothing to do with a healthcare plan. Cut the costs of healthcare, not take it over and make others pay for my coverage. And insurance companies have already raised the rates due to them even talking about healthcare... and that's being passed on to the employees having to pay more of a % for their coverage.

Tim I agree with Maks here but I also agree with you.

 

In a perfect world of politics, we could write rules and politics would stick to it, but once you give them one law, they want a 100 more because they have the power to do it.

 

Though I agree with Maks, I don't want Mr. Yahooo who can't shoot a gun for crap to have a CCW. I also don't want the 3 time convicted felon to be able to walk into a gun store and buy a gun. Sure he can get it on the streets, but its much easier to just walk into a store and buy it sometimes!!

like dan said, open up the borders, competition will bring down premiums!!!

 

It won't solve the problem entirely but it sure will help.

 

I can't comment much on families not being able to afford insurance so I won't even breech that topic. I know I pay something like 400 dollars every 3 months for insurance but I have a private plan under my parents that give me insurance up to age 30 as long as I live under their roof. So I only pay for 3 months what most people pay for one.

 

 

As someone who works in the industry, and with people bitching about their premiums, I can tell you barely opening up the borders is not going to solve it. Turn the radio off and think for yourself a bit.

 

Ok, Layman's insurance guide.... each state regulates the insurance and banking. In NJ, a commissioner appointed by the governer is head of the insurance regulation. If Aetna wants to sell their policies in NJ, they have to apply to the state commissioner to first, get approved as a company in NJ, and then submit their policy to be reviewed by the state.

 

Why? Because when the insurance company goes out of business, the state of NJ is there to guarantee that you will still get your policy benefits.

 

Big issue? The average wait in New Jersey for an insurance company to get a policy approved for sale in New Jersey is 3 years.

 

When a company has to do this for all 50 states, they just choose not to do it.

 

Furthermore, the real difference between the states is who gets covered.

 

In PA, there is no guarantee that you can get insurance, and you have to qualify health wife for it if individual, if group it is issued.

 

In New Jersey, no matter how sick you are, you are guaranteed an insurance policy....

AT THE SAME RATE AS A HEALTHY PERSON WHO NEVER TOUCHED A CIGARETTE IN THEIR LIFE!.

 

so lets take a look at a case I am familiar with... my own health insurance.

 

In New Jersey... I am paying $350 a month for an Amerihealth insurance policy for a 27 year old.

 

In PA, I would be paying $150 for the same plan.

I agreed and made this point above Maks.

 

There's no reason I or you should have to pay the same amount of money as someone who is a raging alcoholic or a chain smoker.

 

We all have our own choices, but someone else's choices should not affect me!

Tim I agree with Maks here but I also agree with you.

 

In a perfect world of politics, we could write rules and politics would stick to it, but once you give them one law, they want a 100 more because they have the power to do it.

 

Though I agree with Maks, I don't want Mr. Yahooo who can't shoot a gun for crap to have a CCW. I also don't want the 3 time convicted felon to be able to walk into a gun store and buy a gun. Sure he can get it on the streets, but its much easier to just walk into a store and buy it sometimes!!

Wow, talk about a Politician. You took both sides 3 time convicted felon sounds harsh but could have nothing to do with a violent crime. And he should stay in jail not to get convicted 3 times. We have loosened up too many laws and that is causing our problems. I think everyone should have the right to buy and/or carry without Government Regulation. The Country would be a safer place. I do not think there would be near the amount of accidents as you think. Have faith in the American Citizen, you may be surprised what would happen if we were treated like Adults.

When children rule, they will never look at others as adults, only children... yup, I said it.

 

Big Picture Maks... chicken or the egg...

 

Even I don't have health insurance and I want nothing to do with a healthcare plan. Cut the costs of healthcare, not take it over and make others pay for my coverage. And insurance companies have already raised the rates due to them even talking about healthcare... and that's being passed on to the employees having to pay more of a % for their coverage.

 

 

Both insurance companies and doctors are scammers. They both cut each other, and as result keep paying. Furthermore, what is insurance? Insurance is dividing the risk across a pool.

When healthy people choose not to pay for insurance because they would rather spend it on something else, premiums have to go up as now your total premium pool is all sick people.... as a result then sick people bitch about having higher premiums.

 

As far as insurance companies, they are a necessary evil. When I went to my doctor, she submitted a bill of $350 for a checkup... insurance paid doctor the customary rate of $50 for the 5 mins she spent with me.

 

Anastasia went to the same doctor, and HAS NO insurance.... my doctor charged her $150.

 

tell me that is right?

well see Tim the first problem is 3 time convicted felon, and then you saying he should sit in jail.

 

NO NO NO, if you are a 3 time convicted felon, you are a drain on the economy, you provide no benefit to society, it's time your number is called and your lights are shut off. Death penalty bub.

 

It would in my honest opinion make some want to be felons think before they go rob that bank!!

well see Tim the first problem is 3 time convicted felon, and then you saying he should sit in jail.

 

NO NO NO, if you are a 3 time convicted felon, you are a drain on the economy, you provide no benefit to society, it's time your number is called and your lights are shut off. Death penalty bub.

 

It would in my honest opinion make some want to be felons think before they go rob that bank!!

 

I say we buy out 25% of canada where no one lives.... build a giant fence, and throw all the thugs there, and let them colonize it.

 

Big Picture Maks... chicken or the egg...

 

Even I don't have health insurance and I want nothing to do with a healthcare plan. Cut the costs of healthcare, not take it over and make others pay for my coverage. And insurance companies have already raised the rates due to them even talking about healthcare... and that's being passed on to the employees having to pay more of a % for their coverage.

 

 

Both insurance companies and doctors are scammers. They both cut each other, and as result keep paying. Furthermore, what is insurance? Insurance is dividing the risk across a pool.

When healthy people choose not to pay for insurance because they would rather spend it on something else, premiums have to go up as now your total premium pool is all sick people.... as a result then sick people **** about having higher premiums.

 

As far as insurance companies, they are a necessary evil. When I went to my doctor, she submitted a bill of $350 for a checkup... insurance paid doctor the customary rate of $50 for the 5 mins she spent with me.

 

Anastasia went to the same doctor, and HAS NO insurance.... my doctor charged her $150.

 

tell me that is right?

 

Had they charged you and submitted $150 to the insurance company, the doctor would have recieved $20. Are the doctors right for submitting higher bills? Are the insurance companies right for taking such a large % and profit? The doctor can charge her less because its all profit, and he then gets 100%. She got charged $200 less than you, yet the doctor made $100 more from her than you... The system needs reform. Not a government takeover that will only put profit in even more pockets. And premiums WON'T go down that way.

well see Tim the first problem is 3 time convicted felon, and then you saying he should sit in jail.

 

NO NO NO, if you are a 3 time convicted felon, you are a drain on the economy, you provide no benefit to society, it's time your number is called and your lights are shut off. Death penalty bub.

 

It would in my honest opinion make some want to be felons think before they go rob that bank!!

He should never get out of Jail to be convicted 3 times. Send them out to Sherrif Joe. much cheaper. I am all for Sunday afternoon hangings by the way.

 

Big Picture Maks... chicken or the egg...

 

Even I don't have health insurance and I want nothing to do with a healthcare plan. Cut the costs of healthcare, not take it over and make others pay for my coverage. And insurance companies have already raised the rates due to them even talking about healthcare... and that's being passed on to the employees having to pay more of a % for their coverage.

 

 

Both insurance companies and doctors are scammers. They both cut each other, and as result keep paying. Furthermore, what is insurance? Insurance is dividing the risk across a pool.

When healthy people choose not to pay for insurance because they would rather spend it on something else, premiums have to go up as now your total premium pool is all sick people.... as a result then sick people **** about having higher premiums.

 

As far as insurance companies, they are a necessary evil. When I went to my doctor, she submitted a bill of $350 for a checkup... insurance paid doctor the customary rate of $50 for the 5 mins she spent with me.

 

Anastasia went to the same doctor, and HAS NO insurance.... my doctor charged her $150.

 

tell me that is right?

 

Had they charged you and submitted $150 to the insurance company, the doctor would have recieved $20. Are the doctors right for submitting higher bills? Are the insurance companies right for taking such a large % and profit? The doctor can charge her less because its all profit, and he then gets 100%. She got charged $200 less than you, yet the doctor made $100 more from her than you... The system needs reform. Not a government takeover that will only put profit in even more pockets. And premiums WON'T go down that way.

 

 

No, because I dont think the doctor deserves $150 for 5 mins.

 

The actual going rate is that much... and no, the doctor would be paid the $50 they deserved no matter how high of a bill they would submit.

 

They are all asswipes, actually. Btw... no one ever complains about insurance companies when they just paid for surgery... and the healthy people made up for it.

 

Want to hear the profit margin that insurance companies are working on? On average 1% to 3 %

 

And where do the profits go? To the shareholders... ie likely you if you own a share of any mutual fund... and policy holders if it is a mutual company.

I hate market economies

It's a very very bad cycle you are right Maks.

 

But you have to think about what Doctors have to do to become a doctor and then what they deserve to be paid.

 

For instance:

 

When I sit down at my desk and start to draw for work, my boss charges between 110-250 dollars an hour for my services. Now he's gone to school, sat for his tests and did his internship. Thats 5 years for school, 3 years for internship, and another year worth of tests. So he's got 9 years involved. If I was graduated I would have technically 5 years.

 

Now a doctor, who has done, 4 years undergrad, 3 years of master, and I think its another 3 years of internship, and there might be another 3 years in there somewhere else don't quote me. So you have between 10-13 years of schooling to become a doctor.

 

So maybe his 5 minute checkup should only cost 75 dollars instead of 150. But I will say that for what they do, they do deserve a much higher pay scale than some other jobs.

 

But the cost of malpractice insurance has got to go. It's why everything medically related is so expensive. But that starts another topic because are the lawyers at fault, or are the crappy doctors who caused the problem in the first place at fault. It's a cycle and it just goes round and a round.

 

This thread has gone TERRIBLY off topic!

I hate lawyers too

But the malpractice insurance is so high because the public thinks they are owed $5 million dollars because the doctor messed up setting their broken hand.

 

end of the day, it is all about the end consumer.... and voila...

 

market driven consumer economics.

1% to 3% of what number?

 

Add the number of patients a doctor must see to at $50 a patient to reach 200k a month just to cover insurance. Then add in rent, student loan payments from 8+ years of school, divided by # of doctors in the area, and then give me the % that they make. Doctors are going out of business left and right. Just because a few are in a specialized area doesn't mean every one is loaded. Leases let them look richer than they are, but most I know are in more debt than those in far less professions.

 

We need overall reform. And a government takeover of the healthcare system won't change any of this. It'll just dump 30million people onto medicaid which you've already mentioned is corrupt. Yup, that's the answer.

1 to 3% is their profit margin....

 

Ie if an insurance company collects 100k in premiums, they pay out 99k in claims, and their profits are 1k. 1k of total premiums collected = 1% ie their profit margin.

But the malpractice insurance is so high because the public thinks they are owed $5 million dollars because the doctor messed up setting their broken hand.

 

end of the day, it is all about the end consumer.... and voila...

 

market driven consumer economics.

I hate Market Economies. Have I said that before?

 

And the damn Lawyers fill these peoples heads with big $. I hate Lawyers too.

But the malpractice insurance is so high because the public thinks they are owed $5 million dollars because the doctor messed up setting their broken hand.

 

Exactly, but how do you fix this. If the doctor didn't fubar it, we wouldn't be in this situation. If the lawyers had more realistic numbers we wouldn't be in this situation. BUT if the lawyers didn't get big settlements, it would allow crappy doctors to stay crappy doctors and not go out of business.

 

Now brings me to a next point, if a crappy doctor is a crappy doctor, at which point should his license be taken away. AHHHHH this is now run by the government and we now have government intervention which we all don't want.

 

What it comes down to is, people no longer hold THEMSELVES accountable for their actions. There was a time when people use to take pride in their work. Now a days it's how fast and cheap can we get this done. And this isn't just with doctors. I see it in the construction field DAILY. The workmanship that comes out of some of these contractors these days is just down right scary.

http://www.usnews.com/money/blogs/flowc ... lains.html

 

so as of 2008, average was 4% now it is down to 1 to 3% as many healthy people drop their coverage.

But the malpractice insurance is so high because the public thinks they are owed $5 million dollars because the doctor messed up setting their broken hand.

 

end of the day, it is all about the end consumer.... and voila...

 

market driven consumer economics.

 

Tort reform.... repeated for umpteenth time. There are small fixes that will make overall sweeping changes. Gradual changes for the better are better than immediate changes for the worst.

you will NEVER find me without insurance. No way, no how. Today was yet another reason why I will never not have insurance. The same day surgery I had today would of bankrupt me!

If a doctor fucks up, and it is definitely his fault, his license should be taken away depending on number of complaints...

 

furthermore, his malpractice insurance rates will go up as he is higher risk.

 

Dentists are actually the wealthiest doctors, along with oral surgeons, and neuro surgeons.

 

If I do something wrong, and am Found guilty, Finra/SEC will either suspend my license, fine me, or revoke my licenses. why shouldnt it be the same for everyone?

 

same as auto insurance... higher risk means higher premiums.

But the insurance companies charge everyone higher rates due to the number of lawsuits. So what's the issue with tort reform? What's the issue with state lines? Is just being covered the goal even though your premiums would still go up, yet those that can't afford it now will still not be able to afford the goverment option with worse care?

 

I'm trying to figure out where you're going with all this....Its not the insurance companies faults, yet you want the goverment to take them over. People can't afford health care, yet you want everyone to have to pay for it...even though prices will go up. You say tort reform won't help, yet make the comment that the problem is that people sue for 5million over crap. You say doctors should pay more if they are proven guilty... and again, its something that would be fixed under tort reform.

 

I'm not trying to rile things up, you're just being very contradictory and confusing....

 

What positives do you see with the government healthcare plan?

too me it boils down to this.

 

The government should have NOOOOOO hand in a health care run program until they make medicaid work. And medicaid WILL NEVER WORK, therefore I don't want the government anywhere NEAR my healthcare.

 

though like John said, tort reform, open state lines, little steps will give us some help at least.

But the insurance companies charge everyone higher rates due to the number of lawsuits. So what's the issue with tort reform? What's the issue with state lines? Is just being covered the goal even though your premiums would still go up, yet those that can't afford it now will still not be able to afford the goverment option with worse care?

 

I'm trying to figure out where you're going with all this....Its not the insurance companies faults, yet you want the goverment to take them over. People can't afford health care, yet you want everyone to have to pay for it...even though prices will go up. You say tort reform won't help, yet make the comment that the problem is that people sue for 5million over crap. You say doctors should pay more if they are proven guilty... and again, its something that would be fixed under tort reform.

 

I'm not trying to rile things up, you're just being very contradictory and confusing....

 

What positives do you see with the government healthcare plan?

 

 

I am confused. =)

 

Tort reform has NOTHING TO DO WITH INSURANCE PREMIUMS.

 

Tort reform has to do with Malpractice Insurance that doctors pay.

 

 

hopefully that is more clear.

 

My solution is a few posts/pages up.

no tort reform has EVERYTHING to do with insurance premiums.

 

Becaue malpractice insurance causes doctors to charge more, and because doctors charge more, insurance companies are forced to pay more which inturn drives up premiums. See the connection now??