I am looking to get a few new guns, 2 or 3 rifles, 1 shot gun, and maybe a few pistols. My questions are on the rifles and shot guns.

 

Let me start with giving you my purpose. I am beginning my collection for home/self defense purposes, but with a SHTF preparation in mind. Do I think that it will ever happen? I give it about a 50/50 chance within the next 10 years. But, that is a debate for another time, and not on topic. Just a way of helping you guys help me.

 

Rifles:

I am looking for a Piston operated rifle, ideally of the AR variants. Anyone have any advice on what models to seek out and what models to avoid? The only ones I've seen are the ACR and the impossible to find HK417. Ideally I would like a 5.56 nato round capability, not a regular .223/5.56 (cartridge differences, power and such)

 

Considered so far:

- HK417

- ACR

 

I also want a bolt action .223 or .308 rifle. Probably going with the .223 since ammo would be easier to come by. Keep in mind that this is going to be for hunting, either this year or in a SHTF situation.

 

Considered so far, but not very knowledgeable on specs:

- Remington 700 XCR II

- M40A3 (I see these occasionally, I was wondering how you would check authenticity, and yes, I know its a modded 700)

- R700 SPS

- R700 VTR

 

This will not be a hunting shotgun purchase, yet. This will be for home defense as well. All I know about shot guns are the automatic Benelli's I used in the USMC, and they kicked some ass. But for this application, I'm pretty sure I dont need a shotgun. The barrel should be short (legally) though, and I'm not looking for extended round capacity.

 

It should also be noted that I prefer corrosion resistant guns, like the XCR. Not a must, but a preference.

 

Eventually I plan on getting 3 Glocks as Back up guns to my main pistols. I already have a Sig 226 9mm and a Kimber Raptor Pro II 1911. I plan on getting a .40 at some point or a revolver with some personality(ie power).

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

If you're planning on hunting in NJ, you cannot use a centerfire rifle. Rimfire, shotgun, and muzzleloader only. I'll leave the rest of your questions up to someone else.

 

ETA: I'll throw in my limited knowledge anyway.

 

For a piston-driven battle rifle, add the Sig 556 to your list.

 

For a hunting rifle(if you're hunting in a different state), if you plan on shooting deer or something larger, I would step up to a .308 or larger caliber.

 

For a HD shotgun, the usual recommendation is a Mossberg 500, due to the low cost, cheap upgrades, and safety location.

Just went to the site, they claim the 556 is gas operated, not gas driven piston?

 

Edit: You meant the 516, and I just got a chub

I am looking to get a few new guns, 2 or 3 rifles, 1 shot gun, and maybe a few pistols. My questions are on the rifles and shot guns.

 

Let me start with giving you my purpose. I am beginning my collection for home/self defense purposes, but with a SHTF preparation in mind. Do I think that it will ever happen? I give it about a 50/50 chance within the next 10 years. But, that is a debate for another time, and not on topic. Just a way of helping you guys help me.

 

Get yourself a quality pump shotgun, the quality pistols and calibers like you've suggested are all fine, and a good positive turnbolt in an appropriate caliber. .308 would be my first choice followed by the .223. I have many friends who have rifles in their personal lockers and they've selected a simple but sturdy lever-action like a Marlin or Winchester (and some of these fellows use them in 3-gun competition to stay ready) in .357 Mag./.44 Magnum. A magazine capable of spitting 9 or 10 shots is still pretty formidable. With a sturdy peep sight with ghost ring they are very capable.

 

As for "a debate for another time," my answer to that question is it will never happen in this country. Maybe if you lived in Wyoming or Montana and were far away from civilization and services, I'd recommend the arsenal you are suggesting, but being stoked like that in New Jersey is simply a passioned hobby on how to spend your money. Defend your home to the exterior walls, for that's the furthest you'll be shooting. And if "SHTF" did happen, we'd be looking at martial law imposed and citizens powerless to do anything for themselves. Look at Katrina, a natural disaster that took place five years ago in an environment ill-equipped, ill-prepared and socially decrepit. Armed law-abiding citizens were frowned upon in some instances.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll_kv2Y0 ... re=related

http://www.nraila.org/multimedia/mmplay ... spx?id=105

Parker, I'd disagree on the Katrina thing a bit. I had a number of friends that went down there and did PMC work and they came back with some interesting perspectives. As well as there were several published accounts. In short there were blocks of families that were well armed, banded together and set up perimiters. Thos perimiters were tested but a well defended show of force resulted in them being left unscathed. A high contrast to the areas that ambulances were getting shot up because they didnt help the family of one victim or another.

 

I say buy all you can while you can..... Its a bonus they are fun to shoot just for fun or competition.

I just picked up a Mossberg 500 18.5" - great for HD.

If you are going to be shelling out the money for a Remmy 700, do yourself a favor and get it in .308 or 30-06. For a bolt action rifle, I just dont think the .223 would cut it. Both rounds are relatively accurate out to a couple hundred yards, depending on wind, but after that the .308 really shines over the .223. A lot of people say they wont be shooting that far though. I just think if you decide to put out that kind of money, you are better off getting it in a round that will be more effective.

In place of a Rem 700 you should look at Savage's as well. In most cases they cost less and are exceptionally accurate by out-of-the-box standards. I have a Savage 10 Precision Carbine in .308 that shoots quite well, and is pretty handy with a 20" Med Contour barrel...

 

I also would suggest a pump action shotgun, especially in NJ, since they are not as legally constricted as semi-auto shotguns are. Just something to think about.

In place of a Rem 700 you should look at Savage's as well. In most cases they cost less and are exceptionally accurate by out-of-the-box standards. I have a Savage 10 Precision Carbine in .308 that shoots quite well, and is pretty handy with a 20" Med Contour barrel...

 

I also would suggest a pump action shotgun, especially in NJ, since they are not as legally constricted as semi-auto shotguns are. Just something to think about.

 

I Agree, look at the Savage accutrigger rifles. I just picked a Savage 116 fss in 30.06, real nice shooter in Stainless for $500.

Ideally I would like a 5.56 nato round capability, not a regular .223/5.56 (cartridge differences, power and such)

 

 

I also want a bolt action .223 or .308 rifle. Probably going with the .223 since ammo would be easier to come by.

 

Not sure I understand what you're saying here. On one hand, you want the semi-auto to be chambered for 5.56. But you lose me when you say "not a regular .223/5.56".

 

Most AR platforms are chambered in 5.56 - and you can shoot .223 through those guns. Some are chambered in Wylde, which is a compromise between the two specs and, again, will shoot 5.56 or .223. There may be some AR's that are chambered solely for .223 - those you do not want to shoot 5.56 through.

 

Which brings me to my second point. Why get a S/A that shoots 5.56 (or .223), but then get a turnbolt that only shoots .223. It means that you will need to stockpile two types of ammo. I don't know of any commercial turnbolts that are chambered in 5.56 (not saying there aren't any, I just don't know of any), so if you need to stockpile two types of ammo anyway, you may as well make the second type the much more effective .308. It would also eliminate any chance of accidently loading a 5.56 round in you .223 turnbolt (although in reality, not much would be likely to happen).

 

One last thing in closing - the Sig 556 is indeed a piston driven rifle - as is the new 516 (Sig's AR platform).

 

Shotguns? Whatever floats your boat - pump / 18" barrel / sights / mag extension / pistol grip / light...whatever.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

Pizzabob... slight correction.

 

556 is a gas piston.

 

516 is gas.

Pizzabob... slight correction.

 

556 is a gas piston.

 

516 is gas.

 

MAKS, the 516 IS a gas piston system, like the 556 except with a three-position valve vs. the 556's two-position one. It is NOT a gas impingement system.

Pizza Bob is right, the SIG 516 is a piston AR w/ 3 or 4 gas position regulator. (Personally I think its a waste of Sig's time to get invested into the AR world when they could instead focus on the 556 series...)

YEs... you guys are right.

 

I think I was talking with Dan, or someone else about the Sig 516, and they mentioned it was going to be Gas.

 

Wow. they went Gas Piston on it... not bad

In place of a Rem 700 you should look at Savage's as well. In most cases they cost less and are exceptionally accurate by out-of-the-box standards. I have a Savage 10 Precision Carbine in .308 that shoots quite well, and is pretty handy with a 20" Med Contour barrel...

 

I also would suggest a pump action shotgun, especially in NJ, since they are not as legally constricted as semi-auto shotguns are. Just something to think about.

 

+1 on the Savage Precision Carbine. I was out at Fort Dix shooting mine today and had some nice touching 3 shot groups at 100 yards. It is a very accurate rifle.

My $0.02 on the shotgun:

 

Mossberg 500 or 590s are great; I have a Mossy 590A1 that helps me sleep like a baby every night. However, if you're partial to a pistol grip on your HD shotgun, look into a Remington 870. The Mossy slide release is poorly positioned when a pistol grip is attached.

 

pretty good comparison of both:

 

http://www.moodylonerswithhandguns.com/2010/01/07/a-brief-comparison-and-review-%E2%80%93-mossberg-590a1-and-remington-870-tactical/

interested in the 516.. never saw that before.. seems reasonably priced..

Despite the serious Mall-Ninja way in which the OP was written (and this thread subsequently abandoned by the OP), I'll bite. First of all, why would you buy an unproven weapon system for a SHTF situation?? The civilian version of the HK417 has yet to even be released, and even the 417 has only had a few years worth of field use. I know it's an HK, and I'm the first guy in line when someone's passing out HKoolaid, but you're going in the wrong direction. This is ESPECIALLY the case with the ACR, which is essentially a tarted up shrubmaster with a 1:9 barrel twist. Nobody's had meaningful trigger time with this thing. If you want a proven piston system, talk to the guys at LWRC. If you want an AR that has been proven to run for 10's of thousands of rounds without breaking, try a KAC.

 

As for the shotgun, buy a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 and call it a day.

 

Where'd you serve in the corps?

Where'd you serve in the core?

 

 

Around the seeds????

I have a SPS varmint .308 with a HS precision pro stock and it shoots like a DREAM! I also have a harris BRMS bipod, butler creek flip caps, a 20MOA picatinny rail, 6 screw rings torqued and lapped (I forget brand right now). And a blackhawk cheek pad/ammo loops/bag. Your welcome to come give it a whirl in Bridgewater sometime.

 

I can do this with 5 rounds at 100 yards. Ive also gotten 2.75" at 600 yards

Around the seeds????

Around the seeds????

 

Fixed, nice one regardless. Complete brain fart.

For a piston-driven battle rifle, add the Sig 556 to your list.

 

 

See notes below.

 

If you are going to be shelling out the money for a Remmy 700, do yourself a favor and get it in .308 or 30-06. For a bolt action rifle, I just dont think the .223 would cut it. Both rounds are relatively accurate out to a couple hundred yards, depending on wind, but after that the .308 really shines over the .223. A lot of people say they wont be shooting that far though. I just think if you decide to put out that kind of money, you are better off getting it in a round that will be more effective.

 

 

I think Im going to agree with you on this. No need in having that many rifles of basically the same caliber, anyway.

 

In place of a Rem 700 you should look at Savage's as well. In most cases they cost less and are exceptionally accurate by out-of-the-box standards. I have a Savage 10 Precision Carbine in .308 that shoots quite well, and is pretty handy with a 20" Med Contour barrel...

 

I also would suggest a pump action shotgun, especially in NJ, since they are not as legally constricted as semi-auto shotguns are. Just something to think about.

 

Will do, thanks for the advice. Are they as accurate/dependable?

 

Not sure I understand what you're saying here. On one hand, you want the semi-auto to be chambered for 5.56. But you lose me when you say "not a regular .223/5.56".

 

Most AR platforms are chambered in 5.56 - and you can shoot .223 through those guns. Some are chambered in Wylde, which is a compromise between the two specs and, again, will shoot 5.56 or .223. There may be some AR's that are chambered solely for .223 - those you do not want to shoot 5.56 through.

 

 

Nato Chambered and Civilian chambered are different, and this can cause issues with firing. The Nato jacket is thicker, IRC. I could be wrong though.

 

Which brings me to my second point. Why get a S/A that shoots 5.56 (or .223), but then get a turnbolt that only shoots .223. It means that you will need to stockpile two types of ammo. I don't know of any commercial turnbolts that are chambered in 5.56 (not saying there aren't any, I just don't know of any), so if you need to stockpile two types of ammo anyway, you may as well make the second type the much more effective .308. It would also eliminate any chance of accidently loading a 5.56 round in you .223 turnbolt (although in reality, not much would be likely to happen).

This is a good point. Going to have to go with this logic.

 

One last thing in closing - the Sig 556 is indeed a piston driven rifle - as is the new 516 (Sig's AR platform).

See notes below on this one.

 

Despite the serious Mall-Ninja way in which the OP was written (and this thread subsequently abandoned by the OP), I'll bite. First of all, why would you buy an unproven weapon system for a SHTF situation?? The civilian version of the HK417 has yet to even be released, and even the 417 has only had a few years worth of field use. I know it's an HK, and I'm the first guy in line when someone's passing out HKoolaid, but you're going in the wrong direction. This is ESPECIALLY the case with the ACR, which is essentially a tarted up shrubmaster with a 1:9 barrel twist. Nobody's had meaningful trigger time with this thing. If you want a proven piston system, talk to the guys at LWRC. If you want an AR that has been proven to run for 10's of thousands of rounds without breaking, try a KAC.

 

As for the shotgun, buy a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 and call it a day.

 

Where'd you serve in the corps?

 

Mall ninja? I just like to be thorough. I don't just skirt around on basic ideas or generalities. I wanted to put everything I was thinking out there so you guys could point me in the right direction. Also, my cat killed my laptop, and I have been busy with college and training. So now Im back

 

I understand what you mean with the new systems, though, the ACR is sweet in concept, but at 9+lbs and an awkward stock system Im not to keen on it, yet.

 

I was stationed in MCAS New River (Right next to Camp Lejuene) and was only deployed once, to Djibouti Africa no less.

 

Finally, unless they have failed to update their site, the 556 is Gas Operated, and the 516 is Piston. In all variations the 556 is gas, and the 516 is piston. So if there is something I am missing please let me know. Go to the specifications section in the links below:

Sig 556 Company Information

516 Company info

Yea, we corrected the notion that the 516 was NOT piston driven like the 556 in the following posts. Though, personally, I wouldn't touch the 516 yet... I've heard its nice, but I'd rather go with more established/credible manufacturers (for direct impingement rifles at least. I would've rather Sig done something more with their 556 models then create a 516... but that's a different argument).

 

As for the ACR, I agree that it hasn't had enough user time to get a variety of feedback. But the fact that its 1x9 isn't a huge deal, and IIRC they CL the barrel and chamber. Now, the reason why I'm not concerned about the fact that its 1x9 is because you can pick whether or not you want a 1x9 or 1x7 barrel. Here's the catch, and my biggest reason of why I don't want an ACR yet, there are no aftermarket parts that are readily available yet! I don't give a crud about stocks or hand guards (which are available on Bushmaster site). I'm concerned about the innards, the moving parts, etc. Being able to swap out a barrel (whether that's for a 1x7 16'', 14.5'', 18'', or 20'') is one of their huge selling points, but is a moot fact as they are not readily available yet. Also, I prefer to keep an extra bolt (with everything else) on hand-- not necessarily possible yet.

As for the weight, I believe its actually closer to 7.5lb, or maybe closer to 8lb flat (depending on which model)... Bushmaster has it listed at 7.3lb, but I've heard different. Still, I think its going to be pretty awesome in the next iteration... and hopefully the price will come down to the projected "every day man's rifle" MSRP, as they touted...

 

As for Wylde barrels, they can be reamed to accept 5.56.

 

If you opt to go the DI route for ARs, my only suggestion is to look at 14.5'' or 16'' Mid-length gas systems (all the rage right now) or even the dissipator models (rifle length hand guards/sight radius on a 16'' barrel). Both utilize the mid length gas system I believe, which, for the system is less wear and tear. It also shoots softer, and if you're using irons strictly-- it has a longer sight radius (which you, like me, might be use to as we trained up on 20'' M16s).

Yea, we corrected the notion that the 516 was NOT piston driven like the 556 in the following posts. Though, personally, I wouldn't touch the 516 yet... I've heard its nice, but I'd rather go with more established/credible manufacturers (for direct impingement rifles at least. I would've rather Sig done something more with their 556 models then create a 516... but that's a different argument).

 

 

According to Sig the 556 IS gas, the 516 is piston. I linked it.

Ah, thats right, we had this conversation on the forum actually. I stand corrected. Still, I wouldn't touch it. Far better options out there, and, no, I'm not sold on gas piston. No need to bring up that debate again though in this specific thread.

remington 700 in 7MM REM MAG IS THE BEST

the sig 556 is a Gas Piston.... trust me, I had one. Piston or not... there is still gas in the system. It is either Gas is used in the system to blow the BCG back, or in the piston's, the Gas is used to push the piston back.

 

Sig 556 is a civi version of the Sig 551. Has nothing to do with the Sig 516, which is a Sig'ed out AR. Also a Piston.

Will do, thanks for the advice. Are they as accurate/dependable?

 

I think the Savages are certainly as reliable and accurate as a Rem 700. The one difference will be aftermarket parts availability. There are a lot of option for parts for certain models from Savage, and less for others. That being said, if you want to drink a different color Kool-aid, buy a Savage!

I would take an ACR over any LWRC any day of the week!