I am still trying to grasp why you would want to have an automatic pistol. I mean WTF? Controlling a rifle in full fun mode is difficult enough, never mind a pistol. And when I mean control, I mean getting hits on target. Not spraying and praying. In my last class somebody let me run a few mags from his 9mm AR in full auto. It takes some practice and you have need to have a different stance then what you typically would have knocking out a few short bursts. I remember the first time I shot a M16 in full fun mode during basic, I kept thinking it wasn't like on TV.

I think it was for the "wow" factor that's all. I think the forward assist was a mistake though - just another thing to go wrong and break. I've seen videos of guys firing full auto glocks with no forward assist and they can control it fine.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sslSX-XLsQ

I wouldn't call that controlled. He was consistantly getting higher on the second mag. Like starting at the chest and ending at the scalp.

Full auto is good for two things:

1. Missing your target

2. Running out of ammo

Full auto is good for two things:

1. Missing your target

2. Running out of ammo

 

3. Suppression fire. Since most of us will never need that, the first two become quite a bit more meaningful.

How did that happen?

 

There were four of us setting up at a table. He was far left, I was next to him on the right, 2 guys to my right.

 

From what I understand he wasn't much of a pistol guy. Just familiar with shotguns.

 

He was given a pistol, he loads the mag, racks it, and puts it in a holster. I was not next to him at that point. I then move to his right side and 30 seconds later someone tells him. "Hey your gun is cocked". He pulls out the gun and starts messing with it. At this point I do not like his body language at all. I say "Im gonna be over here" and step about 15 feet away. I see him messing with the pistol. Next thing I know. BAM. Then someone says. "You what? You shot yourself?"

 

So what he did was rack the gun again to remove the round from the chamber. However he didn't remove the magazine first and loaded another live round into the chamber (Combo of not thinking and unfamiliararity in my opinion). When he racked the slide he grabbed it tight, his hand was slightly covering the end of the barrel. (Hard to explain without showing). After loading the second live round into the chamber he had his finger inside the trigger guard and BOOM. Shot the edge of his hand while his left hand was still on the gun. Luckily he had it pointed at the ground and away from everyone.

 

It blew a half circle hole in the edge of his hand and left some raw meat exposed. Powder burn surrounding the area. If the round went thru his hand 3/4 of an inch higher up it would have prob hit bone. This happened on the blade of his hand. Very, very lucky guy.

 

When I look back I wonder if I should have helped him with the gun. I honestly don't know. First off it was a gun I was not familiar with. Secondly I didn't know if he was or was experienced with handguns. I assumed he was since he brought his own shotgun. I was wrong I guess. I have no idea what made me decide to move away from him. I just had a really bad feeling. Unfortunatly I was right.

While the muzzle was rising a bit, he did display a ton more control than the guy who shot himself in the OP.

Very, very lucky guy.

 

Very, very lucky you.

Very, very lucky you.

 

That too, If I was on the left of him I think it would have hit me about knee level. I would not have been happy.

3. Suppression fire. Since most of us will never need that, the first two become quite a bit more meaningful.

 

Absolutely suppression fire is good use of full-auto. But I look at that as part of spraying and praying.

That too, If I was on the left of him I think it would have hit me about knee level. I would not have been happy.

 

Your moving away was you listening to your instinct called fear. Fear is good, it keeps us safe. Listen to fear, but don't be ruled by it. The book, The Gift of Fear by Gavin DeBecker explains it all.

While the muzzle was rising a bit, he did display a ton more control than the guy who shot himself in the OP.

 

by the way, I sure the store isn't the only kinda dicks she likes. LOL LMFAO.............

by the way, I sure the store isn't the only kinda dicks she likes. LOL LMFAO.............

B) I say nothing.

I was wondering what you were talking about but then I remembered my signature.. heh.

considering he was being told to hold the gun tight, seems he was a first time shooter or someone new to it.

 

Probably his friends gun.

B) I say nothing.

 

I did Dick's for lunch today. Don't ask, don't tell...(good sale on shotgun shells).

He still had the gun, what was laying on the ground was the forward assist.

 

 

I thought a forward assist was something on AR series rifles put in place to try to overcome their "jam o matic" nature..

It is. He meant foregrip. There was a foregrip installed on the Glock's dust cover to try and help control the weapon. Unfortunately the rail was never intended for that purpose and the shooter managed to torque the foregrip off the rail under recoil while still having the happy switch depressed. Not alot of margin for error with something that small on full auto, when your off hand is that close to the muzzle lending support...

It is. He meant foregrip. There was a foregrip installed on the Glock's dust cover to try and help control the weapon. Unfortunately the rail was never intended for that purpose and the shooter managed to torque the foregrip off the rail under recoil while still having the happy switch depressed. Not alot of margin for error with something that small on full auto, when your off hand is that close to the muzzle lending support...

 

ha that thing is pretty solid.. for a light or laser... but I agree not a whole lot of meat there to actually secure something like a grip to..

it looks like he broke the fwd assist and his hand was in the firing line. Am I wrong?

 

Nope you are 100% correct. the rail on a Glock is designed ONLY to hold a light, it is not intended to be used as a mount for a VFG. the VFG broke off of the rail and hos off-hanf drifted up in front of the muzzle. Stupid Games, Stupid Prizes. The covnersion unit is a littke dingus that replaces the back plate along with a couple of the internal parts and makes it select-fire. IIRC they werent developed until after the 86 Registration moratorium, so there are none available for transfer. Scott, there ARE some useful venues for the Machine Pistol, however they are usually designed for use with a Stock, which was available with the actual Glock 18, and the Beretta 93-R. The Beretta also had a fold-down fore grip that made it much more controllable.

I thought a forward assist was something on AR series rifles put in place to try to overcome their "jam o matic" nature..

Nothing to do with that. the Forward Assist was one of the Army's requirements that turned the original "AR-15" from Armalite INTO the M-16. Since the previous Rifles had exposed bolt handles (M-1Garand, M-1 Carbine, M-14) the Army require the forward assist to push the bolt into battery if it got hung up on fouling or mud, or sand. It was the other Army requirements, mainly the use of "Ball" typr Powder, that caused the original problems with the M-16A1, not to mention the HUGELY negligent practice of not issuing Cleaning Kits to the guys in the field. Powder residue from the Ball powder was denser and more hydroscopic than the Stick-type that the rifle was developed to use, and in the much more humid climate in SEA, it clogged up the rifles, and with no cleaning kits, the problems just expanded. Simple fact is the SEALs, and USAF that were using the Armalite Ar-15's NEVER had the issues that the Army and Marines did with the M-16's

Nothing to do with that. the Forward Assist was one of the Army's requirements that turned the original "AR-15" from Armalite INTO the M-16. Since the previous Rifles had exposed bolt handles (M-1Garand, M-1 Carbine, M-14) the Army require the forward assist to push the bolt into battery if it got hung up on fouling or mud, or sand. It was the other Army requirements, mainly the use of "Ball" typr Powder, that caused the original problems with the M-16A1, not to mention the HUGELY negligent practice of not issuing Cleaning Kits to the guys in the field. Powder residue from the Ball powder was denser and more hydroscopic than the Stick-type that the rifle was developed to use, and in the much more humid climate in SEA, it clogged up the rifles, and with no cleaning kits, the problems just expanded. Simple fact is the SEALs, and USAF that were using the Armalite Ar-15's NEVER had the issues that the Army and Marines did with the M-16's

 

 

I was partially joking... but none the less way more info than I ever knew..

I meant the guy who shot himself with the .45.

I think after reading babaganoosh's response, my answer still applies; carelessness or stupidity. Lol

Full auto is good for two things:

1. Missing your target

2. Running out of ammo

And wasting money!

Nope you are 100% correct. the rail on a Glock is designed ONLY to hold a light, it is not intended to be used as a mount for a VFG. the VFG broke off of the rail and hos off-hanf drifted up in front of the muzzle. Stupid Games, Stupid Prizes. The covnersion unit is a littke dingus that replaces the back plate along with a couple of the internal parts and makes it select-fire. IIRC they werent developed until after the 86 Registration moratorium, so there are none available for transfer. Scott, there ARE some useful venues for the Machine Pistol, however they are usually designed for use with a Stock, which was available with the actual Glock 18, and the Beretta 93-R. The Beretta also had a fold-down fore grip that made it much more controllable.

 

I know there are uses for MP's, which are designed for that purpose and for use with two hands. I'd take one in a tight crowded / confined space with a suppressor for short engagements. An automatic Glock in a standard format, the only use is to become a YouTube legend. I still lean towards a real compact AR in a rifle caliber. Them pistol rounds have a lot of limitations.

I thought a forward assist was something on AR series rifles put in place to try to overcome their "jam o matic" nature..

:facepalm: My mistake. I was drawing a HUGE blank, and referred to the previous post which said "forward assist"......and for whatever reason it just made sense and I said it without even thinking. Jesus I need to get more sleep

The forward assist slipped off, recoil put his assist

hand in the line of fire.

 

correct. watched it over and over.

 

 

Shock and awe appear before pain...

 

yup, that's gonna hurt in the morning.

 

 

While the muzzle was rising a bit, he did display a ton more control than the guy who shot himself in the OP.

 

not really, he basically showed that it should be shot in bursts.

I was partially joking... but none the less way more info than I ever knew..

 

most people dont realize that a "Real" AR-15 is ACTUALLY a Machinegun, select fire. I've shot a few of them that have belonged to some depts in the state since the 1960's..some of which have 3-digit serial numbers.

I D I O T