Okay so here is the dealio......I have a pretty good idea of the different firearms Im looking at purchasing over the next couple years. Most of my purchasing will be to have a well rounded collection, i.e. pistol (probably 92FS), long range rifle, basic rifle (Zastava PAP, already have), short carbine (cx4 storm), shotgun (870).....wanting a different firearm for the different applications. I know what I want all except for a longer range rifle, Im pretty undecided about that. Now I put long range in quotation marks because right now I do not have any local ranges that I can shoot past 200 yards, nor do I really have the talent to accurately shoot past that far. So Im looking to build a rifle that can ACCURATELY shoot from 200-300 yards, possibly a little bit further if I find a longer shooting range.

 

Now, my two main choices thus far.....are a Rem 700 in .308, or an AR15 w/20" barrel in 5.56 (possibly .308 if I can find an upper I like). Since I am only going to be shooting out to 200-300 yards max, the 5.56 should hold accuracy just about as well as the .308, and I like the idea of having semi-automatic instead of bolt action....so Im kind of leaning towards the AR. However, Im looking for the thoughts and opinions of you experts!!! Please

the long range rifle in my safe is a mosin 91/30

Get the .308 700 SPS varmint. Heres some pics of mine and what it can do at 100 yards (5 rounds). Ive also gotten 2.75" at 600 yards. More powerfull and reliable than an AR and you can handload your rounds better for these than an AR (neck size only, seat the rounds out etc)

 

Your welcome to come give it a whirl in Bridgewater sometime.

 

BTW im honored that my quote is in your sig

 

On a budget, its hard to beat Savage. The other two rifles I am partial to in the lower end $$$ wise are the FN SPR and the Remy LTR.

My vote is for the Savage Model 10 precision Carbine.

 

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/18286-fort-dix-this-weekend/page__view__findpost__p__242069

Here is the one post to sum it all up and all those that will come.

 

Any rifle should be able to be shot well at 200 to 300 yards/meters. It is mostly the shooter. Long range where it will start making a difference is beyond 300.

 

I have seen guys with M1 Garands outshoot modern AR's at 200 yards, and vice versa.

 

For bolt action, Remington 700 or Savage 10 FP. Really good rifles.

 

For semi auto, just about any AR will shoot well at those distances. Wait for Shane to post his view on it.

On a budget, its hard to beat Savage. The other two rifles I am partial to in the lower end $$$ wise are the FN SPR and the Remy LTR.

 

Shane, your lower end is my upper end.

Those FN SPRs are really nice.

+1 for remington 700 sps and reloading my results arent great yet but still trying to find the right load first batch was 165gr nosler(green tip) with imr 4320 powder good results but not great. this round trying the 165 with reloader-15 and 168gr bullets with varget. really hope for better results.

+1 for remington 700 sps and reloading my results arent great yet but still trying to find the right load first batch was 165gr nosler(green tip) with imr 4320 powder good results but not great. this round trying the 165 with reloader-15 and 168gr bullets with varget. really hope for better results.

 

 

Not the thread jack....

 

I load 168 smk's with Reloader 15 and IMR 4895.

 

I tried with 8208xbr but just wasnt impressed. to boot, there was more felt recoil.

 

Reloader 15 felt the easiest on the shoulder and had decent results, right under 1 inch. Best results came from imr4895, with so far 5 shot groups at .5 moa out of a 700 VS of a bipod prone.

I understand that A LOT of accuracy depends on the rifle. I am looking for a rifle that I can progress into and develop my skill on. Ideally I would get both rifles, but I was looking for input from members who have owned one or the other. I know the .308 is more than capable of what I am looking for, and that the 5.56 is as well. However Im leaning towards the AR due to the simi-auto is definitely a plus for me. Im still undecided though :icon_neutral:

I understand that A LOT of accuracy depends on the rifle. I am looking for a rifle that I can progress into and develop my skill on. Ideally I would get both rifles, but I was looking for input from members who have owned one or the other. I know the .308 is more than capable of what I am looking for, and that the 5.56 is as well. However Im leaning towards the AR due to the simi-auto is definitely a plus for me. Im still undecided though :icon_neutral:

 

 

I feel one does not preclude the other. Most will have both.

 

An AR is an AR. Yes, they can be very accurate. HOWEVER, you have to decide what style of shooting that you do.

 

With an AR/AK/ other similar type weapon, I burn a ton of ammo, because it is about fun.

 

With a bolt action, 40 to 60 rounds is a good day. You may be shooting a round every few minutes.

 

I have both and personally, I prefer the bolt actions.

 

1. To me, taking my time, being aware of surroundings, looking down the scope is pure enjoyment.

2. Reloading. Reloading for bolt action is alot more precise and easier if you only shoot that brass in your rifle. Resizing the brass is not needed as you only neck size it, and trim the case once it starts going long. You cannot really do that in a semi auto.

3. It is alot cheaper to shoot..... for the ammo at least since you are burning through less of it... you will spend more money on it though typically. Scopes, mounts, etc.

I feel one does not preclude the other. Most will have both.

 

An AR is an AR. Yes, they can be very accurate. HOWEVER, you have to decide what style of shooting that you do.

 

With an AR/AK/ other similar type weapon, I burn a ton of ammo, because it is about fun.

 

With a bolt action, 40 to 60 rounds is a good day. You may be shooting a round every few minutes.

 

I have both and personally, I prefer the bolt actions.

 

1. To me, taking my time, being aware of surroundings, looking down the scope is pure enjoyment.

2. Reloading. Reloading for bolt action is alot more precise and easier if you only shoot that brass in your rifle. Resizing the brass is not needed as you only neck size it, and trim the case once it starts going long. You cannot really do that in a semi auto.

3. It is alot cheaper to shoot..... for the ammo at least since you are burning through less of it... you will spend more money on it though typically. Scopes, mounts, etc.

Well I would likely go with a similar scope for either firearm, as I am expecting the same performance out of both. But THANK YOU, this was exactly the type of post I was looking for.

If you want an accurate AR15-variant upper, go with a 16'' recce-type (mid-length), 18'' SPR, or the classic 20'' rifle length upper.

If you're looking for absolute precision though, I'd recommend a bolt action (which I can't really help you as bolt actions are way beyond my knowledge )

 

ETA: Along with the AR-types I mentioned, the 14.5'' mid-length systems will do the job just as effectively. The other options mentioned though can come in SS variations. And while I'm not a big fan of comp triggers, it'd be something worth thinking about if precision is the name of your game (as well as free floating the barrel).

if you are only looking for 300 yardsish.. and you are looking for something more powerful than .223.. you could pick up a simple AR chambered in 308.. while it will not be bolt gun accurate.. it should be accurate enough to keep your attention.. I would still like to pick up a bolt gun at some point.. but I am really happy with my AR in 308... it has shot well so far..

AGAIN +1 to what maks last post. i have a few ar's 20 rra upper varmint, 2 16" one heavy barrel and one light weight and a 700 308 i shoot 111 rounds on sat and i felt it, but very percise. in the same time frame with my ar it would be prob closer to 5-800 rounds. and if you looking at an ar in 308 now your talking alot of coin for ammo.

Awesome, thanks for all the input guys.

The key to the question is how much precision are you looking for at what distance. I have an AR pattern rifle that is easily 1000yd capable. BUT the simple fact is in the realm of precision rifle, semi's are harder to drive and less forgiving at the upper realm of precision. If your looking to hold 1.5MOA to 100 or even 300, that task is not that hard and can fairly easily be achieved by either platform. Go sub MOA at 300 and beyond and the needs start to climb.

 

Damagedworld, I contend that Semi's can be bolt gun accurate, its the shooter that usually isnt. My AR is probably the most accurate rifle in my safe just edging out the SRS, at least in my hands. Its last group fired was around .4 moa @ 300 yards.

The key to the question is how much precision are you looking for at what distance. I have an AR pattern rifle that is easily 1000yd capable. BUT the simple fact is in the realm of precision rifle, semi's are harder to drive and less forgiving at the upper realm of precision. If your looking to hold 1.5MOA to 100 or even 300, that task is not that hard and can fairly easily be achieved by either platform. Go sub MOA at 300 and beyond and the needs start to climb.

 

Damagedworld, I contend that Semi's can be bolt gun accurate, its the shooter that usually isnt. My AR is probably the most accurate rifle in my safe just edging out the SRS, at least in my hands. Its last group fired was around .4 moa @ 300 yards.

 

My Rock River Varmint A4 AR was the easiest gun to shoot well I have ever owned. It was 1/2 MOA from a steady rest at 100 yards. I have a Savage Bolt gun that has a steeper learning curve (which increases the satisfaction when you do shoot well with it, IMO). In the end, I suspect the Savage will hold up better accuracy at a distance, but that has more to do with the caliber difference than inherent precision of the gun. I don't think a quality AR takes a back seat to a bolt gun until the distances start climbing.

Wait, did I just repeat what Sane said?

...just edging out the SRS...

 

 

You have an SRS? Will you be my new best friend??? I have a friend in Wyoming with one - here's his...

 

 

These things are slicker than snot on a glass doorknob!

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

eh, I will be old fashioned. Get a GARAND! If you go to a high power match, I am sure you will see many there. They are accurate, historical and fun. Many of the shooters will be shooting groups with iron sights that rival many people with scopes.

 

 

...... massive amounts of drool ......

 

I have a Savage Model 10 Precision Carbine that is far more accurate then I am. I enjoy it

Yes I do. Heres a pic of my SRS 338LM and my Custom GA Precision .260 on a Noveske lower. Right now I have a trade offer for a new SCAR16 in black wit that 800 dollar Sufire light kit on it for the GAP!!!! What to do what to do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

It's official Shane. We have a love/hate relationship, and right now I hate you!

Wow Pizza Bob your friends and Shane guns are beautiful. Man is there ever a time that I look at a picture and realize that I don't want one? Nah doubt that will happen.

Thanks Jimmy, it was a Looooong road measured in many years to get there! The funny part is the guy that wants to trade the SCAR is the one who ended up with my AIAW but not from me. I sold it to someone else!

The key to the question is how much precision are you looking for at what distance. I have an AR pattern rifle that is easily 1000yd capable. BUT the simple fact is in the realm of precision rifle, semi's are harder to drive and less forgiving at the upper realm of precision. If your looking to hold 1.5MOA to 100 or even 300, that task is not that hard and can fairly easily be achieved by either platform. Go sub MOA at 300 and beyond and the needs start to climb.

 

Damagedworld, I contend that Semi's can be bolt gun accurate, its the shooter that usually isnt. My AR is probably the most accurate rifle in my safe just edging out the SRS, at least in my hands. Its last group fired was around .4 moa @ 300 yards.

 

 

I was just erroring on the side of avoiding a debate... B) I tend to agree.. my first couple shots with my AR (308) are normally solid.... but then I have a tendency to get trigger happy and they start to walk.. it IS without question my lack of control.. as opposed to the gun.. lol I want to upgrade the FCG and see just how good it can get..

It's official Shane. We have a love/hate relationship, and right now I hate you!

+1 *grumble*

I am thinking of a long(ish) range target rifle as well, but cannot afford to feed a .308 on a regular basis and cannot afford an AR. Reloading is not an option at this time. I do not know if I have the patience to deal with Russian surplus rifles either.

 

What about a bolt action .223? Is there a decently made and accurate rifle in that caliber for under $400? $300? Even less?

Savage Edge can be found in .223 I believe.

I am thinking of a long(ish) range target rifle as well, but cannot afford to feed a .308 on a regular basis and cannot afford an AR. Reloading is not an option at this time. I do not know if I have the patience to deal with Russian surplus rifles either.

 

What about a bolt action .223? Is there a decently made and accurate rifle in that caliber for under $400? $300? Even less?

 

How bout Swiss surplus? GP11 ammo isn't mosin cheap, but still very affordable, and sniper grade. K31's straight pull bolt is sweet!!!