It only happens in NJ

 

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=5679

No Comment! Just the kind of thing that needs to be remembered in November!

:x this state really sucks :x

No Comment! Just the kind of thing that needs to be remembered in November!

 

Those are Senators in the US Congress up for election. They aren't the people that made these laws. They're the ones that go to Congress and try to get the rest of the country to have NJ's gun laws.

 

The people who make these state laws are up for election in 2011, 2013, and 2017 next. NJ follows a 2-4-4 cycle for the State Legislature.

No Comment! Just the kind of thing that needs to be remembered in November!

 

Federal judges are appointed by the president. It would be interesting to research who appointed the judges that came to this decision.

No Comment! Just the kind of thing that needs to be remembered in November!

 

Federal judges are appointed by the president. It would be interesting to research who appointed the judges that came to this decision.

 

My guess is either dumb or dumber (Bush and Bush)

 

My guess is either dumb or dumber (Bush and Bush)

 

Good guess. Here is the current composition of the 3rd Circuit of the US Court of Appeals:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Court_of_Appeals_for_the_Third_Circuit

 

Carter: 1

Reagan: 1

Clinton: 5

GWBush: 5

Obama: 1 (with one more pending)

 

Judge Jordan who wrote the opinion of the court was appointed by GWBush. The decision is here:

 

http://www.ca3.uscourts.gov/opinarch/092029p.pdf

 

However, a brief reading of the decision makes it clear the situation is complicated, and after reading the actual laws mentioned the one thing that is clear is that this isn't so clear. The bad thing is that this happened to the guy while he was trying to follow the law, and it's not clear what he could have done in the situation to follow the law, other than perhaps refuse to accept his luggage when the airline gave it back to him. The facts/background are sympathetic to the poor guy, but they have to follow the laws of the land (in this case, Federal law, not NJ law).

No Comment! Just the kind of thing that needs to be remembered in November!

 

Federal judges are appointed by the president. It would be interesting to research who appointed the judges that came to this decision.

 

My guess is either dumb or dumber (Bush and Bush)

 

disregard

No Comment! Just the kind of thing that needs to be remembered in November!

 

Those are Senators in the US Congress up for election. They aren't the people that made these laws. They're the ones that go to Congress and try to get the rest of the country to have NJ's gun laws.

 

The people who make these state laws are up for election in 2011, 2013, and 2017 next. NJ follows a 2-4-4 cycle for the State Legislature.

 

do you think your vote will change the law ?

 

I would sue the airline for putting me in that position..

No Comment! Just the kind of thing that needs to be remembered in November!

 

Correct response...

Well then technically (according to the letter of the law) isn't anyone who handles that firearm (regardless of how they came to be in possession of it) guilty of the same crime? For example, the baggage handlers? How about the airline itself? I mean, obviously they knew what was in the suitcase and handed it over to the passenger. They are enablers and an accessory. Wait a minute... if the Airline gave this guy a suitcase with a gun in it in NJ.. isn't that an illegal transfer???

So this is the end of the Revell case. This is clearly an outrage. The only legal course of action the man could have taken was...what?

 

Abandon his luggage? Couldn't they get you for that too? Improper disposition of a firearm or something?

 

This means that the Port Authority will do this again. PANYNJ needed slapped and they weren't.

Man, I would have just rented an car and made the 1 hour and 15 min drive to Allentown at that point.

 

But to another point about the article, It said you need a permit to possess a handgun in NJ, false and that he had illegal hollow points, false. I guess maybe that's why he was found not guilty?

 

If so, wouldn't it still be false arrest and imprisonment?

he had illegal hollow points, false.

 

Hollow Points are illegal to posses in NJ. One may simply keep them in their home, or transport them to and from an approved place such as hunting, approved shooting range, etc. under limited exemption.

 

Having them in your car, luggage, about your person, etc. when not engaged in activities specifically enumerated by the law is a crime.

 

It's the same with guns in NJ. All guns are illegal to own in NJ. One may possess them only by exemption for purposes specifically enumerated by the law, such as keeping them in the home, transporting them locked directly to and from a shooting range, etc.

It's the same with guns in NJ. All guns are illegal to own in NJ. One may possess them only by exemption for purposes specifically enumerated by the law,

 

I have heard this theory before and i do not think it is true and/or constitutional. Very true that NJ gun laws are intentionally written to be confusing, ambiguous and interpretive. I have not been able to find anything that supports the concept above. Please post if you have specific verbiage...

It's the same with guns in NJ. All guns are illegal to own in NJ. One may possess them only by exemption for purposes specifically enumerated by the law,

 

I have heard this theory before and i do not think it is true and/or constitutional. Very true that NJ gun laws are intentionally written to be confusing, ambiguous and interpretive. I have not been able to find anything that supports the concept above. Please post if you have specific verbiage...

 

2C: 39-2b Licenses and permits. When the legality of a person's conduct under this chapter depends on his

possession of a license or permit or on his having registered with or given notice to a particular

person or agency, it shall be presumed that he does not possess such a license or permit or has not

registered or given the required notice, until he establishes the contrary.

 

First you're presumed not to possess a license and then all firearms are presumed illegal unless licensed.

 

2C:39-5. Unlawful Possession of Weapons.

a. Machine guns. Any person who knowingly has in his possession a machine gun or any instrument

or device adaptable for use as a machine gun, without being licensed to do so as provided in

N.J.S.2C:58-5, is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

b. Handguns. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any handgun, including any antique

handgun without first having obtained a permit to carry the same as provided in N.J.S.2C:58-4, is

guilty of a crime of the third degree.

c. Rifles and shotguns. (1) Any person who knowingly has in his possession any rifle or shotgun

without having first obtained a firearms purchaser identification card in accordance with the

provisions of N.J.S.2C:58-3, is guilty of a crime of the third degree.(2) Unless otherwise permitted

by law, any person who knowingly has in his possession any loaded rifle or shotgun is guilty of a

crime of the third degree.

d. Other weapons. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any other weapon under

circumstances not manifestly appropriate for such lawful uses as it may have is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

 

It's a jail first, ask questions later policy.

 

It's not "We assume it's legal then investigate to determine legality" its "we presume it to be illegal, you have to prove otherwise"

It's the same with guns in NJ. All guns are illegal to own in NJ. One may possess them only by exemption for purposes specifically enumerated by the law,

 

I have heard this theory before and i do not think it is true and/or constitutional. Very true that NJ gun laws are intentionally written to be confusing, ambiguous and interpretive. I have not been able to find anything that supports the concept above. Please post if you have specific verbiage...

 

read the statute. it prohibits all firearms, THE goes on to list the exceptions. Chapter 39 of title 2C (Criminal Code).

Thanks for linking the specific statues for him, guys.

It's the same with guns in NJ. All guns are illegal to own in NJ. One may possess them only by exemption for purposes specifically enumerated by the law,

 

I have heard this theory before and i do not think it is true and/or constitutional. Very true that NJ gun laws are intentionally written to be confusing, ambiguous and interpretive. I have not been able to find anything that supports the concept above. Please post if you have specific verbiage...

 

2C: 39-2b Licenses and permits. When the legality of a person's conduct under this chapter depends on his

possession of a license or permit or on his having registered with or given notice to a particular

person or agency, it shall be presumed that he does not possess such a license or permit or has not

registered or given the required notice, until he establishes the contrary.

 

First you're presumed not to possess a license and then all firearms are presumed illegal unless licensed.

 

2C:39-5. Unlawful Possession of Weapons.

a. Machine guns. Any person who knowingly has in his possession a machine gun or any instrument

or device adaptable for use as a machine gun, without being licensed to do so as provided in

N.J.S.2C:58-5, is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

b. Handguns. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any handgun, including any antique

handgun without first having obtained a permit to carry the same as provided in N.J.S.2C:58-4, is

guilty of a crime of the third degree.

c. Rifles and shotguns. (1) Any person who knowingly has in his possession any rifle or shotgun

without having first obtained a firearms purchaser identification card in accordance with the

provisions of N.J.S.2C:58-3, is guilty of a crime of the third degree.(2) Unless otherwise permitted

by law, any person who knowingly has in his possession any loaded rifle or shotgun is guilty of a

crime of the third degree.

d. Other weapons. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any other weapon under

circumstances not manifestly appropriate for such lawful uses as it may have is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

 

It's a jail first, ask questions later policy.

 

It's not "We assume it's legal then investigate to determine legality" its "we presume it to be illegal, you have to prove otherwise"

 

So, from what I read here, carry your FID ANYTIME you are transporting a rifle or shotgun and for pistols, carry the proof of the firearms transfer that you received when you purchased your pistol (it should always be in your case). Am I correct that this will establish proof needed?

So, from what I read here, carry your FID ANYTIME you are transporting a rifle or shotgun and for pistols, carry the proof of the firearms transfer that you received when you purchased your pistol (it should always be in your case). Am I correct that this will establish proof needed?

 

I want to be very clear here.

 

Having your firearms purchase ID and pistol permits on you can never hurt.

 

That said, with the exemptions spelled out for having the firearms, neither your PP or FPID grant any legality where it would otherwise be legal to have the firearms.

 

This means, you are exempted taking a firearm to the range. Having a PP or FPID does not grant you anything, legally because you already are within one of the exemptions listed.

 

Notice the statutes above, having a pistol without a carry permit is not legal except within the exemptions. The pistol permits prove nothing.

 

Long guns however are slightly different. Think of a FPID as a carry permit for long guns. It _WILL_ grant legality in a situation where it is otherwise NOT legal to carry a long gun except in areas where no guns are permitted ever like a school. However, take note, the way the laws are written, you need your long gun to be cased and unloaded and ammo not readily available. You could legally carry a long gun, in a case, down a street if you didn't have any ammunition on you IF you have a purchaser ID. This is the way the statutes are written.

 

In the real world if a cop finds you with a gun, on the street, you're going to spend the next several days in a small room with iron bars. Don't do it.

 

Again, having proof that the guns are yours and having a purchaser ID on you when they are in the car is never a bad idea. Legally once it makes it into the courts, those documents will not provide you with any immunity. They will however help you prove your case to mr Fife who pulls you over and is unaware of the law.

So, from what I read here, carry your FID ANYTIME you are transporting a rifle or shotgun and for pistols, carry the proof of the firearms transfer that you received when you purchased your pistol (it should always be in your case). Am I correct that this will establish proof needed?

 

I want to be very clear here.

 

Having your firearms purchase ID and pistol permits on you can never hurt.

 

That said, with the exemptions spelled out for having the firearms, neither your PP or FPID grant any legality where it would otherwise be legal to have the firearms.

 

This means, you are exempted taking a firearm to the range. Having a PP or FPID does not grant you anything, legally because you already are within one of the exemptions listed.

 

Notice the statutes above, having a pistol without a carry permit is not legal except within the exemptions. The pistol permits prove nothing.

 

Long guns however are slightly different. Think of a FPID as a carry permit for long guns. It _WILL_ grant legality in a situation where it is otherwise NOT legal to carry a long gun except in areas where no guns are permitted ever like a school. However, take note, the way the laws are written, you need your long gun to be cased and unloaded and ammo not readily available. You could legally carry a long gun, in a case, down a street if you didn't have any ammunition on you IF you have a purchaser ID. This is the way the statutes are written.

 

In the real world if a cop finds you with a gun, on the street, you're going to spend the next several days in a small room with iron bars. Don't do it.

 

Again, having proof that the guns are yours and having a purchaser ID on you when they are in the car is never a bad idea. Legally once it makes it into the courts, those documents will not provide you with any immunity. They will however help you prove your case to mr Fife who pulls you over and is unaware of the law.

 

 

Very well said. Superb in fact.

agreed, thanks for the details Malsua!

The exemptions for possessing hollw-point ammo are essentially those for possessing a handgun

 

http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/about/fire_hollow.html

 

N.J.S.A 2C:39-3f(1) limits the possession of hollow nose ammunition. However, there is a general exception that allows for the purchase of this ammunition but restricts the possession of it to specified locations. This exception provides that:

 

(2) Nothing is sub section f (1) shall be construed to prevent a person from keeping such ammunition at his dwelling, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, or from carrying such ammunition from the place of purchase to said dwelling or land . . . [N.J.S.A 26:39-3g (2)].

 

Thus a person may purchase this ammunition and keep it within the confines of his property. Sub section f (1) further exempts from the prohibited possession of hollow nose ammunition "persons engaged in activities pursuant to N.J.S.A 2C:39-6f. . . ."

N.J.S.A 26:39-3f. (1).

 

Activities contained in N.J.S.A 26:39-6f. can be broken down as follows:

 

1.A member of a rifle or pistol club organized under rules of the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice and which filed its charter with the State Police;

2.A person engaged in hunting or target practice with a firearm legal for hunting in this State;

3.A person going directly to a target range, and;

4.A person going directly to an authorized place for "practice, match, target, trap or skeet shooting exhibitions."