hey. after having fun with my Zastava PAP it is time for me to move onto my next AK variation. the cheapest alternative that i believe i can afford at this time is Saiga. Unless somebody can suggest me sometin else that NJ legal. NOW the question is >>> wat caliber shud i get? and i know its really the question of personal preference 8)

For me its between 7.62X39 and .223

7.62X39 because i already have zastava PAP in the same caliber and i wud "save" on ammo

.223 because its our local all around caliber. (i really cant use 5.56mm ammo with it thou, rite?)

 

SO WAT DO U GUYS THINK/SUGGEST ?

 

PS sorry if i and dont go all :evil: on me or

If it's chambered for .223 you can't use 5.56 in it. If it's chambered in 5.56 you can use both. I would get the 7.62 x 39 since you already have a gun chambered in that caliber and I just like 7.62 x 39 in an AK.

If it's chambered for .223 you can't use 5.56 in it. If it's chambered in 5.56 you can use both. I would get the 7.62 x 39 since you already have a gun chambered in that caliber and I just like 7.62 x 39 in an AK.

 

No, a .223 marked Saiga will cycle 5.56 ammo just fine. This may be true for other guns, but it is not the case with Saigas.

 

That said, he should get a 7.62x39 anyway. .223 out of a barrel under 20" loses a lot of juice, not to mention you'd need to stock a new, more expensive caliber.

If you already have an AK, why not look into something else? Maybe a Kel-tec, Mini30, SKS, etc?

 

If not, go with a Saiga then and do the pistol grip conversion . Or if you wanna get something ultra cheap, get a WASR. Then you can interchange the WASR and PAP mags.

If you already have an AK, why not look into something else? Maybe a Kel-tec, Mini30, SKS, etc?

 

If not, go with a Saiga then and do the pistol grip conversion . Or if you wanna get something ultra cheap, get a WASR. Then you can interchange the WASR and PAP mags.

 

because AKs are cheap and incredibly reliable.. 8-)

 

gave my caliber recommendation in the other thread.. let us know what you end up with!

If it's chambered for .223 you can't use 5.56 in it. If it's chambered in 5.56 you can use both. I would get the 7.62 x 39 since you already have a gun chambered in that caliber and I just like 7.62 x 39 in an AK.

 

No, a .223 marked Saiga will cycle 5.56 ammo just fine. This may be true for other guns, but it is not the case with Saigas.

 

That said, he should get a 7.62x39 anyway. .223 out of a barrel under 20" loses a lot of juice, not to mention you'd need to stock a new, more expensive caliber.

 

That's why I said "chambered." I have seen guns marked .223 and chambered in 5.56. It's good to know it's chambered in 5.56. Thanks for the info.

If you already have an AK, why not look into something else? Maybe a Kel-tec, Mini30, SKS, etc?

 

If not, go with a Saiga then and do the pistol grip conversion . Or if you wanna get something ultra cheap, get a WASR. Then you can interchange the WASR and PAP mags.

 

oh sorry forgot to mention i also have SKS 8)

and dont really wanna get WASR cause i already have single stack Zastava. so im def wana get another AK that can accept double stock. (and , if citation is calling for it, easily modified to accept normal AK mags)

also im thinking if i get .223 to get an adapter to use AR mags 8)

so many ideas with no clue wat to do 8)

def not getting Kel-tec, Mini30 or sometin in that range. tried it >> hated it

my next level of investment is gonna b: M1A and PTR-91 , but thats in the future 8) too much money that i dont have

If you already have an AK, why not look into something else? Maybe a Kel-tec, Mini30, SKS, etc?

 

If not, go with a Saiga then and do the pistol grip conversion . Or if you wanna get something ultra cheap, get a WASR. Then you can interchange the WASR and PAP mags.

 

oh sorry forgot to mention i also have SKS 8)

and dont really wanna get WASR cause i already have single stack Zastava. so im def wana get another AK that can accept double stock. (and , if citation is calling for it, easily modified to accept normal AK mags)

also im thinking if i get .223 to get an adapter to use AR mags 8)

 

 

you can adapt the 7.62 Saiga to accept AK magazines

you can adapt the 223 Saiga to accept AR magazines

 

win win..

Check out Henderson Defense for their double stack WASR 10s. You can get one for $400 and they can make it NJ compliant for you. They make sure nothing is canted as well. You'll have to get your own mags.

 

http://www.hendersondefense.com/store/p ... -3p194.htm

Since no one else has mentioned it yet, If you're changing calibers you could go with a WASR-2 which I notiecd Henderson has for only $450. I bought 2K+ rounds of ammunition for less than $300 delivered. Good luck with that in either of the aforementioned calibers. Of course I haven't actually bought a rifle in 5.45 quite yet, (Well I've got everything except the receiver but I get a little bit ahead of myself sometimes) but when I do I'm set.

While the reviews of Henderson products seem good..

 

you can get a Saiga from Paul at Arms and Ammo.. you get to SEE the gun.. lol pick it up.. support a LOCAL shop AND site sponsor.. PLUS his price on that is only $360.. you can do a Saiga conversion for a little over $100 and have IMO a superior product.. some people seem to have great experience with the WASR, some don't... I have yet to read of any bad reviews when it comes to Saigas.. PLUS since you will be putting the gun together yourself.. you can learn a ton about AND handpick the parts you want to use.. the Saiga was the FIRST long gun I bought and restoring it really helped me learn a ton about the AK platform and how it works..

I agree 100%, im in the process converting mine learning more the AK platform. I have put over 400 rounds through my Saiga without a hicup...very well made.

I don't know Damaged, he asked for a rifle, not a project

 

Seriously though, I agree with you. I haven't purchased a Saiga (well not yet at least) but I have purchased many demilled AK's and several NDS receivers and nothing teaches you about the inner workings of the AK rifle like putting it together yourself. I've got a Bulgarian AK74 that is sitting towards the top of the pile and is begging me to order a new NDS2 soon.

 

The WASR and Saiga are fairly similar though with the exception that out of the box the Saiga has an even more dreadful fire control as they've pushed everything back and so use some weird trinker linkage? The actual rifles are both built of the standard Romanian AK design and receiver at their heart and can both be made more useful with the addition of a G2 trigger group and additional mods or am I incorrect? I've heard that the Saiga furniture isn't necessarily directly swappable with the standard AKM furniture but I'm not sure how much they really differ. Like I said I own neither a WASR nor a Saiga so I'm honestly curious.

The WASR and Saiga are fairly similar though with the exception that out of the box the Saiga has an even more dreadful fire control as they've pushed everything back and so use some weird trinker linkage? The actual rifles are both built of the standard Romanian AK design and receiver at their heart and can both be made more useful with the addition of a G2 trigger group and additional mods or am I incorrect? I've heard that the Saiga furniture isn't necessarily directly swappable with the standard AKM furniture but I'm not sure how much they really differ. Like I said I own neither a WASR nor a Saiga so I'm honestly curious.

 

The Saiga rifles are not built off of Romanian AK receivers. They are built off of genuine Izhmash (the original factory) AK-100 series parts (most parts are backwards compatible with 74 series parts as well). Once the three rivets on the bottom and two pins on the size are ground/punched out you are now holding a Saiga that can be configured in anything from a ban state platform all the way up to a full AK-100 restoration. Yes they use a crappy linkage trigger and Monte Carlo stock thanks to Bill Clinton's import treaty with Russia.

 

The Saigas accept standard AK stamped buttstocks and pistol grips for rear furniture. For front furniture, there are a number of Saiga specific options as well as being able to swap out the gas tube, gas block/sight block, handguard retainer and go with standard AK stamped handguards, or use an AK gas tube and take a shortcut with a bolt on retainer.

The WASR and Saiga are fairly similar though with the exception that out of the box the Saiga has an even more dreadful fire control as they've pushed everything back and so use some weird trinker linkage? The actual rifles are both built of the standard Romanian AK design and receiver at their heart and can both be made more useful with the addition of a G2 trigger group and additional mods or am I incorrect? I've heard that the Saiga furniture isn't necessarily directly swappable with the standard AKM furniture but I'm not sure how much they really differ. Like I said I own neither a WASR nor a Saiga so I'm honestly curious.

 

The Saiga rifles are not built off of Romanian AK receivers. They are built off of genuine Izhmash (the original factory) AK-100 series parts (most parts are backwards compatible with 74 series parts as well). Once the three rivets on the bottom and two pins on the size are ground/punched out you are now holding a SAIGA that can be configured in anything from a ban state platform all the way up to a full AK-100 restoration. Yes they use a crappy linkage trigger and Monte Carlo stock thanks to Bill Clinton's import treaty with Russia.

 

The Saigas accept standard AK stamped buttstocks and pistol grips for rear furniture. For front furniture, there are a number of Saiga specific options as well as being able to swap out the gas tube, gas block/sight block, handguard retainer and go with standard AK stamped handguards, or use an AK gas tube and take a shortcut with a bolt on retainer.

 

edited for legal clarity.. but yes.. your description is EXACTLY what I would have added had I not been engaged in PM activity.. LOL

 

Saiga = Real deal Russian goods.. this may be meaningless to some.. But for me knowing it was made in Russia is just a nice little added touch.. 8-)

Thanks for the info, for some reason I thought they were Romanian. I didn't realize they were made at Izhmash, but it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong Today

 

I see why you made the change to Saiga, I noticed after a quick search that they lack the standard Izhmash AK markings which sort of shoots my very short lived idea of a perfect Russian clone, but that's probably the closest you'll get without shelling out big money for demilled Russian parts.

 

I couldn't find them in a quick search but what are the differences with the GB and sight block (actually you didn't specify which one, the FSB and/or RSB?), just external dimensional differences to accomodate the spiffy furniture redesign or...? From what I can tell from the photos it looks like it uses a smooth Gas tube like an AMD but I'm guessing it must be the same length as the standard AKM gas tube?

 

Does anyone own the .308 variant and if so how does it shoot?

 

Thanks again for the info.

edited for legal clarity..

 

Thanks

 

I see why you made the change to Saiga, I noticed after a quick search that they lack the standard Izhmash AK markings which sort of shoots my very short lived idea of a perfect Russian clone, but that's probably the closest you'll get without shelling out big money for demilled Russian parts.

 

I couldn't find them in a quick search but what are the differences with the GB and sight block (actually you didn't specify which one, the FSB and/or RSB?), just external dimensional differences to accomodate the spiffy furniture redesign or...? From what I can tell from the photos it looks like it uses a smooth Gas tube like an AMD but I'm guessing it must be the same length as the standard AKM gas tube?

 

Yeah, they are as close as it gets though. Some of them even have the Y stamp and magazine well dimples for authentic looks as well. There is a guy on Saiga-12 forums who did a full-on AK-100 restoration, including mimicking marks, faux selector marks, and chasing down some really rare russian parts, it was a very impressive project.

 

The gas blocks are 90 degree ones, you could use a 45 degree gas block as well though as the .223/x39/5.45 barrels all have the AKM barrel outside diameter. The 308 has a larger OD barrel and takes proprietary front sight and gas blocks. The front sight blocks are positioned farther back from the muzzle for the 24mm threaded sight blocks on 74 series rifles but you could replace them older AKM series sight blocks closer to the muzzle. One thing that is a pain is that the FSBs are not pinned on for the new models, but pressed on with a dimple so to remove them you have to cut the front sight block off with a dremel.

 

They have no handguard retainers from the factory (the standard Saiga one screws into the receiver at the rear and has a track that hooks the front to the gas block pin, very sturdy. And it's made out of some god awful fiberglass monstrosity that takes a good beating and is a mess to cut, which is a really good handguard IMO) But you could shortcut with a bolt on, or remove the blocks and put a real one on.

 

And yeah, gas tube is the same length. AK74/100 gas tubes click right in, AKM tubes will fit after grinding the rear locking ramp of the tube a little (the angle of the Saiga/74/100 tubes is not as steep as the AKM ones)

We here are limited by our state laws. People elsewhere are limited only by their creativity (and wallets)

 

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While the reviews of Henderson products seem good..

 

you can get a Saiga from Paul at Arms and Ammo.. you get to SEE the gun.. lol pick it up.. support a LOCAL shop AND site sponsor.. PLUS his price on that is only $360.. you can do a Saiga conversion for a little over $100 and have IMO a superior product.. some people seem to have great experience with the WASR, some don't... I have yet to read of any bad reviews when it comes to Saigas.. PLUS since you will be putting the gun together yourself.. you can learn a ton about AND handpick the parts you want to use.. the Saiga was the FIRST long gun I bought and restoring it really helped me learn a ton about the AK platform and how it works..

 

ima def with u on this one. although it mite b cheaper to buy guns online from somewhere in the union, i prefer to go to the local shop and give them my cash. thats the only way to make sure that those good people stay in business my fellow newjerseyans.

WASRs >>>> i just dont trust Romanians ... i dont think they know how to do anytin rite... no offense to anybody whoz Romak over here 8)

im still undecided about wat caliber to get. so many variables to consider 8) maybe i shud just get both 8( my wife is gonna kill me

While the reviews of Henderson products seem good..

 

you can get a Saiga from Paul at Arms and Ammo.. you get to SEE the gun.. lol pick it up.. support a LOCAL shop AND site sponsor.. PLUS his price on that is only $360.. you can do a Saiga conversion for a little over $100 and have IMO a superior product.. some people seem to have great experience with the WASR, some don't... I have yet to read of any bad reviews when it comes to Saigas.. PLUS since you will be putting the gun together yourself.. you can learn a ton about AND handpick the parts you want to use.. the Saiga was the FIRST long gun I bought and restoring it really helped me learn a ton about the AK platform and how it works..

 

ima def with u on this one. although it mite b cheaper to buy guns online from somewhere in the union, i prefer to go to the local shop and give them my cash. thats the only way to make sure that those good people stay in business my fellow newjerseyans.

WASRs >>>> i just dont trust Romanians ... i dont think they know how to do anytin rite... no offense to anybody whoz Romak over here 8)

im still undecided about wat caliber to get. so many variables to consider 8) maybe i shud just get both 8( my wife is gonna kill me

 

 

Paul actually has really fair competitive prices on Saigas.. I actually DON'T think that when you consider transfer fees and shipping you will beat what Paul sells them for.. and as stated they are RIGHT there.. brand new in the box.. = )

 

223 OR 762 you really cant go wrong with either..

 

let us know how it goes.. and if you need any additional questions answered..

Just got back from Cabelas.

 

They have a couple WASRS for $309, DIRT CHEAP. Sights looked straight, gun looked...as good as a WASR can look.

 

I think I might get one next time I go.

 

Edit: And why do you want a double stack so bad? If we could have 30rders I would have gotten a double stack, but for 10rders, a single stack is fine.

Just got back from Cabelas.

 

They have a couple WASRS for $309, DIRT CHEAP. Sights looked straight, gun looked...as good as a WASR can look.

 

I think I might get one next time I go.

 

Edit: And why do you want a double stack so bad? If we could have 30rders I would have gotten a double stack, but for 10rders, a single stack is fine.

 

laws change.... people move..

I keep on forgetting not everyone is from Jersey on here.

 

Well the OP is in PA, then definitely get a double stack. Then you can get 100rd drums you lucky son of a...!

plus one for pk90(paul) with saigas! great price, brand new in box, quick transaction... i havent finished my restoration/conversion yet, but the hardest part the trigger restoration which really isnt hard at all is done. get a saiga its a really fun project...

Just got back from Cabelas.

 

They have a couple WASRS for $309, DIRT CHEAP. Sights looked straight, gun looked...as good as a WASR can look.

 

I think I might get one next time I go.

 

Edit: And why do you want a double stack so bad? If we could have 30rders I would have gotten a double stack, but for 10rders, a single stack is fine.

 

laws change.... people move..

 

yep yep. plus its more " genuine " i guess 8)

 

PS i am from NJ thou .... the best State in the Union 8)

Just got back from Cabelas.

 

They have a couple WASRS for $309, DIRT CHEAP. Sights looked straight, gun looked...as good as a WASR can look.

 

I think I might get one next time I go.

 

Edit: And why do you want a double stack so bad? If we could have 30rders I would have gotten a double stack, but for 10rders, a single stack is fine.

 

laws change.... people move..

 

yep yep. plus its more " genuine " i guess 8)

 

PS i am from NJ thou .... the best State in the Union 8)

 

oh wait.. do you LIVE in PA? if you live in PA then you should WITHOUT QUESTION get the Saiga..

 

laws change.... people move..

 

yep yep. plus its more " genuine " i guess 8)

 

PS i am from NJ thou .... the best State in the Union 8)

 

oh wait.. do you LIVE in PA? if you live in PA then you should WITHOUT QUESTION get the Saiga..

 

no no ima from NJ 8) live and work here ....

u too, rite? i mean with ur Saiga u go to NJ ranges, rite? cause im gonna steal the design from u 8)

If you lived in PA I'd say get a SBR'd Krink like in the photo above.

If you lived in PA I'd say get a SBR'd Krink like in the photo above.

 

 

krink is "cool" but it all depends on the end use.. but i dont know how all accurate a SBR AK is going to be at 75+ yards... If I lived in PA I would rather have a 16in barrel and folding stock.. this would give you the ability to go compact if needed but still retain the shooting characteristics of the full size rifle..

If you lived in PA I'd say get a SBR'd Krink like in the photo above.

 

 

krink is "cool" but it all depends on the end use.. but i dont know how all accurate a SBR AK is going to be at 75+ yards...

 

Typical SBR like a 5.45 Krinkov retains AK accuracy (man sized target) out to 200 meters. The 7.62x39 variants also perform very similar, as that round loses very little muzzle velocity out of shorter barrels, relatively speaking. I'm not sure why so many think SBR's are pistols or something, 14.5" M4's are 400 meter rifles as well.

 

Full sized barrel AK's retain AK accuracy (once again, these are MOMan rifles not MOA rifles) out to 400 meters or so.